"Top Ten NFL Teams" on NFLN... spoiler...

[drewskie]

I could probably come up with 20 teams off the top of my head that were "better" than the '72 Dolphins, including numerous SB losers. And we're not talking obvious historical dominance either. For instance, I'd take the 2004 Eagles, 2013 Seattle, 2014 NE, 2002 Bucs, 1996 Packers (by a country mile), 1999 and 2001 Rams all over the Phins, just to name a few.

Would be interesting to do an in depth analysis between the greatness of the 85 bears defense versus the great ones that come to mind 2000 - present:

2000 Baltimore Ravens

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2006 Baltimore Ravens (an underrated defense historically because while they werent beating you by going vanilla like in 2000, the personnel they had to scheme was incredible looking at Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, Haloti Ngata, Trevor Pryce, etc.)

2012 San Francisco 49ers (Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Dashon Goldson)

2013 Seattle Seahawks

2015 Denver Broncos

And as much of an ******* that Marshall Faulk is, I fully recognize how good the 1999-2001 Rams were, as they lacked a defense in the 2000 season in particular.

An underrated team historically was the 1998 Minnesota Vikings. Had their kicker not missed that FG to go up 2 scores, it would have been a much more interesting SB 33 between Denver and Minnesota.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Would be interesting to do an in depth analysis between the greatness of the 85 bears defense versus the great ones that come to mind 2000 - present:

2000 Baltimore Ravens

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2006 Baltimore Ravens (an underrated defense historically because while they werent beating you by going vanilla like in 2000, the personnel they had to scheme was incredible looking at Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, Haloti Ngata, Trevor Pryce, etc.)

2012 San Francisco 49ers (Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Dashon Goldson)

2013 Seattle Seahawks

2015 Denver Broncos

And as much of an ******* that Marshall Faulk is, I fully recognize how good the 1999-2001 Rams were, as they lacked a defense in the 2000 season in particular.

An underrated team historically was the 1998 Minnesota Vikings. Had their kicker not missed that FG to go up 2 scores, it would have been a much more interesting SB 33 between Denver and Minnesota.

That 98 Vikings team was so good and sooooooooo fun to watch. I fell in love with Randy about 2 years prior. The impact he had on the game was just huge. I remember Dungy talking abt coming up with variations of C2 to stop him.

Randy really took that team to another level but needed a General to follow and got Green.

Man Griffin, Randle, Moss, Carter, Reed and Smith were so fun to watch.

WR'S are interchangeable but Randy was the exception.

Fookin 38/39 yarder and Anderson shanked it. First miss all year I believe.

 

[goheels22002]

To be fair, Don Shula craps himself every 2 hours these days.

One can never overrate regularity.

 

[lancerman]

I mean, no. No, it's actually not. Once all the games are played - strength of schedule is the exact opposite of 'malleable'.



I mean, it sounds more like a Manning/Rodgers fanboy kind of thing to me - but again, the facts are, the Patriots beat top-10 offenses and defenses that year (2016), in some cases teams with both (in Pittsburgh's case, twice), and a historically great offense was held to 21 points and 344 yards in the Super Bowl.

Losing the to the Packers really doesn't hold much weight to me as a positive.

That's debateable. The league isn't as strong from year to year. How many teams did we play in 2016's regular season that were even close to the team's I mentioned already? Like did we play a single team in the 2016 regular season that was as good as that Packer team?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Would be interesting to do an in depth analysis between the greatness of the 85 bears defense versus the great ones that come to mind 2000 - present:

2000 Baltimore Ravens

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2006 Baltimore Ravens (an underrated defense historically because while they werent beating you by going vanilla like in 2000, the personnel they had to scheme was incredible looking at Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, Haloti Ngata, Trevor Pryce, etc.)

2012 San Francisco 49ers (Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Dashon Goldson)

2013 Seattle Seahawks

2015 Denver Broncos

And as much of an ******* that Marshall Faulk is, I fully recognize how good the 1999-2001 Rams were, as they lacked a defense in the 2000 season in particular.

An underrated team historically was the 1998 Minnesota Vikings. Had their kicker not missed that FG to go up 2 scores, it would have been a much more interesting SB 33 between Denver and Minnesota.

Even though the offense was in the spotlight those 49er defenses of the 80s were consistently in the top 5 and #1 a couple of times.

1986 and 1990 Giants defenses were also very, very good.

All the other defenses you mention were also special. Especially that 2000 Ravens and 2002 Bucs D.

I'm not an expert on NFL defenses but based on the "eye test" from watching this dumb league for 35 years I have yet to see a team attack the line of scrimmage, QBs and ballcarriers as viciously as that 1985 Bears team. Other defenses may have been statistically better but my god. If I was a running back or a QB on a 5 step drop, I'd be scared ****less. They were just so punishing.

I think defense is harder to play now than it was then so from 2004 so we need to take that into account but at the end of the day as long as there is talent and a good coach, a good defense can stand the test of time.

 

[Oswlek]

An underrated team historically was the 1998 Minnesota Vikings. Had their kicker not missed that FG to go up 2 scores, it would have been a much more interesting SB 33 between Denver and Minnesota.

In a marginally related note, I would take both 2009 NFCCG participants over the 1972 Dolphins.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I love to laugh at the expense of Mercury Morris et al., but I'm confused about a team being the greatest evah if it doesn't win the SB.

Also confused by any SB-winning Pats team comparing unfavorably to the 07 team. Love the concept, but they needed to close the door on that season, and they did not. End of story. They had the potential to be the final word in all of football history. They did not complete the mission.

They did, however, succeed in being the only SB-losing team that's remembered before the winner...

"2007... 2007... that's the one the 18-0 Patriots didn't win. Who was that? Oh yeah the Giants."

 

[Art_Vandelay421]

Few thoughts...

1 ~ Comparing our 2003 and 2004 teams has always been tricky. Given theoretical 100% health, I believe that the 2004 team was better. But where do you draw the line between the core team and the team that played the games and finished the season, when you're talking about best of all time? It's a hell of a question.

2 ~ I hate The Infernal Salary Cap, because it's a constant drain on Excellence ~ a forced redistribution of wealth that punishes the organizations that build Depth of Talent. That aside...It feels incomplete, to me, if we don't make some allowance for teams built after the imposition of The Infernal Salary Cap, because it's well nigh impossible to build a truly dominant team, isn't it? The Miners had Steve freaking Young fermenting on the bench for a few years, because the absence of a Salary Cap allowed them to. Given that enormous advantage, it seems unfair to draw a one on one comparison between those Miners, for instance, and the Patriots of the last 17 Years. We're always just One Injury Away, and the reason for that is that it's now impossible to avoid that. So you can say that the 2007 Pats, even, didn't have comparable depth of talent to the 1989 Miners...But we're grading a curve.

3 ~ Along those lines: Considering the horrific dilution of talent that The Infernal Salary Cap imposes, is it possible to quantify how much more difficult it is to win multiple Championships, these days, than it was, before? Just asking. Me, I'd hypothesize that winning 3 Championships in 10 Years is like winning 6 Championships in 10 Pre-Salary Cap Years...but that's just me.

4 ~ Change of subject: I feel honor-bound to mention that any such conversation is not complete without mention of not the 1974, the 1975, the 1978, or the 1979 versions, but of the 1976 PittsBurgh Steelers, the best of any of them.

Whose asses we kicked, by the way!!

The 76 Steeler team was Rooney Sr's favorite team. The defense that year was insane, didn't they have 4-5 shutouts? If I recall Bradshaw got injured and BC's Mike Kruzack ran the offense.

 

[captain stone]

Also, I think in a few years people are going to remember that 2016 team as being much, much better than you recall.

Top 5 offense and defense, undefeated on the road. Didn't have the GOAT for the first 4 games. Greatest comeback in Super Bowl History, destroying their own greatest comeback in Super Bowl History.

It's too fresh in our minds (including mine) to say 'Top 10 Greatest Team of All Time' especially with the echo of 'THEY DIDN'T PLAY ANYONE MIKE!' in our heads (which was actually the 9th hardest schedule in the league, for those interested in facts).

I think in time, 2016 will be thought of as 'wagon' status with 2004 and 2007.

They really were THAT good. We'd just seen it before.

And if one stops to consider, we came very, Very, VERY close to having an undefeated team last season.

 

[1960Pats]

I'm not an expert on NFL defenses but based on the "eye test" from watching this dumb league for 35 years I have yet to see a team attack the line of scrimmage, QBs and ballcarriers as viciously as that 1985 Bears team. Other defenses may have been statistically better but my god. If I was a running back or a QB on a 5 step drop, I'd be scared ****less. They were just so punishing.

In the Pats/Bears game during the season the Pats only crossed midfield once in the entire game. That was on a 75 yard TD run by Craig James. In the NFC playoffs nobody scored a point against the Bears. That defense was beyond dominant.

 

[Uptown]

I could probably come up with 20 teams off the top of my head that were "better" than the '72 Dolphins, including numerous SB losers. And we're not talking obvious historical dominance either. For instance, I'd take the 2004 Eagles, 2013 Seattle, 2014 NE, 2002 Bucs, 1996 Packers (by a country mile), 1999 and 2001 Rams all over the Phins, just to name a few.

2009 Saints.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In the Pats/Bears game during the season the Pats only crossed midfield once in the entire game. That was on a 75 yard TD run by Craig James. In the NFC playoffs nobody scored a point against the Bears. That defense was beyond dominant.

Yep

The Bears/Cowboys 44-0 game is on YouTube. Complete destruction.

 

[Oswlek]

2009 Saints.

Scroll up a few posts.

 

[Uptown]

Scroll up a few posts.

My bad.

 

[PF_SU]

Would be interesting to do an in depth analysis between the greatness of the 85 bears defense versus the great ones that come to mind 2000 - present:

2000 Baltimore Ravens

2002 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

2006 Baltimore Ravens (an underrated defense historically because while they werent beating you by going vanilla like in 2000, the personnel they had to scheme was incredible looking at Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Bart Scott, Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, Haloti Ngata, Trevor Pryce, etc.)

2012 San Francisco 49ers (Patrick Willis, Navorro Bowman, Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Justin Smith, Dashon Goldson)

2013 Seattle Seahawks

2015 Denver Broncos

The question is always how you approach such an analysis. Do you compare absolute number, or do you first take a look at how they performed relative to their competition and then see by how much they were above that competition?

But first things first, I don't think the 2015 Broncos belong into the discussion. Recency and the way the looked during the playoffs make them better than what the numbers say. Compare the Broncos to the average defense of 2015 and they are very good, great perhaps, but hardly historic. That Broncos' defense has a couple of issues going against them being historically great:

a) They weren't great at taking the football away. 27 total turnovers in the regular season, which is 3.7 more than the average D.

b) In part because of that they aren't distancing the opposition by a lot in terms of defensive-only PPG, despite their very good yards per play statistic. 17.1 defensive points allowed compared to 21.2 for the average.

c) Their passer rating allowed is only 9.6 points better than average, which is a far cry from what teams like the 2002 Bucs or 2013 Seahawks did.

Instead it is better to include the 2008 Steelers who are historically great, or even the 2009 Jets.

 

[Schmo]

If you put the 98/99 Broncos up there, just remember that, because of their cheating, the only real way to measure the greatness of those teams is to subtract Elway and Davis from the roster.....seeing as how they weren't actually paid during those years.

Broncos could afford to either build a stadium (which I helped build with my CO state taxes), or cover payroll. Cheating pieces of **** decided they could get both. 98 Broncos should not be anywhere close to this list.... they got to field a roster that they just couldn't afford to pay.

 

[Oswlek]

My bad.

No worries, I was just busting your balls.