The Way We Hear It - Draft Rumors

[DaBruinz]

Average football career is 4 years.. players/draft picks can be evaluated year in and year out and I think it as a fair compairson between the two. In todays NFL its what have you done for me lately.. And Gholston not only was out performed by Long, but he was out performed by about 250 other rookies..

So, you're saying that BB is full of crap and that it doesn't take 3 years to properly evaluate a player? Sorry, but I'll take his word over yours any day

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Just another point that I am human...

What a straight line!

 

[condon84]

There are at least 14 positions up for grabs.. So, the Pats could have 6 or 8 rookies make the team. This isn't like in 2007 when the Pats were stacked from top to bottom with players and had only a couple positions up for grabs.

I disagree with your list of people on the bubble. Realistically, these guys are not going to get beat out by rookies:

People on the bubble are: (IMHO) (28)
David Thomas, Billy Yates, Russ Hochstein, Tully Banta-Cain, Angelo Craig, Ryan O'Callaghan, Wesley Britt, Dan Connolly, Antwan Spann, Ryan Wendell, Matt Gutierrez, Ray Ventrone, Nathan Hodel, BJGE, Mike Richardson, Tyson DeVree, Vince Redd, Bo Ruud, Brad Listori, Tom Malone, Al Johnson, Tank Williams, Sam Aiken, Greg Lewis, Matt Slater, Titus Adams, Shawn Crable, Eric Alexander.

There are also some in there that I doubt a late pick will be more valuable to the team. Slater, Lewis, Aiken, Alexander are all valuable special teams players. Richardson, O'Callaghan, Britt have been in our system for a couple of years.

Rookies will of course make the team, but I doubt it will be more than 6.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we should focus on open positions rather than bubble players. I agree that Crable has a roster spot locked. The issue is UPGRADES. Can a position be upgraded for now and/or for the future? See below for SIXTEEN positions that could be potentially upgraded.

Surely there is room for 6-10 rookies to make the team by beating out the inclumbant below. And for the record, I believe that Hochstein, LeVoir, Banta-Cain, Ventrone and Hanson are more safe than the rest, so I have 11 open spots. Others may have a slightly different list. But, in the end, there is LOTS of room for rookies.

==================================
OFFENSE - 9 POSITIONS THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#3 QUARTERBACK
Why would GUTIERREZ have a spot locked? He could easily be cut and replaced by a Pa White or perhaps be a quarterback at spot 199. Gutierrez is not our backup, wasn't our backup last year and has shown us very little.

#5 RUNNING BACK
Green-Ellis can easily be upgraded.

#3 TIGHT END
Thomas is in his contract year, as is Watson. Are you really saying that Pettigrew wouldn't be an upgrade to Thomas? Drafting a top TE would solidfy the position for several years, something Belichick has always focused on. BTW, we could do worse than drafting Barwin to be our #3 2009 TE.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE GUARDS
You post that BOTH Yates and Hochstein have their positions locked in. ?????????? Mankins has one more year at most. Neal is in his contract year and is often injured. And you have Yates and Hochstein who we keep signing to ONE year contracts as the future at OG? I strongly disagree. I think Unger or Wood would send one of these packing in a heartbeat, as would several of the later guard/centers.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE TACKLES
We have LeVoir, O'Callaghan and Britt competing for these positions. Surely we MIGHT draft an OT who would beat out these stars for a position, and might even chanllenge Kaczur for his starting position.

#5 AND #6 WIDE RECEIVERS
Slater, Ventrone and Aiken are competing for these positions. Surely, none of the positions are locked. Surely, these players COULD be beaten out by rookies.
===================================
DEFENSE - 6 POSITIONS THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#6 DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
With Seymour and Green and Wilfork in their contract years, LeKevin Smith is vulnerable as Belichick looks to the likelihood of replacing Green or Seymour in 2010.

#4 and #5 OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Thomas, Woods and Crable are safe. Banta-Cain and Redd are not.

#4 INSIDE LINEBACKER
The competitors are Ruud and Alexander. I think a draftee could beat them out.

#8 and #9 DEFENSIVE BACK
Seven seemed locked in: Bodden, Springs, Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather, Sanders. The last two are certainly open. The compeititors are Richardson, Spann and Williams.
======================

SPECIAL TEAMS - 1 ADDITIONAL POSITION THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#1 PUNTER
nuff said
======================

I disagree with your list of people on the bubble. Realistically, these guys are not going to get beat out by rookies:



There are also some in there that I doubt a late pick will be more valuable to the team. Slater, Lewis, Aiken, Alexander are all valuable special teams players. Richardson, O'Callaghan, Britt have been in our system for a couple of years.

Rookies will of course make the team, but I doubt it will be more than 6.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think that we should focus on open positions rather than bubble players. I agree that Crable has a roster spot locked. The issue is UPGRADES. Can a position be upgraded for now and/or for the future? See below for SIXTEEN positions that could be potentially upgraded.

Surely there is room for 6-10 rookies to make the team by beating out the inclumbant below. And for the record, I believe that Hochstein, LeVoir, Banta-Cain, Ventrone and Hanson are more safe than the rest, so I have 11 open spots. Others may have a slightly different list. But, in the end, there is LOTS of room for rookies.

==================================
OFFENSE - 9 POSITIONS THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#3 QUARTERBACK
Why would GUTIERREZ have a spot locked? He could easily be cut and replaced by a Pa White or perhaps be a quarterback at spot 199. Gutierrez is not our backup, wasn't our backup last year and has shown us very little.

#5 RUNNING BACK
Green-Ellis can easily be upgraded.

#3 TIGHT END
Thomas is in his contract year, as is Watson. Are you really saying that Pettigrew wouldn't be an upgrade to Thomas? Drafting a top TE would solidfy the position for several years, something Belichick has always focused on. BTW, we could do worse than drafting Barwin to be our #3 2009 TE.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE GUARDS
You post that BOTH Yates and Hochstein have their positions locked in. ?????????? Mankins has one more year at most. Neal is in his contract year and is often injured. And you have Yates and Hochstein who we keep signing to ONE year contracts as the future at OG? I strongly disagree. I think Unger or Wood would send one of these packing in a heartbeat, as would several of the later guard/centers.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE TACKLES
We have LeVoir, O'Callaghan and Britt competing for these positions. Surely we MIGHT draft an OT who would beat out these stars for a position, and might even chanllenge Kaczur for his starting position.

#5 AND #6 WIDE RECEIVERS
Slater, Ventrone and Aiken are competing for these positions. Surely, none of the positions are locked. Surely, these players COULD be beaten out by rookies.
===================================
DEFENSE - 6 POSITIONS THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#6 DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
With Seymour and Green and Wilfork in their contract years, LeKevin Smith is vulnerable as Belichick looks to the likelihood of replacing Green or Seymour in 2010.

#4 and #5 OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Thomas, Woods and Crable are safe. Banta-Cain and Redd are not.

#4 INSIDE LINEBACKER
The competitors are Ruud and Alexander. I think a draftee could beat them out.

#8 and #9 DEFENSIVE BACK
Seven seemed locked in: Bodden, Springs, Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather, Sanders. The last two are certainly open. The compeititors are Richardson, Spann and Williams.
======================

SPECIAL TEAMS - 1 ADDITIONAL POSITION THAT COULD BE UPGRADED

#1 PUNTER
nuff said
======================

I think that the Pats have an opportunity in this draft to upgrade the entire bottom fifth of their roster, and even if the rokies can't unseat veterans, they can still help by creating an extremely competitive environment at TC.

 

[condon84]

#3 QUARTERBACK
Why would GUTIERREZ have a spot locked? He could easily be cut and replaced by a Pa White or perhaps be a quarterback at spot 199. Gutierrez is not our backup, wasn't our backup last year and has shown us very little.

I just don't see a rookie ousting Goots. Our system is complex as it is and I doubt we will draft a QB at a reasonably high pick that we have to keep him because of the investment. Pat White, if he is drafted, will be a WR/special teams player primarily and be an emergency QB. I don't think it will be a good idea to have O'Donnell backed by White in case Brady gets hurt. I believe if we replace Goots it will be with a veteran, not a rookie.

#5 RUNNING BACK
Green-Ellis can easily be upgraded.

Agree

#3 TIGHT END
Thomas is in his contract year, as is Watson. Are you really saying that Pettigrew wouldn't be an upgrade to Thomas? Drafting a top TE would solidfy the position for several years, something Belichick has always focused on. BTW, we could do worse than drafting Barwin to be our #3 2009 TE.

Pettigrew would be an upgrade, but we also just picked up Baker, who is a solid TE. Baker is only 29 (?) and is the type of TE that is effective in the running game and passing game. Granted, he is not spectacular but our TE is not called upon to be a focal point in our offense anyways. You also have to take into account that there's a high probability that we're going to resign either Thomas or Watson. For all the complaints about those two, they are solid and have been in the system for a couple of years.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE GUARDS
You post that BOTH Yates and Hochstein have their positions locked in. ?????????? Mankins has one more year at most. Neal is in his contract year and is often injured. And you have Yates and Hochstein who we keep signing to ONE year contracts as the future at OG? I strongly disagree. I think Unger or Wood would send one of these packing in a heartbeat, as would several of the later guard/centers.

So you'd rather have rookies as backups for this coming year at OG? Sure we could use a rookie to develop or even take over Neal's starting position, but we need DEPTH. Yates has been in the system for a couple of years. Hochstein also plays FB in goal line offense (Evans is gone). If anything, these two are locks to make the roster.

#3 and #4 OFFENSIVE TACKLES
We have LeVoir, O'Callaghan and Britt competing for these positions. Surely we MIGHT draft an OT who would beat out these stars for a position, and might even chanllenge Kaczur for his starting position.

Who said anything about stars? I don't think you understand the concept of having reliable depth. One starter gets hurt, who do you want in there? A 6th round rookie who has no experience or a solid vet who's been in the system?

#5 AND #6 WIDE RECEIVERS
Slater, Ventrone and Aiken are competing for these positions. Surely, none of the positions are locked. Surely, these players COULD be beaten out by rookies.

Agree.

#6 DEFENSIVE LINEMAN
With Seymour and Green and Wilfork in their contract years, LeKevin Smith is vulnerable as Belichick looks to the likelihood of replacing Green or Seymour in 2010.

I don't know what you mean by LeKevin being vulnerable, but we need depth and a future starter here from this draft.

#4 and #5 OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Thomas, Woods and Crable are safe. Banta-Cain and Redd are not.

Agree.

#4 INSIDE LINEBACKER
The competitors are Ruud and Alexander. I think a draftee could beat them out.

Agree.

#8 and #9 DEFENSIVE BACK
Seven seemed locked in: Bodden, Springs, Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Meriweather, Sanders. The last two are certainly open. The compeititors are Richardson, Spann and Williams.

I think we'll spend one of our top 4 picks on a safety.

 

[mgteich]

OFFENSIVE GUARD
Your alternative is to go into the 2010 offseason with four players with no contracts, expecting that Yates and Hochstein will start if necessary. It takes so long to l;earn the system that your preference is to have the 2010 depth or even starter have no experience with the system.

And BTW, who said anything about a 6th rounder. I have been pushing for Wood or Unger at 34 or 47. If you believe that neither of these can replace the mighty Yates, then I would ask why Yates doesn't have a long-term contract. I do think that only one guard should be replaced, but that is my bias. Hochstein would easily be upgraded by either of these two and some others who would be 3rd or 4th round talents. These are NOT throwaway picks for offensive linemen.

DEFENSIVE END
You say that we need depth and a future starter from this draft and yet you think LeKevin isn't vulnerable. Whose roster spot do you think that this developmental player would take?

MY BOTTOM LINE is that there are more than a dozen positions that COULD be taken by draftees or free agents. They are vulnerable/open positions. I think that three or four should be addressed on Day One. My choices would be to address DE, OG and SS.

So you'd rather have rookies as backups for this coming year at OG? Sure we could use a rookie to develop or even take over Neal's starting position, but we need DEPTH. Yates has been in the system for a couple of years. Hochstein also plays FB in goal line offense (Evans is gone). If anything, these two are locks to make the roster.


Who said anything about stars? I don't think you understand the concept of having reliable depth. One starter gets hurt, who do you want in there? A 6th round rookie who has no experience or a solid vet who's been in the system?

I don't know what you mean by LeKevin being vulnerable, but we need depth and a future starter here from this draft.

 

[mayoclinic]

New version of "The Way We Hear It" out today:

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Some nice audibles from anonymous team sources:

- On Aaron Curry: Aaron Curry is the safest pick in this draft by far. He did not rush the passer a lot, but when he does, he kicks ass. He runs people over when he blitzes. You can put him outside or put him in the middle and let him play. He can play wherever he wants to play. I hope he slides. If he starts falling, we’ll make a run up to get him.” I hope this one was from a Pats source.

- On Ziggy Hood: “The only time (Missouri DT) Ziggy Hood makes plays is when he is slanting and stunting. He never creates anything on his own. He gets kicked to the sideline on double-teams. He’s stiff, stiff, stiff — I don’t see it.”

- On Rey Maualuga: “Rey Maualuga plays too out of control. We’d have to hold our breath and take him if he fell to us. The risk diminishes the further down you go.”

 

[BlackFrancis]

I'm not sure I could disagree more strongly with a person than I disagree with that assessment of Ziggy Hood. Slants and stunts? Say what? Hood has very advanced swim and club moves that he uses nearly constantly. If you are going to rag on him for something he goes to the well too much on, it'd be those, I'd think.

I honestly have no idea where they are getting that.