Tom Brady: an honest take

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rochrist

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
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And you were shown a previous similar decline and he reversed it. The reality is you just don't know how he will respond next year. The only thing we know for sure is that he continues to break every longevity record there is because what he is doing is unprecedented. How many QBs have had 12 wins in a season at 42? That's the only question that matters.
You don't reverse a decline at age 43. Maintaining otherwise is magical thinking.
 

ensoul

In the Starting Line-Up
You don't reverse a decline at age 43. Maintaining otherwise is magical thinking.
Barkley said it best when describing Kevin Garnett Ray Allen and Paul Pierce saying: (at their age) you don't get healthier in the offseason you get a older.

Yes of course Brady will heal up a bit in the offseason but he's still going to be 43. The offensive struggles aren't all on him but it's a bad combination of him declining, not having a very strong receiver group and the offensive line struggling.

I think he as well as BB wants to move on.
 

Wingy

On the Roster
There is a fine line between winning and losing in the NFL. This is not high school or college. Small declines in performance can lead to huge declines in results.
Agree, I acknowledged as much in a post-game thread post. Basically said that we see worst to first regularly.

We see teams fall really fast too. The pendulum swings both ways. We could theoretically with an off season of elbow recuperation see Brady get a little better than this year (but yes, nowhere near what he has been historically).

The run game has shown signs of life the last few games. Add back Develin/Andrews, and a competent blocking TE...all of a sudden it's a different offense that can marginalize the need for Brady to carry the load as in years past. I'm sure that was the plan this year TBH, but health derailed that idea.

Again - I'll wait for someone to convince me that the hope of a successful retool around a new QB outweighs even a low shot at a Super Bowl next season.
 

TBR

Pro Bowl Player
I just don’t buy the Brady decline. There’s too many other factors including his injury.

When healthy, his arm is perfectly fine and 99% of what it’s always been. What else is there? The mental aspect of playing QB? Am I supposed to believe he just lost several IQ points that make him less great at reading defenses and decision making?
 

Antdawg

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
You don't reverse a decline at age 43. Maintaining otherwise is magical thinking.
It's not even fair to Brady to expect him to rebound at this stage. I expect BB to have a sit down with him next month and tell him "Son, you just don't have it anymore."
 

Antdawg

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
What else is there?
All of these types of posts conveniently omit the fact he'll be 43 and that no QB ever has played good at age 43 and beyond. I would say that's a big "what else" if you ask me.
 

bormio

In the Starting Line-Up
Agree, I acknowledged as much in a post-game thread post. Basically said that we see worst to first regularly.

We see teams fall really fast too. The pendulum swings both ways. We could theoretically with an off season of elbow recuperation see Brady get a little better than this year (but yes, nowhere near what he has been historically).

The run game has shown signs of life the last few games. Add back Develin/Andrews, and a competent blocking TE...all of a sudden it's a different offense that can marginalize the need for Brady to carry the load as in years past. I'm sure that was the plan this year TBH, but health derailed that idea.

Again - I'll wait for someone to convince me that the hope of a successful retool around a new QB outweighs even a low shot at a Super Bowl next season.
I hope they get it together for another run this year, but even if they hoist another Lombardi, I hope Brady retires. Next year won’t be better and will almost certainly be worse. The leaders on the Pats are old - Brady, Edelman, McCourty, Hightower, Slater - and this game is not kind to old men.
 

ensoul

In the Starting Line-Up
It's not even fair to Brady to expect him to rebound at this stage. I expect BB to have a sit down with him next month and tell him "Son, you just don't have it anymore."
The Brady can turn around and say to him the offensive line was a joke for most of the year, we have no right ends and you stuck me with rookie receivers, receives that cannot run routes and when they do run the correct route they drop balls that hit them in the hands.

Like I said Brady declined but BB didn't do him any favors this year either.
 
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SVN

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
The “process” included:

Scouring rehab clinics and Twitter cafes for mentally damaged WRs
Resurrecting an ancient/retired PED sanctioned TE
Trading a #2 for glacially slow / stone handed WR /punt returner (lmfao)

Which part of the process deserved our respect most?
Process of playing out the season instead of counting byes in the 2nd week of the season.
 

robertweathers

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
All of these types of posts conveniently omit the fact he'll be 43 and that no QB ever has played good at age 43 and beyond. I would say that's a big "what else" if you ask me.
Yep.

Warren Moon was a part timer at 42.

Tom just finished a year in which he threw 613 passes and was hit 89 times.

It's year to year with Tom. It's not a knock on him but at this point it's the right outlook to have at this stage in his career.
 

QuantumMechanic

Burn it all down!
PatsFans.com Supporter
One of our players has been in the discussion for DPOY and he had his worst game yesterday ! But yet Brady seems to be getting most the blame , I don't understand that.
Because if, for example, Brady didn’t have such a bad game, the defense would not have been in a hold-or-die situation.

Looking at just the last thing that happened and using only that to place blame and ignoring everything that came before is stupid.
 

Foxypats

Pro Bowl Player
Because if, for example, Brady didn’t have such a bad game, the defense would not have been in a hold-or-die situation.

Looking at just the last thing that happened and using only that to place blame and ignoring everything that came before is stupid.
I did not say that Brady was great, but he was not the only issue yesterday. From the INT to the missed opportunity before the half and the defenses poor play the entire second half there is a lot of blame to go around. My point was that in spite all of that, it was Brady that ultimately gave us a chance to win by getting us the lead and yet most people are blaming him for the loss !
 

Wingy

On the Roster
I hope they get it together for another run this year, but even if they hoist another Lombardi, I hope Brady retires. Next year won’t be better and will almost certainly be worse. The leaders on the Pats are old - Brady, Edelman, McCourty, Hightower, Slater - and this game is not kind to old men.
I hope Brady plays as long as he has the desire, and is productive enough. I won't debate it - the age concern you highlighted is no doubt very real. Just gotta hope that GM Bill helps himself out this offseason with a strong draft class, FA signings (and key re-signings), and hope that some of his current perceived misses pan out...esp. the "red shirt" guys from this class like Williams, Harris, and Cajuste. You could even add Harry to that list due to missed time.
 

dreighver

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I just don’t see rapid drop-off, and the other variables present make evaluation nearly impossible.

We’ve seen Brady go through rough stretches in the past but never chalked it up to age because he was younger at the time.

His poor play this season hasn’t been out of character or different from his poor play in previous seasons.

Struggles with deep balls and timing with new/unfamiliar receivers. Seen that past and present.

Various nicks and dings slowing him down and affecting accuracy at times. Seen that past and present.

Unfamiliar center/line calls leading to a lack of confidence in his protection. Seen that past and present.

And despite all that, he’s still moving well in the pocket and appears to be throwing the ball was sufficient and largely unchanged velocity when compared to the past few seasons. Is his arm as strong as ‘07? Of course not. But is it strong enough to play at a high level, similar to ‘16-‘18? I sure think so.

And Brady’s physical attributes have never been his strength, or what he had success because of; his short-ball accuracy, decision making, incredible intellect/preparation, understanding of the game, and leadership are his winning traits. None of that is going away overnight.

The only way I see this season’s struggles carrying over into a hypothetical future season is if that elbow injury is chronic. But based on Tom’s remarks (still intends to play next season) I doubt it’s a particularly serious, long-term issue.

Again, considering all the variables it’s virtually impossible to make a legitimate evaluation but I feel pretty good about Brady going into next season and I suspect Belichick does too. I expect Brady’ll be back and they’ll retool. Heck, even Belichick has publicly acknowledged that Brady has been limited in practice this season, so he’s surely aware of how his injuries could be affecting his performance.

I strongly believe Brady gives you a better chance of winning than Stidham does for the next 1-2 seasons, and probably a better chance of winning than 90%-95% of NFL QBs.
 
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skinnydog

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I just don’t buy the Brady decline. There’s too many other factors including his injury.

When healthy, his arm is perfectly fine and 99% of what it’s always been. What else is there? The mental aspect of playing QB? Am I supposed to believe he just lost several IQ points that make him less great at reading defenses and decision making?
Yes to the above. Brady of today is not the 2007 version or even the 2014 version. But with a top 10 O-Line and a top 10 receiver group (including the TE position) he is a top 5-7 QB in this league. But this team does not have that. Even with the improvements their O-line is below average. Their receiver group would be lucky to crack the top 20 in the league. Their TEs are at the bottom of the league. If Brady had the same supporting case or even close to what Brees has and was putting up numbers like this, then the Brady critics would have a point. But he does not.
 

condon84

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
It's like people can't comprehend the fact that this guy really is 42 years old lol

Fitz yesterday made great throws to his receivers even though he know he was gonna get nailed. That used to be Brady's signature and what separated him from Peyton. Peyton was always a little b"tch.

If you've been following this team, you should remember the Edelman drops early in his career. Yet Brady kept going to him. Now if Myers or Harry drops a pass, it's like they're a waste of space when they're on the field.

Another thing that is the most significant drop off imo, is he lacks decisiveness. He just doesn't get rid of the ball as quickly. Probably plays into the fact that he locks on to Edelman, who's almost always double teamed and he waits for him to get open. By the time he progresses to another receiver, a defender is in his face and he's not willing to step into his throws and instead ducks out of the way so what you get are throws to the ground.

Again, the guy is 42 years old. I get why he doesn't want part of that anymore. Who wants to get hit by 300lb+ athletic freaks trying to mangle you at his age where injuries hurt a lot more and take a lot longer to heal.

But the idea that everything is fine and there's no change in his play is crazy.

Could he pull a rabit out of his behind and go vintage again in the playoffs? The homer in me says yes, but the end is very near.
 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don't give a damn, I want Brady out there as long as he wants to play. I am all in to the bitter end.

He is one of Boston's Rushmore athletes...up there with Russell, Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, etc...
 

203Pat

In the Starting Line-Up
I don't give a damn, I want Brady out there as long as he wants to play. I am all in to the bitter end.

He is one of Boston's Rushmore athletes...up there with Russell, Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, etc...
I’m in the same boat. I cant help it, I want him here as long as he wants to play football.
 

Bruins29

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I don't give a damn, I want Brady out there as long as he wants to play. I am all in to the bitter end.

He is one of Boston's Rushmore athletes...up there with Russell, Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird, etc...
Bird is not a Boston Mt Rushmore athlete FYI
 

Patriot Missile

Pro Bowl Player
Meh, the good thing about tennis elbow is it can go away on its own completely with rest. Most cases doesn’t require surgery.

At any rate, he can retire when he wants to retire in my book. I know BB doesnt think that way though. Has played for team friendly contracts when he could of broke the bank and team cap, like a lot of others have. Hopefully he comes back in good health and shocks the world though. I wouldn’t put it past him. Pretty sure after the season is over the extent of his elbow or whatever else will be revealed.
 
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