Trent Brown Playing LT and Onwenu at RT with Wynn Still Out

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Because he has experience there from college, and has more of a LG's build than a Tackle's anyway.

Experience and build is what you're going with? I love you but my goodness you're totally clueless. You and the OP need to find another hobby. Don't waste any more of your time Capt.

 

[captain stone]

Experience and build is what you're going with? I love you but my goodness you're totally clueless. You and the OP need to find another hobby. Don't waste any more of your time Capt.

Smarter people than I believed during the draft process that Wynn's best pro position was LG.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Smarter people than I believed that Wynn's best position was LG during the draft process.

Agreed, I was one of those smarter people and was wrong.

 

[captain stone]

Agreed, I was one of those smarter people and was wrong.

Wynn hasn't yet produced enough of a body of work at LT over 3 years to prove you wrong.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Wynn hasn't yet produced enough of a body of work at LT over 3 years to prove you wrong.

He was a top 10 run blocking tackle last year and top 15-16 at pass blocking. No problems in college with injuries, **** happens. He's been hurt but that's life in the NFL.

Moving him to G isn't solving any injury problems/concerns and only canceling out his strengths (footwork-quickness, hands, athleticism)

Also look at some of the injuries. Stuff you can't do anything about.

And as far as anyone is concerned he's not even injured. There's no evidence of that, just ******ed OP that needs attention.

 

[mgteich]

Bring him out for big running plays but conserve his body otherwise. It's better to cherry pick and save Wynn for big leverage plays, than to waste him and have him out when you really need him

$10M a year for a sub on "big running plays". No that's an impressive analysis.

Belichick picked up his 2022 option because he expect Wynn to play LT. That being said, I have no real problem with him STARTING at LG, if Onwenu is thought to be a solid starting RT.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wynn is hurt again? At this point why don't we just bite the bullet and use Wynn as a positional backup? Great to have when he's healthy, but don't put a starting workload on the guy or he WILL break down.

Just don't ask Wynn to do what he clearly can't do. I'd rather have an average starting tackle with Wynn in the wings for big running plays, then not have Wynn because we asked something of him that his body just can't handle and he's out again.

Exactly. It's much worse to have a subpar backup when Wynn is mostly out of the lineup. Just plug him in at LG when he's healthy which is less than a third of the eligible games.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Agreed, I was one of those smarter people and was wrong.

It's nauseating how often this guy self flagellates. Good thing he's been wrong so often and is just an internet armchair keyboard warrior


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[Clonamery]

It's nauseating how often this guy self flagellates. Good thing he's been wrong so often and is just an internet armchair keyboard warrior


.

I guess that would make you an internet armchair.

 

[patfanken]

Wynn hasn't yet produced enough of a body of work at LT over 3 years to prove you wrong.

In an era of Edge rushers who are faster and lighter than ever, the need for LT's with Wynn's skill set become more and more important. LT's rarely face 300lb DE or even 280Lbers for that matter. Just look at the group that were drafted in the first round, most of whom where struggling to get to 260. Now foot speed and quickness is what they look for in edge rushers, and you NEED a LT who can match that kind of athleticism. Wynn has it and has SHOWN it when healthy. That is not to diminish the "when healthy part" for clearly his first 3 years have been injury riddled, but nothing have been serious or chronic. For all we know he might go the next decade without missing a game.

But that is not the issue. The issue is WHO is the best person to play LT for the Pats THIS year, combined with the question of how best to use the available manpower most efficiently. I believe strongly that having Wynn at LT and Brown at RT for these reasons:

a.) Most team slot their best and most explosive edge rusher on the LEFT side to attack the QB's blindside. Consequently it only makes sense to slot your most athletic pass blocker against that threat.

b.) Historically most run games are right handed. I have no idea why this is, but it is. Given that, wouldn't you want to slot your best run blocker to the right side? Brown might be one of the best run blockers in the history of the game. So wouldn't it make good sense to put him there?

c.) Owenu might be the best 6th round steal since Tom Brady. In him the Pats found a Thuney like LG who can dominate the center of the line and be versatile enough to fill in at BOTH tackle positions in a pinch. I don't know who the Capt. wanted to draft in the 6th, instead but I think even HE would say that Bill nailed THAT one. An interior of Owenu, Andrews and Mason will be as good as the OT grouping, especially if Cajuste can even approach his pre-draft potential.

 

[mgteich]

In an era of Edge rushers who are faster and lighter than ever the need for LT's with Wynn's skill set become more and more important. LT's rarely face 300lb DE or even 280Lbers for that matter. Just look at the group that were drafted in the first round most of whom where struggling to get to 260. No foot speed and quickness is what they look for in edge rushers now and you NEED a LT who can match that kind of athleticism. Wynn has it and has SHOWN it when healthy, That is not to diminish the "when healthy part" for clearly his first 3 years have been injury riddled, but nothing have been serious or chronic. For all we know he might go the next decade without missing a game.

But that is not the issue. The issue is WHO is the best person to play LT for the Pats THIS year, combined with the question of how best to use the available manpower most efficiently. I believe strongly that having Wynn at LT and Brown at RT for these reasons.

a. Most team slot their best and most explosive edge rusher on the LEFT side to attack the QB's blindside. Consequently it only makes sense to slot your most athletic pass blocker against that threat.

b. historically most run games are right handed. I have no idea why this is, but it is. Given that wouldn't you want to slot your best run blocker to the right side. Brown might be one of the best run blockers in the history of the game. So wouldn't it make good sense to put him there.

c. Owenu might be the best 6th round steal since Tom Brady. In him the Pats found a Thuney like LG who can dominate the center of the line and be versatile enough to fill in at BOTH tackle positions in a pinch. I don't know who the Capt. wanted to draft in the 6th, instead but I think even HE would say that Bill nailed THAT one. An interior of Owenu Andrews and Mason will be as good as the OT grouping, especially if Cajuste can even approach his predraft potential

I agree that Belichick and the staff are very happy with their starting 5 at their present positions. We also have a starter as an interior backup.

It is good there is lots of camp this year. We need to find our backups at OT. Not having a swing OT is a serious problem, which belichick chose not to address earlier than the 6th, so one must believe that he thinks that someone will step up: Cajuste, Herron, Cunningham or Sherman

 

[Simpelton]

$10M a year for a sub on "big running plays". No that's an impressive analysis.

Sunk cost - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The important thing with Wynn is how to get the most out of him now. The money is spent. We're not getting it back. How do we get as much value as possible for the money we spent? Forcing him into a role that history suggests he can't handle seems like a poor way to recoup value, especially because his likelihood to be available goes down and down and down as the important games at the end of the season come around.

All games are not created equal. the last 4 games of the regular season are far higher leverage games than the first 4. So if a guy can't handle startin 17+ games, and Wynn has never shown he can handle this, you need to reflect that in when you choose to use him and when you choose to rest him.

Better to use Wynn sparingly and have him available in the playoffs then abuse him early and lose him late. Similar to the way we used Steve Grogan back in the day.

And yeah, I still have my eyes on the playoffs. It's the preseason. We had a good offseason and a good draft. We absolutely should have playoff ambitions at this point and plan our roster accordingly.

if Wynn starts 5 games in the regular season and every playoff game we play that's better value for money than starting 8+ games in the regular season and then being on the IR at the end of the campaign when the leverage value of the games couldn't be higher

 

[DropKickFlutie]

a. Most team slot their best and most explosive edge rusher on the LEFT side to attack the QB's blindside. Consequently it only makes sense to slot your most athletic pass blocker against that threat.

b. historically most run games are right handed. I have no idea why this is, but it is. Given that wouldn't you want to slot your best run blocker to the right side. Brown might be one of the best run blockers in the history of the game. So wouldn't it make good sense to put him there.

1. Yes but you're going to have blowhards here still try to argue that the game has changed and that the fastest edge rusher isn't necessarily on the left side anymore.

2. I agree with everything you said, it makes total sense. Wynn is quick. Would have zero issue if Wynn actually played most of his games and stayed healthy. But he has missed 70% of his NFL games out of 48 games. This is a problem if we end up with a total backup scrub playing tackle because Wynn is out.

3. Trent Brown is a massive human being but he's surprisingly an elite pass blocker and a mediocre run blocker. Bad teams (Oakland) mistakenly keep putting him at RT where he isn't great. At LT he was elite protecting the blind side for the Pats in 2018.

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[DropKickFlutie]

This article notes the OLine backups are not good and very thin in talent. Karras is the only decent one and he plays in the interior of OLine. Herron is garbage. So if Wynn goes down again they should just stay with:
Brown-Karras-Andrews-Mason-Onwenu.
And sub in Wynn at LG when Wynn is occasionally healthy.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Sunk cost - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The important thing with Wynn is how to get the most out of him now. The money is spent. We're not getting it back. How do we get as much value as possible for the money we spent? Forcing him into a role that history suggests he can't handle seems like a poor way to recoup value, especially because his likelihood to be available goes down and down and down as the important games at the end of the season come around.

All games are not created equal. the last 4 games of the regular season are far higher leverage games than the first 4. So if a guy can't handle startin 17+ games, and Wynn has never shown he can handle this, you need to reflect that in when you choose to use him and when you choose to rest him.

Better to use Wynn sparingly and have him available in the playoffs then abuse him early and lose him late. Similar to the way we used Steve Grogan back in the day.

And yeah, I still have my eyes on the playoffs. It's the preseason. We had a good offseason and a good draft. We absolutely should have playoff ambitions at this point and plan our roster accordingly.

if Wynn starts 5 games in the regular season and every playoff game we play that's better value for money than starting 8+ games in the regular season and then being on the IR at the end of the campaign when the leverage value of the games couldn't be higher

Good point on the 17 game season. Even more unlikely Wynn holds up all year. We can't have an OLine fall apart because Herron has to step in at LT. Brown at LT and Onwenu at RT and don't bank your whole OLine setup around the most injury prone guy (Wynn)

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[DropKickFlutie]

And yet the Patriots chose to pick up his fifth-year option, which means his salary for next season is fully guaranteed now.

More a function of his position, LTs are valuable even super injury-prone ones, and few good options in FA. Doubt he's extended again if he doesn't play a full season.

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[RobertWeathers]

I would have thought he would played guard by now if he was ever going to. Also the fact Bill picked up his 5th year option only to pay a guard over $10 mill makes me think he will stay at tackle but you never know. Regardless I wouldn't mind them investing in a veteran swing tackle for when Wynn inevitably gets hurt.

They paid Shaq and Thuney big money to play G. Don't think price matters much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yep, still the best possible combination: Brown - Wynn - Andrews - Mason - Onwenu.

Yea I think it's better than 50/50. Those 5 are the best lineman on the team. Play the best.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I agree that Belichick and the staff are very happy with their starting 5 at their present positions. We also have a starter as an interior backup.

It is good there is lots of camp this year. We need to find our backups at OT. Not having a swing OT is a serious problem, which belichick chose not to address earlier than the 6th, so one must believe that he thinks that someone will step up: Cajuste, Herron, Cunningham or Sherman

The last sentence here is key. When Wynn goes down again, it will be catastrophic for the Oline if they try to start one of these bad backups at tackle. Or, alternatively keep playing switcheroo on Onwenu and mess the kid's career up.

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[patfanken]

This article notes the OLine backups are not good and very thin in talent. Karras is the only decent one and he plays in the interior of OLine. Herron is garbage. So if Wynn goes down again they should just stay with:
Brown-Karras-Andrews-Mason-Onwenu.
And sub in Wynn at LG when Wynn is occasionally healthy.

.

Do you even read any of analysis of Whynn;s play? I would bet not. then such idiocy wouldn't be coming out in your posts. The issue of Whynn's not playing as much as we would like IS legitimate. The complaints about it are NOT! Wynn never had an issue in college. None of his injuries have be caused by anything chronic. Its just the sh!t that happens in the NFL. A good example is Coltin Miller who a lot of guys thought might be a good pick at the end of the first round in 18, He literally SUCKED his first year both on the field and with injuries. He wasn't much better in 19 but he did improve. Last year he improved a LOT and goes into the season as a guy who looks like he can be the starting LT for the Raiders for a long time.

Its is very rare for a .offensive lineman to come into the league and shine in their first year, So you comments on Herron are particularly bad.