Triumphant Return of the Full Back

[Ring 6]

Noted, not sure that it invalidates the fact that Strange looked ok at center. A fullback lead running game is oriented around running over the opponent that would not necessarily be a good fit for Strange at G. Center would be a better fit for him in that kind of offense.

C limits the effectiveness of his agility which may be his biggest strength

 

[Stu Pidassle]

C limits the effectiveness of his agility which may be his biggest strength

You and I have a different understanding of the position. The ability to fire off in either direction after the snap is an important part of being a center.

 

[Ring 6]

You and I have a different understanding of the position. The ability to fire off in either direction after the snap is an important part of being a center.

Sure it is but being agile and mobile and faster is more valuable to a G.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Sure it is but being agile and mobile and faster is more valuable to a G.

It comes down to the system the team will run next year. Strange was drafted in anticipation of going to a WCO scheme where his mobility/agility would be assets at G. He stepped in day one as a rookie and played at a good, if not 1st round worthy, level. My comments on him being a better fit at center are based on the assumption that the team will follow the prototypical JMD offense which is more of a power running game. Strange is a bit undersized as a guard in that scheme where his athleticism at center between two monsters would be an asset.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Teams have made the FB extinct so they can have an extra WR out there. It's a damn shame.

An improved OL and a FB would help clear lanes for Rham who would be a pain in the ass in the open field. He won't out run guys, but he'll throw some guys out of the club.

If the Eagles win the Super Bowl, watch teams copy their formula and try to go old school.

 

[Ring 6]

It comes down to the system the team will run next year. Strange was drafted in anticipation of going to a WCO scheme where his mobility/agility would be assets at G. He stepped in day one as a rookie and played at a good, if not 1st round worthy, level. My comments on him being a better fit at center are based on the assumption that the team will follow the prototypical JMD offense which is more of a power running game. Strange is a bit undersized as a guard in that scheme where his athleticism at center between two monsters would be an asset.

Josh McD offense pulls a lot of Gs.
We just disagree and there appears to be no point going back and forth. Cs playing short area and strength and power are most critical and speed, mobility and agility are better used as a G. Strange seems much better suited to play G. We never anticipated going to a WCO.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Josh McD offense pulls a lot of Gs.
We just disagree and there appears to be no point going back and forth. Cs playing short area and strength and power are most critical and speed, mobility and agility are better used as a G. Strange seems much better suited to play G. We never anticipated going to a WCO.

I don't want to spoil the sentiment of your post and appreciate that it is ok to disagree. Passing along the Google results asking about Matt Patricia and the WCO for context.

Yes, Matt Patricia attempted to implement a West Coast-style offense with the New England Patriots in 2022. However, the results were disappointing.

Explanation
- In 2022, Patricia and Joe Judge tried to modernize the Patriots' offense by incorporating more Shanahan-style elements.

- The Patriots' offense regressed in nearly every category under Patricia's leadership.

- Patricia was promoted to offensive coordinator, but some questioned his qualifications for the role.

 

[Sciz]

after reading all the posts, I am still not convinced.
the production from a player like Ricard, last season, was almost zero. granted, he blocked really well. but can't Sow do as well?
unless the player is outstanding on ST play, I would prefer a TE or OL converting to FB when needed.

It’s about personnel games. McDaniels wants to put heavy personnel on the field to see how the defense matches, and then he wants to line that heavy personnel up in unique alignments to see how the defense lines up. If that means the big run-stuffing LB or an edge rusher out wide on your fullback, then that might be the matchup to target. If you put an offensive lineman out wide, then that’s not a valid receiving option on the play if there’s a defensive player anywhere in the remote vicinity.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It’s about personnel games. McDaniels wants to put heavy personnel on the field to see how the defense matches, and then he wants to line that heavy personnel up in unique alignments to see how the defense lines up. If that means the big run-stuffing LB or an edge rusher out wide on your fullback, then that might be the matchup to target. If you put an offensive lineman out wide, then that’s not a valid receiving option on the play if there’s a defensive player anywhere in the remote vicinity.

I was unsuccessful in digging up the PatsPulpit article which stated the NEP offense averaged more ypc and ypc with Develin on the field. Iirc they weren't big amounts but enough to prove the value of the FB in the run/pass games

 

[Ring 6]

I don't want to spoil the sentiment of your post and appreciate that it is ok to disagree. Passing along the Google results asking about Matt Patricia and the WCO for context.

Yes, Matt Patricia attempted to implement a West Coast-style offense with the New England Patriots in 2022. However, the results were disappointing.

Explanation
- In 2022, Patricia and Joe Judge tried to modernize the Patriots' offense by incorporating more Shanahan-style elements.

- The Patriots' offense regressed in nearly every category under Patricia's leadership.

- Patricia was promoted to offensive coordinator, but some questioned his qualifications for the role.

He did not change to a west coast offense. Really nothing he implemented wasn’t already part of the scheme McDaniels left behind. For example, and the reference to Shanahan, he started out running more zone blocking run schemes (and it didn’t last). But McDaniels had zone run plays. The playbook wasn’t changed, Patricia just call more plays from different sections of it than McDaniels did, and less from others.

Citing articles from people who got that confused doesn’t change it.


Your explanation piece is even factually wrong, Patricia was not offensive coordinator.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

He did not change to a west coast offense. Really nothing he implemented wasn’t already part of the scheme McDaniels left behind. For example, and the reference to Shanahan, he started out running more zone blocking run schemes (and it didn’t last). But McDaniels had zone run plays. The playbook wasn’t changed, Patricia just call more plays from different sections of it than McDaniels did, and less from others.

Citing articles from people who got that confused doesn’t change it.


Your explanation piece is even factually wrong, Patricia was not offensive coordinator.

LOL, I should have know to consult the expert. They definitely tried to implement the WCO, to simplify things after JMD left. Bourne was making comments in camp that they were doing it wrong. Things looked so bad that they regrouped and fell back to most of the previous offense so you are correct about not implementing much new.

 

[JohnJH]

I'm on the fence with Rham. Another year older for a power back that usually don't last in the league more than 5 years (this will be year 4 for him). Plus the 7 fumbles last year is a concern. I am good with penciling him in at RB#1 but I think they should snag a possible replacement in the draft and bring them along the same way he is brought along to replace Harris as the featured back.

Would you trade Stevenson (even if you absorb some of the contract), and sign as a FA Najee Harris? Or, Keep Stevenson for another season and still sign Harris? Just curious.

 

[PatMan]

Yeah, I remember now that Jakob Johnson went off with McDaniels to the Raiders in 2022 and the Pats told him that [with McDaniels gone] they were getting rid of the FB position.

Just to piggyback on this...

They've had a TERRIBLE redzone offense since they eliminated the fullback.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It’s about personnel games. McDaniels wants to put heavy personnel on the field to see how the defense matches, and then he wants to line that heavy personnel up in unique alignments to see how the defense lines up. If that means the big run-stuffing LB or an edge rusher out wide on your fullback, then that might be the matchup to target. If you put an offensive lineman out wide, then that’s not a valid receiving option on the play if there’s a defensive player anywhere in the remote vicinity.

Unless said OL is Nate Solder.

 

[Ring 6]

LOL, I should have know to consult the expert. They definitely tried to implement the WCO, to simplify things after JMD left. Bourne was making comments in camp that they were doing it wrong. Things looked so bad that they regrouped and fell back to most of the previous offense so you are correct about not implementing much new.

McDaniels offense includes many wco concepts. They kept the McDaniel offense. It was widely reported they thinned out the playbook. The playbook didn’t change.

 

[Patsfan1645]

Would you trade Stevenson (even if you absorb some of the contract), and sign as a FA Najee Harris? Or, Keep Stevenson for another season and still sign Harris? Just curious.

With Harris your getting a very similar product with the type of player and same age/years in the league. Another guy that probably has a few years left in the tank. He doesnt seem to have the fumble problem so thats a plus but personally if we are going to move on from Rham I think I look to the draft. I like getting a rookie and letting him develop a year or so as long as Rham doesnt fall off the cliff.

 

[rkarp1]

He did not change to a west coast offense. Really nothing he implemented wasn’t already part of the scheme McDaniels left behind. For example, and the reference to Shanahan, he started out running more zone blocking run schemes (and it didn’t last). But McDaniels had zone run plays. The playbook wasn’t changed, Patricia just call more plays from different sections of it than McDaniels did, and less from others.

Citing articles from people who got that confused doesn’t change it.


Your explanation piece is even factually wrong, Patricia was not offensive coordinator.

this
zone blocking scheme prefers mobile OG's and OC's.
lets also not forget in McD's schemes, we oft saw a younger D Andrews pulling from his OC position.
I also believe with Maye, we will see some designed roll outs, where the OL needs to move as well.
imo, the beauty in the McD hire, is he is able to scheme multiple looks depending on the opponent.

also my opinion, next season we see from left to right;

LT-new player
LG-Robinson
OC-D Andrews
RG-Onwenu
RT-Wallace
Swing OT-Lowe
Swing IOL-Strange, Sow, J Andrews/B Brown

 

[RobertWeathers]

this
zone blocking scheme prefers mobile OG's and OC's.
lets also not forget in McD's schemes, we oft saw a younger D Andrews pulling from his OC position.
I also believe with Maye, we will see some designed roll outs, where the OL needs to move as well.
imo, the beauty in the McD hire, is he is able to scheme multiple looks depending on the opponent.

also my opinion, next season we see from left to right;

LT-new player
LG-Robinson
OC-D Andrews
RG-Onwenu
RT-Wallace
Swing OT-Lowe
Swing IOL-Strange, Sow, J Andrews/B Brown

Gotta sign a solid vet for RT.
Not sold on Layden. Vet for LG
Strange might be your new C

 

[rkarp1]

Gotta sign a solid vet for RT.
Not sold on Layden. Vet for LG
Strange might be your new C

I think the free agent market is going to be tough. most upper echelon options will resign with their current teams.
the left overs, many will struggle with their new teams. we have seen this time again the past 4 years with the Pats free agent OL acquisitions.
that leaves the draft, and unless you are getting studs in rd's 1 & 2, more than likely, with a year in the system, both Wallace and Robinson have the leg up.
I liked what we saw the last few games of the season from Robinson. I also liked the limited time I saw Wallace over the summer. I assume he is completely healthy from his broken leg, and can fully participate in the teams offseason program .

 

[bakes781]

I personally think his height isn't an issue at Center but it's been suggested that Drake's college teammate would be a good fit at FB.