PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn


Status
Not open for further replies.
My ideal off-season:
- sign Butler long-term
- compensate Edelman in a way that doesn't feel exploitative
- don't pay Gilmore near that much
- Keep Long, Ryan, Blount, Bennett
- find a way to rest Brady the first 4 games at least
- More undrafted free-agent types, or overlooked prodigies (get players the sports announcers haven't heard of or say are "journeymen" - the fact the sports announcers are trumpeting the talent of our picks is actually a very bad sign)
- more OL signings
- something positive in DE.

The first three of these items, taken together, cannot be good for team chemistry. The idea that Gilmore is making multiples of the combined salaries of Edelman and Butler just doesn't feel right with me.


Not for now, but I don't think Gronk is likely to remain healthy into the playoffs. Same with Brady: even if he looks good now, I'd rather not bet the team on new discoveries in sports science: let the guy rest a few games to start the season.

I can't stand it...
 
Isnt it odd that this poster Kdog just came from out of nowhere with these ridiculous and irritating posts about how the pats fuked up with this and fuked up with that and its not working out this year an this team is not like last years team etc etc. Hmmmmmm kinda suspicious. I did a little research.

Just coincidentally there is a KDog - DieHard Ravens Fan and known Pats hater. He posts on every site he can

ravens board purple flock
Purple Flock Dynasty League

boards.baltimoreravens.com › Ravens Talk › Ravens Talk
May 10, 2012 - 7 posts - ‎5 authors
Hall of Famer; K-Dog; Members; 10,315 posts; Millersville Maryland. Posted May 10, 2012 · Report post. Okay, correct me if I am wrong but we ...

ravens blogs
blogs.baltimoreravens.com/.../late-for-work-926-good-thing-ravens-didn’t-trade-willi...Ravens Flock member K-Dog doesn't see it having a negative effect on the offense. “What's the worst that can happen?” K-Dog asked. “Mase pouts and doesnt ...

chargers board post 19
Ravens/Patriots Breakdown... - Page 2 - The Official Los Angeles Chargers Forum

his profile on the Texans board
User Profile - Houston Texans Message Boards

tapatalk forum post 5
GJ helpful Elves thread.... to help the SS. - Tapatalk

talkleft forum about 6 posts down
Sunday Morning Open Thread - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

hollyrollerz form 9 posts down
need info about lowering springs etc........ • Holy Rollerz Christian Automotive Forums

garagejournal post 16
My Ravens Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver - The Garage Journal Board

He has also posted on these forums:

Footballbyke
BIG BALLER kdog 09/08/2017 04:07. i haven't been this hard for almost a year now #footballbyke https:// twitter.com/tomgarfinkel/s tatus/895314261743853568

Progmetalzone
Marshawn Lynch retires at 29 · K Dog. 2016-02-19 ... Just so you know I am not a ravens fan when they won the Super Bowl I was a ... @TheBuzzer. 2016-02-08 .

VintageBMXcom
K-Dog. May 13 2008, 07:44 PM. I am die hard and loyal Baltimore RAVENS fan. The last few seasons have been a roller coaster 13-3 two ..

gmoneysack
Dec 31, 2014 - ... a weirdo Martavis Bryant monster game, K-Dog will ride Luck, Murray, ...... We can't all be as lucky as Ravens fan what with their BRAH head ...

notey.com
www.notey.com/blogs/prank-calls?page=3K-Dog decided to start off the call by pretending to be a smitten female fan and his .... who described himself as a second-season diehard Ravens fan from Utah.

bootsalefr.com
www.bootsalefr.com/?NFL_Baltimore_Ravens_Auto_Accessories...
Rating: 3.9 - ‎14 reviews
... everyone on the road is aware of your status as the #1 Baltimore Ravens fan. ... By K-dog. from Panama City Beach, FL. Verified Buyer. Comment about: A ...

chatsports
www.chatsports.com/.../the-phinsider-contributors-week-17-straight-up-winners-picks...Jan 1, 2017 - James and I were each 11-5, with Kdog 10-6, SUTTON 8-8, and Duke ... Baltimore Ravens at Cincinnati Bengals ... CIN: Kevin, James, Kdog ..
 
Isnt it odd that this poster Kdog just came from out of nowhere with these ridiculous and irritating posts about how the pats fuked up with this and fuked up with that and its not working out this year an this team is not like last years team etc etc. Hmmmmmm kinda suspicious. I did a little research.

Just coincidentally there is a KDog - DieHard Ravens Fan and known Pats hater. He posts on every site he can

ravens board purple flock
Purple Flock Dynasty League

boards.baltimoreravens.com › Ravens Talk › Ravens Talk
May 10, 2012 - 7 posts - ‎5 authors
Hall of Famer; K-Dog; Members; 10,315 posts; Millersville Maryland. Posted May 10, 2012 · Report post. Okay, correct me if I am wrong but we ...

ravens blogs
blogs.baltimoreravens.com/.../late-for-work-926-good-thing-ravens-didn’t-trade-willi...Ravens Flock member K-Dog doesn't see it having a negative effect on the offense. “What's the worst that can happen?” K-Dog asked. “Mase pouts and doesnt ...

chargers board post 19
Ravens/Patriots Breakdown... - Page 2 - The Official Los Angeles Chargers Forum

his profile on the Texans board
User Profile - Houston Texans Message Boards

tapatalk forum post 5
GJ helpful Elves thread.... to help the SS. - Tapatalk

talkleft forum about 6 posts down
Sunday Morning Open Thread - TalkLeft: The Politics Of Crime

hollyrollerz form 9 posts down
need info about lowering springs etc........ • Holy Rollerz Christian Automotive Forums

garagejournal post 16
My Ravens Snap-on ratcheting screwdriver - The Garage Journal Board

He has also posted on these forums:

Footballbyke
BIG BALLER kdog 09/08/2017 04:07. i haven't been this hard for almost a year now #footballbyke https:// twitter.com/tomgarfinkel/s tatus/895314261743853568

Progmetalzone
Marshawn Lynch retires at 29 · K Dog. 2016-02-19 ... Just so you know I am not a ravens fan when they won the Super Bowl I was a ... @TheBuzzer. 2016-02-08 .

VintageBMXcom
K-Dog. May 13 2008, 07:44 PM. I am die hard and loyal Baltimore RAVENS fan. The last few seasons have been a roller coaster 13-3 two ..

gmoneysack
Dec 31, 2014 - ... a weirdo Martavis Bryant monster game, K-Dog will ride Luck, Murray, ...... We can't all be as lucky as Ravens fan what with their BRAH head ...

notey.com
www.notey.com/blogs/prank-calls?page=3K-Dog decided to start off the call by pretending to be a smitten female fan and his .... who described himself as a second-season diehard Ravens fan from Utah.

bootsalefr.com
www.bootsalefr.com/?NFL_Baltimore_Ravens_Auto_Accessories...
Rating: 3.9 - ‎14 reviews
... everyone on the road is aware of your status as the #1 Baltimore Ravens fan. ... By K-dog. from Panama City Beach, FL. Verified Buyer. Comment about: A ...

chatsports
www.chatsports.com/.../the-phinsider-contributors-week-17-straight-up-winners-picks...Jan 1, 2017 - James and I were each 11-5, with Kdog 10-6, SUTTON 8-8, and Duke ... Baltimore Ravens at Cincinnati Bengals ... CIN: Kevin, James, Kdog ..

You are putting way more work into this than his drivel deserves..
 
My ideal off-season:
- sign Butler long-term
- compensate Edelman in a way that doesn't feel exploitative
- don't pay Gilmore near that much
- Keep Long, Ryan, Blount, Bennett
- find a way to rest Brady the first 4 games at least
- More undrafted free-agent types, or overlooked prodigies (get players the sports announcers haven't heard of or say are "journeymen" - the fact the sports announcers are trumpeting the talent of our picks is actually a very bad sign)
- more OL signings
- something positive in DE.

- sign Butler long-term

It takes two. Sometimes contracts don't work out. I think we'd all like to see Butler here for the long haul, but to suggest that the team is lacking fortitude and cohesion due to contract holdups seems like a stretch.

- compensate Edelman in a way that doesn't feel exploitative

Edelman is one of the most involved individuals on the entire team. He loves the Boston community. How in the world do you arrive at the idea that his contract "feels exploitative" when you're not privy to his thought-process or the contract negotiations? He's happy here. He doesn't want to play anywhere else. He's on a team-friendly contract, but so what?

- don't pay Gilmore near that much

Have you seen the corner contracts given out since his deal? He's actually under market value for a top end corner now, and he's still a young, durable player with upside.

- Keep Long, Ryan, Blount, Bennett

Long wanted to leave. He didn't like his role here, although he was a good soldier and did what was asked of him in order to win a championship. He wasn't going to stay.

Ryan wanted to be the man. He's now the number one corner with the Titans. Meanwhile, his position has been upgraded here.

Blount was great for rushing touchdowns, but he was one-dimensional. We've added players who can run or catch, and who out-performed him on a per-rush basis last year. It happens.

Bennett was fantastic for us last year. He ended up going elsewhere. It happens. You can't denigrate the team's chemistry and "specialness factor" because a player decided to play in another market.

My vision for the offseason was different to the team's, too, but I understand everything that they've done, and I don't pretend to have superior knowledge.

- find a way to rest Brady the first 4 games at least

And here you lose credibility. Why in the world would we voluntarily sit out our best player? He is playing as well as ever, taking good care of his body, and gives us the best chance at winning. Not playing him is tantamount to throwing games. It's the exact opposite of everything that Belichick has always preached. The only time he sits out starters is week 17 when HFA is already decided. I'm starting to feel like I'm wasting my time responding.

- More undrafted free-agent types, or overlooked prodigies (get players the sports announcers haven't heard of or say are "journeymen" - the fact the sports announcers are trumpeting the talent of our picks is actually a very bad sign)

Your research is poorly established. We signed the largest (or second largest) UDFA class in Belichick's history with the team. Many of them came highly touted, and the team paid unprecedented amounts of guaranteed money to sign them (Langi, Hollister, etc). I am a strong believer in our rookie players, and you can see many months of posts about them in the draft sub-forum; over half of the players we brought in are players that I scouted and documented as solid fits for the Patriots.

Also, please explain this statement: " . . . the fact the sports announcers are trumpeting the talent of our picks is actually a very bad sign." It seems like there's a logical disconnect here.

- more OL signings

Sure, we'd all love better OL depth. We did draft two tackles, and added more in UDFA. Our starters are fine, when healthy, and Karras at the very least appears to have stepped up this year to be the top IOL multi-position backup. Who was available in FA at reasonable cost who would have upgraded this team?

- something positive in DE.

Sky is blue, water is wet, blah blah blah. That's not a plan; that's just idle grandstanding. Of course we'd like an answer at DE. Well, we acquired several DL/Edge/LB types in FA, trades, the draft, and UDFA. For various reasons, largely injury-related, they haven't all panned out yet. Yet. It's still preseason. You haven't exactly laid out a roadmap of how they can accomplish this upgrade. Armchair roster-building is fun, but it's a stretch to then say that the team is lacking essential factors because they were constrained by reality--which is clearly a not any sort of obstacle for you. ;)


The first three of these items, taken together, cannot be good for team chemistry. The idea that Gilmore is making multiples of the combined salaries of Edelman and Butler just doesn't feel right with me.


Not for now, but I don't think Gronk is likely to remain healthy into the playoffs. Same with Brady: even if he looks good now, I'd rather not bet the team on new discoveries in sports science: let the guy rest a few games to start the season.

My newly-hired upper manager earns more than my entire team put together. Due to concerns over my salary, I'm going to hold out from work . . . oh, wait, no I'm not. I'm an adult, who signed a contract to work for my company, and who values his word. Team chemistry is valuable, sure, but it's a byproduct of mature people who work together, and not a magic formula that's produced by ensuring that no one's feelings are hurt because someone else got paid first.

Injury can always happen, regardless of perfect health and wellness. Brady has been an ironman, but we all remember the disastrous opening day in 2008. Every game is a risk.

"New discoveries" have nothing to do with proper care and maintenance; quarterbacks have played at 40 before, because they take less impact and abuse on most plays. Brady is fanatical about his preventive work and his training. I don't think we've ever seen a player with this much discipline in diet and workout, not to mention with a focus on pliability. Many physical activities can be performed at a high level into middle ages. Football players retire early, usually due to injury or improper training methods, but I've seen first hand how athletes can still produce peak results in their 40s and 50s.

I have no problem with saying, "Well, I would prefer a different offseason approach." When the narrative becomes, instead, "The team made foolish moves that will cost them a championship because of internal strife and a lack of leadership and intelligence," then of course it's met with ridicule, because literally no one can definitively make that pronouncement at this stage other than God. I can rather safely assume that you're not omniscient, however. :p

You may very well be right, in the end. You would be better received, however, if you mentioned concerns or worries, instead of making categorical pronouncements of doom.
 
Last edited:
Be patient, it's early. Allen will catch one before Daylight Savings Time ends. He's catching on...
 
- sign Butler long-term

It takes two. Sometimes contracts don't work out. I think we'd all like to see Butler here for the long haul, but to suggest that the team is lacking fortitude and cohesion due to contract holdups seems like a stretch.
The post you are replying to did not suggest the team is "lacking fortitude and cohesion due to contract holdups". The post you are only replying to (uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn ) just answered some questions from supafly about "How exactly are [things] not working out so far this season?". Therefore I listed things that were not working out. The imputation of criticism isn't supported by the text. In fact, if you read my original post, itsaid nearly the opposite: uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn . This was the post supafly was asking about, when I wrote
kdog said:
I just feel like the planets are not aligned this year
There isn't any criticism of anyone in that comment, just the situation itself.

Have you seen the corner contracts given out since his deal?
I'm not sure other teams have the discipline to double team or trail technique with safety help successfully as well as the Patriots (this failure was Gilmore's most famous play with the Colts).


Also, please explain this statement: " . . . the fact the sports announcers are trumpeting the talent of our picks is actually a very bad sign." It seems like there's a logical disconnect here.
If sports announcers understand why Patriots players are talented, then opposing GMs and head coaches do as well. That means our players have the kind of talent they seek, which means they have the kind of talent they prepare to counter. Conversely, if sports announcers think our players are "journeymen", that means that the nature of their talent isn't understood, which means the other teams won't know how (or have the tools) to counter our players. Thus, our goal should be to get players whose talents are of a kind that sports announcers (and thus opposing coaches) don't appreciate. As soon as too many of our players start getting in Pro Bowls and winning accolades, that's a sign of team decline.
 
Last edited:
The post you are replying to did not suggest the team is "lacking fortitude and cohesion due to contract holdups". The post you are only replying to (uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn ) just answered some questions from supafly about "How exactly are [things] not working out so far this season?". Therefore I listed things that were not working out. The imputation of criticism isn't supported by the text.


I'm not sure other teams have the discipline to double team or trail technique with safety help successfully as well as the Patriots (this failure was Gilmore's most famous play with the Colts).



If sports announcers understand why Patriots players are talented, then opposing GMs and head coaches do as well. That means our players have the kind of talent they seek, which means they have the kind of talent they prepare to counter. Conversely, if sports announcers think our players are "journeymen", that means that the nature of their talent isn't understood, which means the other teams won't know how (or have the tools) to counter our players. Thus, our goal should be to get players whose talents are of a kind that sports announcers (and thus opposing coaches) don't appreciate. As soon as too many of our players start getting in Pro Bowls and winning accolades, that's a sign of team decline.
Are you a Ravens fan? Were you one in the past? Are you, or is any member of your family named John Harbaugh? Come clean, man.
 
I already posted a thread in how Bennett's departure will hurt us. I continue to be profoundly pessimistic about this season, which is starting to remind me more and more of '02.

Did we resign Steve Martin and Donald Hayes?
 
@K. Dog---Reminding you of the 9-7 season from 2002? Lol. You are most certainly Harbaugh, in disguise.
 
"K. Dog, post: 5068408, member: 38085"]The post you are replying to did not suggest the team is "lacking fortitude and cohesion due to contract holdups". The post you are only replying to (uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn ) just answered some questions from supafly about "How exactly are [things] not working out so far this season?". Therefore I listed things that were not working out. The imputation of criticism isn't supported by the text. In fact, if you read my original post, itsaid nearly the opposite: uh-oh Dwayne Allen finds offense very hard to learn . This was the post supafly was asking about, when I wrote

There isn't any criticism of anyone in that comment, just the situation itself.
No it's NOT "the situation" it's just YOUR opinion


I'm not sure other teams have the discipline to double team or trail technique with safety help successfully as well as the Patriots (this failure was Gilmore's most famous play with the Colts).Gilmore never played for the Colts. He was drafted by BUFFALO in 2012. Pesky little facts seem to escape you with regularity



If sports announcers understand why Patriots players are talented, then opposing GMs and head coaches do as well.This is an example of an appeal to probability fallacy. That means our players have the kind of talent they seek, which means they have the kind of talent they prepare to counter. begging the question fallacyConversely, if sports announcers think our players are "journeymen", that means that the nature of their talent isn't understood, which means the other teams won't know how (or have the tools) to counter our players. Pure LSD intoxication now...Thus, our goal should be to get players whose talents are of a kind that sports announcers (and thus opposing coaches) don't appreciate.the Professor Irwin Corey fallacy. As soon as too many of our players start getting in Pro Bowls and winning accolades, that's a sign of team decline.pure genius...just NOT on this planet

Staggering sophistry....
 
If sports announcers understand why Patriots players are talented, then opposing GMs and head coaches do as well. That means our players have the kind of talent they seek, which means they have the kind of talent they prepare to counter. Conversely, if sports announcers think our players are "journeymen", that means that the nature of their talent isn't understood, which means the other teams won't know how (or have the tools) to counter our players. Thus, our goal should be to get players whose talents are of a kind that sports announcers (and thus opposing coaches) don't appreciate. As soon as too many of our players start getting in Pro Bowls and winning accolades, that's a sign of team decline.

75325886684e594703e019804e13eeb5.jpg
 
Interesting factoid from last night:

All the healthy TEs on the roster got snaps. Passing targets, not so much.

Gronk ... 2 (caught one)
O'Shank ... 1/0
Allen ... 0/0
J. Hollister ... 0/0
Cotton ... 0/0

Obviously, Darth Belichick's evil plan all along has been to suddenly de-emphasize TE receiving and to start throwing to RBs out of multiple RB sets all game. </parody of media hot take>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Monday Patriots Notebook 5/6: News and Notes
Tom Brady Sustains, Dishes Some Big Hits on Netflix Roast Special
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo on the Rich Eisen Show From 5/2/24
Patriots News And Notes 5-5, Early 53-Man Roster Projection
New Patriots WR Javon Baker: ‘You ain’t gonna outwork me’
Friday Patriots Notebook 5/3: News and Notes
Thursday Patriots Notebook 5/2: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
Back
Top