This years draft haul

[VrabelJr]

People have strange memories around here. McCourty wasn't moved to FS because of his deficiency at CB. He was moved to FS because every other of our CBs sucked and moving McCourty to FS immediately made the entire Secondary better. Our secondary in those years were the injured Leigh Bodden, a bad but blossoming Kyle Arrington, the bad version of Patrick Chung trying to play FS, do I need to keep going? I don't think you want me to. It's a Friday and everyone should have a nice day. It was so bad I remember posters around here thinking Alfonzo Dennard could be the next coming of Ty Law.

 

[TheRainMaker]

People have strange memories around here. McCourty wasn't moved to FS because of his deficiency at CB. He was moved to FS because every other of our CBs sucked and moving McCourty to FS immediately made the entire Secondary better. Our secondary in those years were the injured Leigh Bodden, a bad but blossoming Kyle Arrington, the bad version of Patrick Chung trying to play FS, do I need to keep going? I don't think you want me to. It's a Friday and everyone should have a nice day. It was so bad I remember posters around here thinking Alfonzo Dennard could be the next coming of Ty Law.

Let's put this to bed guys/gals:

"He was moved because of injuries at safety to both Patrick Chung and Steve Gregory"

"Drafted out of Rutgers as a cornerback in 2010, McCourty stormed out of the gate as a rookie and finished the season with a league-leading seven interceptions.

However, if 2010 was memorable for McCourty's meteoric rise, the 2011 season was unforgettable for the opposite reason—his crash back down to Earth, as he yielded over 1,000 yards through the air."

They do contradict themselves here though:

"There are some myths about how he ended up there full-time in the first place.

After seeing what he could do at safety in the final part of the 2011 season, there were reports during the 2012 offseason that the Patriots planned to move him there full-time. Those plans didn't pan out, though, with injuries and poor play from other cornerbacks thrusting McCourty back to cornerback.

When the Patriots finally moved him to safety full-time—Week 7 of the 2012 season—it wasn't because McCourty was playing poorly. The stats do a perfectly fine job of outlining that fact:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1848925-devin-mccourty-developing-into-premier-nfl-safety

 

[TheRainMaker]

"Patriots cornerback Devin McCourty was giving up yards at a record rate in 2011.

And then, head coach Bill Belichick moved him to safety. Suddenly, he looked like a changed man. He got his confidence back and helped the team in that role."

"As I've said before, the 2011 season started off slowly after the Patriots started playing press man coverage and McCourty got torched by a couple of top-notch wide receivers. In 2010, McCourty excelled in the off man/zone coverage that Bill Belichick usually employs.

New England did abandon the press coverage after three games, but it appeared too late for McCourty. He struggled regardless of the coverage, and he always seemed to be a step away from making a play."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ourty-line-up-at-cb-or-s-for-patriots-in-2012

 

[TheRainMaker]

"He wasn't doing so great at cornerback this year.

Several times he didn't turn to face the ball when a receiver went up for it. He was called for pass interference penalties - one that led to the winning field goal on the final play of a 31-30 loss to the Baltimore Ravens."

"As a first-round draft choice out of Rutgers, McCourty had seven interceptions as a rookie. But he had just two last season (2011) before some poor games at cornerback this year."

monumental sports network

www.nbcsports.com

 

[BTTA]

You conveniently cut out all of the complimentary things I said about McCourty.

As for your list...

Richard Sherman? We're talking about an all-time great CB here. Not sure why you would put him on this list.
Same with Charles Woodson. He played 14 seasons at CB. 65 career INTs.
And Ronnie Lott. He was a wrecking ball at corner and safety for over a decade. One of the greatest defensive players in the history of the league.
These players are unequivocally grand slam draft picks.

Check their college positions. Lott switched to safety like McCourty did, and you said he was a failure of a draft pick.

 

[crawhammer]

Check their college positions. Lott switched to safety like McCourty did, and you said he was a failure of a draft pick.

Firstly, I said if you're evaluating the selection of McCourty as a CB then you'd have to consider it a failure. As a CB. I'm not talking crazy here, it's pure common sense that if you draft a player at one position and quickly switch him to other position based on performance then the pick didn't work out for the intended position. I'm not saying McCourty failed after he was moved to FS.

You need to research Ronnie Lott's NFL career. He was great at corner and safety. He's an all-time great NFL defender. 10x pro bowler, 6x first team all-pro, all-1980's team, all-1990's team (and he retired after the 1994 season), 4x Super Bowl champion. He's a legend.

 

[PScottman]

Check their college positions. Lott switched to safety like McCourty did, and you said he was a failure of a draft pick.

Firstly, I said if you're evaluating the selection of McCourty as a CB then you'd have to consider it a failure. As a CB. I'm not talking crazy here, it's pure common sense that if you draft a player at one position and quickly switch him to other position based on performance then the pick didn't work out for the intended position. I'm not saying McCourty failed after he was moved to FS.

So on field results are not the measure of a draft pick? Whether or not they play in the position drafted does? Huh?


BTW Edelman was drafted as a QB. Guess he was a terrible pick too then.

 

[crawhammer]

BTW Edelman was drafted as a QB. Guess he was a terrible pick too then.

Edelman entered the draft as a WR, was drafted as a WR, and was never considered for anything else other than a WR.

 

[realtime]

Second team all pro. He's made the pro bowl once since his rookie season. He ultimately wasn't a successful NFL CB, so given that's where he was drafted, the pick failed. He's had a nice career as a FS. But he's not an all-timer or a hall of famer. Good player (at FS) and by all accounts a great teammate and team leader. Probably has a future as a coach if he wants it. Three-time Super Bowl champion has a nice ring to it as well.

First team all-pro (Sporting News).

 

[PScottman]

Edelman entered the draft as a WR, was drafted as a WR, and was never considered for anything else other than a WR.

Not by your twisted logic. I'm just using your own measuring stick.

 

[TheRainMaker]

So on field results are not the measure of a draft pick? Whether or not they play in the position drafted does? Huh?


BTW Edelman was drafted as a QB. Guess he was a terrible pick too then.

No he wasn't. He knew he wasn't going to play QB, so he was already preparing to play multiple positions on offense and defense. He was positionless until he entered camp.

What Bill Belichick Told Julian Edelman When He Drafted Him In 2009 - NESN.com

After three years as the quarterback for the Kent State University Golden Flashes, Julian Edelman knew he had to change positions if he was ever going to make an NFL roster. Prior to the 2009 NFL Draft, Edelman worked tirelessly to be prepared to convert to a third-down back, a wide receiver, or...

nesn.com

First team all-pro (Sporting News).

That's not the official All Pro team.

Not by your twisted logic. I'm just using your own measuring stick.

He played one position. WR.

 

[crawhammer]

First team all-pro (Sporting News).

First team PatsFans.com too. However, there's an official panel of 50 NFL writers and broadcasters who make all-pro selections that are a matter of NFL Record.

Not by your twisted logic. I'm just using your own measuring stick.

It's not my measuring stick. Edelman was drafted as a WR. It happens, some players enter the NFL draft at a position they didn't play in college. McCourty wasn't one of those players... he only switched positions as a pro after the intended one didn't work out.

 

[Brotherblues]

I'm seeing too much emotional investment in Craw grading Strange like a 78 instead of an 80. That's just semantics. Either way we all agree (even Craw) that Strange is already in the upper half of starters at G, with the arrow obviously trending up.

 

[realtime]

First team PatsFans.com too. However, there's an official panel of 50 NFL writers and broadcasters who make all-pro selections that are a matter of NFL Record.

Didn't know patsfans.com all-pros were recognized by the NFL and the HOF. Sporting News all pros are.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Second team all pro. He's made the pro bowl once since his rookie season. He ultimately wasn't a successful NFL CB, so given that's where he was drafted, the pick failed. He's had a nice career as a FS. But he's not an all-timer or a hall of famer. Good player (at FS) and by all accounts a great teammate and team leader. Probably has a future as a coach if he wants it. Three-time Super Bowl champion has a nice ring to it as well.


I'm not grading on an Isaiah Wynn curve... if I was then everyone else gets an A+. Strange didn't play well in the season opener, his first career start, but it counts. He's gotten better since and overall he's trending favorably. I think "outstanding" is overstating it a bit but I have him at above average (C+) right now and trending toward good (anywhere in the B range). It's a fluid grade, just like with every player as we get more data week to week.

Competition and results count for something, right? The team has two wins against two awful football teams with really bad defenses. Only one of their opponents so far (Green Bay) has a defense that doesn't suck. Cleveland's defense statistically isn't that good either however they have two players up front (Garrett and Clowney) who will put some pressure on the o-line to protect an inexperienced quarterback. If they can keep Zappe clean and maul Cleveland's poor run defense then it's another notch in their belt. That's fair, no?

I also don't think it's unusual for there to be a variance in grades. Of course not everyone is going to see everything in the same way. You seem to think I'm skewing my grades to fit some agenda... I could say the same for you suggesting Strange gets an A+ so far... but I really don't think that's what either one of us is doing. I'll allow for + or -5 biases on a scale of 1-100.

McCourty was a “failed draft pick” at pick 27 because he had to be converted to FS early in his career?

 

[mgteich]

Jules had a great career.

However, I'm not sure that he would have been on the patriots for more than 3 years as a WR.

Of course, Edleman stayed because he was one of the best punt returners of all time.

 

[rochrist]

Jules had a great career.

However, I'm not sure that he would have been on the patriots for more than 3 years as a WR.

Of course, Edleman stayed because he was one of the best punt returners of all time.

An awful lot of people seem to forget what JE did stepping in for an injured Welker at the end of JE's rookie season.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

An awful lot of people seem to forget what JE did stepping in for an injured Welker at the end of JE's rookie season.

The Pats were lucky not to lose JE. He was allowed to test the waters in FA and came back to the Pats. He re-signed for short money, so I don't think anyone knew what he would become. Once he had the chance at WR he was great replacing Wes and saved the teams bacon that year. The Pats gave him money in his next contract in a rare acknowledgement that a player was underpaid.

 

[PScottman]

McCourty was a “failed draft pick” at pick 27 because he had to be converted to FS early in his career?

To paraphrase an old saying...Agenda exposure is like pornography...you know it when you see it. Kind've gives new meaning to "OnlyFans"...

 

[TheRainMaker]

At the end of the day, I don’t know why we are bickering over where McCourty ended up as he stayed with the team for 13 years now. Without looking it up, he may be the longest tenured draft pick from his class.

In fact, many people probably don’t remember that Brian Urlacher started out a a OLB, but quickly got benched for Rosevelt Colvin. They decided to try him at MLB after their starter got injured two weeks later. We know what happened after that. Would he have continued to struggle at OLB had the coaching staff not tried him at MLB? We’ll never know.

Malcolm Jenkins also wasn’t a good CB, but had a long career at S.