The Vince Wilfork situation (merged)

[RobertWeathers]

Get with the program man, Wilfork is 28 turning 29 in April.

VW turns 29 11/4/10- year 1 of proposed deal

30-11/4/11- year 2 of deal
31-11/4/12- year 3
32-11/4/13- FA w/ current 3yr deal expired.

 

[Rob0729]

Get with the program man, Wilfork is 28 turning 29 in April.

So, he will be 32. Not a huge difference. It isn't like I said he would be 33 and he would really be 30.

 

[Rob0729]

See below:



Wilfork warns Pats: Don’t apply franchise tag | New England Patriots | projo.com | The Providence Journal

And that doesn't mean that the issue right now is money. The Pats could easily tack on another couple of years to the deal if that was the issue. I am sure when he says he wants a long term deal, he means a long term deal that includes $30-40 million in guarantees. Long term deals mean nothing in the NFL. The guaranteed money is what counts. There is a good chance if Wilfork signs a five year deal with the Pats or anyone else that he doesn't see year four or five of the deal. Is it more than 50% chance? Probably not, but it isn't like it is a 5-10% chance either.


With a player's contract only the guaranteed money and first three years mean much. Most of the time, by they reach year four their contract is undervalued and they want a new deal or their skills have diminshed beyond the value of their contract and the team wants to part ways.

 

[muzz]

From the projo link above:
"Yeah, [the franchise tag is] decent money for most people out there. (For) what I do, it’s OK. But I don’t look at myself as an OK player. Like I said, it’s just basically a slap in my face and it’s insulting to me to tell me I’m an OK player.”

It's OK?

Average of the top 5 players big guy, that's NOT just OK.

Football, the only sport where hugely out of shape fat guys are considered good and make alot of $..then complain that it's not enough...enough for what a lifetime of fatman bigmacs for the entire generation of your family, or weight loss clinics?

Anywhere else they are considered fat slobs, and he is trying to lose weight so he doesn't break a button on his one suit in the middle of his interview, all the while sweat is pouring profusely down his forehead, and he literally has to throw away his shirt because he just wasted it in sweat.

 

[SanAngeloState]

From the projo link above:
"Yeah, [the franchise tag is] decent money for most people out there. (For) what I do, it’s OK. But I don’t look at myself as an OK player. Like I said, it’s just basically a slap in my face and it’s insulting to me to tell me I’m an OK player.”

It's OK?

Average of the top 5 players big guy, that's NOT just OK.

Football, the only sport where hugely out of shape fat guys are considered good and make alot of $..then complain that it's not enough...enough for what a lifetime of fatman bigmacs for the entire generation of your family, or weight loss clinics?

Anywhere else they are considered fat slobs, and he is trying to lose weight so he doesn't break a button on his one suit in the middle of his interview, all the while sweat is pouring profusely down his forehead, and he literally has to throw away his shirt because he just wasted it in sweat.

Great post. They should get rid of him out of principle now. I hope that contract offer isn't real. Way too much money for this guy. Bottom line, he's good but not THAT good. Not good enough to be irreplaceable with a 1st round pick.

I think he's a little bit delusional. He doesn't want Haynesworth money, well he wants pretty darn close to it!

He's a little bit like Pvt. Pyle in "Full Metal Jacket"..."were you born a fat lazy puke POS or did you have to work at it!"..."Oh that's right Pyle don't make any effing effort to get to the top of the goddamn obstacle".

Wish he was as zealous at stopping the run as he is at pursuing a contract and downing cheeseburgers.

 

[patsinthesnow]

From the projo link above:
"Yeah, [the franchise tag is] decent money for most people out there. (For) what I do, it’s OK. But I don’t look at myself as an OK player. Like I said, it’s just basically a slap in my face and it’s insulting to me to tell me I’m an OK player.”

It's OK?

Average of the top 5 players big guy, that's NOT just OK.
Football, the only sport where hugely out of shape fat guys are considered good and make alot of $..then complain that it's not enough...enough for what a lifetime of fatman bigmacs for the entire generation of your family, or weight loss clinics?
Anywhere else they are considered fat slobs, and he is trying to lose weight so he doesn't break a button on his one suit in the middle of his interview, all the while
sweat is pouring profusely down his forehead, and he literally has to throw away his
shirt because he just wasted it in sweat.

He wants way too much money and hes not worth it for what he does. I don't feel he's that important for the money he wants. He stops the run... Up the middle, that's it. In the one game he didnt play the pats still beat the Bills 17-10, and if he's so valuable for run stopping, ray rice, nuff said.

The pats road to superbowl 45 will be through: Colts, Chargers, Steelers, passing threats that are pretty bad rushing. (steelers have morphed into a passing team).

I'd rather the pats use his overpaid cash on a pass rush and Bodden.

I want some input. Is what I'm saying wrong? The road to the superbowl says what's more important.

 

[jan08]

He wants way too much money and hes not worth it for what he does. I don't feel he's that important for the money he wants. He stops the run... Up the middle, that's it. In the one game he didnt play the pats still beat the Bills 17-10, and if he's so valuable for run stopping, ray rice, nuff said.

The pats road to superbowl 45 will be through: Colts, Chargers, Steelers, passing threats that are pretty bad rushing. (steelers have morphed into a passing team).

I'd rather the pats use his overpaid cash on a pass rush and Bodden.

I want some input. Is what I'm saying wrong? The road to the superbowl says what's more important.

But the road to the SB runs through the division first and foremost, and in that division we face the number one rushing offense, the number four rushing offense and the number 16. You have to match up well in the division before thinking about the post season

 

[micronin127]

From the 2009 version of Miguel's cap page: the Patriots' 2009 adjusted cap is $129,831,466.

From the current version: according to my figures the Patriots' 2010 cap figure is for $94,253,993 with 54 signed players. As of now there is no cap limit for the 2010 season.

The cap was heading down next season if there was a cap, but the Pats always have 2-3 million of money they 'carry forward' so their adjusted cap would have been roughly the same. They would be $35 million under the cap if there were still a salary cap.

They are also one of the top revenue teams and rake in over $232 million a year.... the highest average ticket price in the NFL....

You aren't wrong about Wilfork being a 2-down player and not worth what Haynesworth got which was essentially 4 yrs/$48 million with $40 million guaranteed. But he is worth paying to retain if they can work it out. He is worth more than what Chris Canty got.... 6 yrs/$42 million with $17.25 guaranteed....

So more than $20 million guaranteed makes sense, but less than $30 million guaranteed makes sense too.

 

[vyrago]

From the projo link above:
"Yeah, [the franchise tag is] decent money for most people out there. (For) what I do, it’s OK. But I don’t look at myself as an OK player. Like I said, it’s just basically a slap in my face and it’s insulting to me to tell me I’m an OK player.”

It's OK?

Average of the top 5 players big guy, that's NOT just OK.

Football, the only sport where hugely out of shape fat guys are considered good and make alot of $..then complain that it's not enough...enough for what a lifetime of fatman bigmacs for the entire generation of your family, or weight loss clinics?

Anywhere else they are considered fat slobs, and he is trying to lose weight so he doesn't break a button on his one suit in the middle of his interview, all the while sweat is pouring profusely down his forehead, and he literally has to throw away his shirt because he just wasted it in sweat.

Goodbye big Vince. It's too bad Brace couldn't give him a run for his money. When he appeared to wash out, all the leverage went to Wilfork. But that is a ridiculous amount of money to pay someone who is not a three down player.

 

[Deus Irae]

From the projo link above:
"Yeah, [the franchise tag is] decent money for most people out there. (For) what I do, it’s OK. But I don’t look at myself as an OK player. Like I said, it’s just basically a slap in my face and it’s insulting to me to tell me I’m an OK player.”

It's OK?

Average of the top 5 players big guy, that's NOT just OK.

Football, the only sport where hugely out of shape fat guys are considered good and make alot of $..then complain that it's not enough...enough for what a lifetime of fatman bigmacs for the entire generation of your family, or weight loss clinics?

Anywhere else they are considered fat slobs, and he is trying to lose weight so he doesn't break a button on his one suit in the middle of his interview, all the while sweat is pouring profusely down his forehead, and he literally has to throw away his shirt because he just wasted it in sweat.

Have you never seen a baseball game, or watched players like Oliver Miller in the NBA?

You people need to get a handle on this stuff. You all complained when Seymour held out because his contract wasn't good enough, and you held it against him for the rest of his Patriots tenure. You complained when Branch wanted to get his final year voided so that he could make more money to help secure his son's future. You complained when Samuel negotiated a "no franchise" clause into his deal. Now you're complaining when Wilfork does nothing more than note the unacceptable nature of the franchise tag in his mind.

Perhaps instead of pissing and moaning because Vince wants money, and insulting the man for his weight, you might realize that teams WANT these players big, and that the type of beating a 3-4 NT takes means that such players earn their money the hard way.

Vince figures that he put in the full 6 years of his contract, something that the players considered so onerous that they got it changed, and he figures the team owes him the kind of money he feels he's worth. There's nothing at all wrong with the position he's taking.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Have you never seen a baseball game, or watched players like Oliver Miller in the NBA?

You people need to get a handle on this stuff. You all complained when Seymour held out because his contract wasn't good enough, and you held it against him for the rest of his Patriots tenure. You complained when Branch wanted to get his final year voided so that he could make more money to help secure his son's future. You complained when Samuel negotiated a "no franchise" clause into his deal. Now you're complaining when Wilfork does nothing more than note the unacceptable nature of the franchise tag in his mind.

Perhaps instead of pissing and moaning because Vince wants money, and insulting the man for his weight, you might realize that teams WANT these players big, and that the type of beating a 3-4 NT takes means that such players earn their money the hard way.

Vince figures that he put in the full 6 years of his contract, something that the players considered so onerous that they got it changed, and he figures the team owes him the kind of money he feels he's worth. There's nothing at all wrong with the position he's taking.

Um, I recall Branch spent a fair chunk of his money at around $1M/bedroom with a view of Lake Washington - I'm sure he wants the best for his son, but he really didn't convince me that was his primary reason. For the rest, I concur.

 

[RayClay]

Um, I recall Branch spent a fair chunk of his money at around $1M/bedroom with a view of Lake Washington - I'm sure he wants the best for his son, but he really didn't convince me that was his primary reason. For the rest, I concur.

Agreed. As Sesame Street would say, one of those things is not like the other. Nothing wrong with negotiating[/Costanza].

The other three used leverage and persuasion. The franchise tag is unfair anyway, anything to leverage your position, OK by me.

Branch was under contract and intentionally screwed his team late into the off season as leverage. It was dishonorable. Yeah, his son had to have a million dollar house. Please.

Ty Law's kids are starving too.

 

[slash83]

I think the Pats will reach a long term contract extension with Vince, BB knows how important a dominant NT is to the type of defense he prefers to run and isnt letting Vince go. If all else fails VW will get franchised and the two sides will continue to hammer out a deal, no way BB loses an elite DL who is the most important player to his defense, especially now since his name will be all over the defense and how it performs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Agreed. As Sesame Street would say, one of those things is not like the other. Nothing wrong with negotiating[/Costanza].

The other three used leverage and persuasion. The franchise tag is unfair anyway, anything to leverage your position, OK by me.

Branch was under contract and intentionally screwed his team late into the off season as leverage. It was dishonorable. Yeah, his son had to have a million dollar house. Please.

Ty Law's kids are starving too.

Well, his son is in a hospital in Kentucky, whether Meion needs to pay for it or the kid's a ward of the State is anyone's guess. The home Meion bought was fancy and expensive, he could afford it and afford an annuity for his kid if needed, but he certainly didn't behave as if the kid was the primary motivation for seeking the bigger paycheck.

 

[Wolfpack]

Wilfork is unfortunate in a lot of things involving his timing and the timing of the CBA and the team he plays for (meaning a team not afraid to take a more hard-line stance) - not to mention playing in a sport with the weakest players' union.

But I just can't muster any sympathy for a guy who will be upset making more money next year than 99% of the population makes in their lives. I expect they will franchise him and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[JMarr]

Wilfork is unfortunate in a lot of things involving his timing and the timing of the CBA and the team he plays for (meaning a team not afraid to take a more hard-line stance) - not to mention playing in a sport with the weakest players' union.

But I just can't muster any sympathy for a guy who will be upset making more money next year than 99% of the population makes in their lives. I expect they will franchise him and let the chips fall where they may.

I totally hear ya, but the more I hear about concussions, the long-term health damage that playing in the NFL often causes, and that the average mortality rate of an NFL player is something like 58 years, the more sympathy I have for these guys' contract demands. I can't begrudge them for really trying to maximize their income as a player while they can.

Even though the salary cap, non-guaranteed contracts, and a comparatively weak player's union are part of the reason why the NFL is a superior product to other pro sports, I also think those things make the least sense in a game like football.