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The problem with the Patriots is lack of top end talent


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I know injuries are part of the game and everyone has them but this year has been brutal. The fact that they are even in the playoff hunt is miraculous.

Belichick is holding the ship together with spit and gum at this point. There is only so much depth that a team can have.
 
The problems with this team are numerous, and my concern is that some may see my post as dripping with pessimism, when that isn't the case at all. I am proud of what they've accomplished under the circumstances, and am just answering the question as honestly as possible.

--They aren't winning in the trenches, establishing control, or imposing their will physically. This is leading to a poor run game on a consistent level, allowing increased stress and pressure on Brady, and we aren't getting enough pressure on the opposing QB on a regular enough basis--especially when it matters.

--The inability to stop the run, and poor performance on defense in general. Yes, we've seen some improvements the past week or arguably two (at times), but giving up an average of 27 points per game since Wilfork/Mayo went down just isn't acceptable. It's a huge problem, and the defense needs to play out of their minds just to be mediocre, at least that's what I am afraid of anyway.

--Lack of an outsider receiver who has speed, can force the defense to play honest, and stretch the field just to open up some underneath routes more. Hopefully this will improve if/when one or both of Dobson or Thompkins return, but in the meantime having a bunch of slow white guys (nothing against white guys, I am one myself) isn't allowing us enough options in my opinion. Yes, we've done a pretty good job under the circumstances, but there's also a predictability issue that we must attempt to overcome.

--The most obvious answer, which is that the team is completely decimated; and that's a word that I'm getting tired of hearing and using. The latest injuries have occurred on the offensive side of the ball, and that's after all of the defense went down in a ball of flames. I am afraid that Solder may not return at all, and if he does it won't be until the post-season. That is just speculation of course, but he recently suffered his 4th concussion and his 2nd in a couple/few games.

--Lack of turnover production this season. In past years we've been able to rely on the turnovers that the defense has nabbed for us, as we've been leading the league or at least been high up in that category a lot recently. That isn't happening lately, and it's costing us possessions and chances. More importantly, we are allowing the opposition to drive down the field at a higher rate of opportunity, which leads to more chances to score pts.

--The most disturbing to me personally...the lack of core pee-wee football values such as proper tackling, etc. At one point even the penalties were up, although that didn't seem to be consistent enough to read into, so at least that is helping to see that they are playing smarter ball and not getting so many bad calls. The lack of physicality is not something that you'd expect from a Bill Belichick coached team, but not only are we failing in that area, we're also missing a lot of tackles, taking poor angles, and doing things that you don't normally see, especially at this point in the season. That is very concerning to me.

--Slow starts is a huge negative, and that may be due in part to a lack of proper preparation. I know it's a stretch and basically blasphemy to suggest such a thing, but the writing may be on the wall due to the enormous sample size at this point. That seemed to improve a bit this past week, although the team couldn't keep up the 10-0 lead worth a damn. I do think that coaching comes into play a bit here however, and that is terribly difficult for me to admit, not to mention unfortunate. Perhaps it is simply the lack of talent and some bad breaks. Either way, it's not something I am overly concerned about moving forward beyond this season.

--Too many close games. The more close games you have, the more weird things can happen. That includes getting bad penalty calls, having obvious penalties missed like Gronk and Hooman in the EZ the past few games, etc. The fact remains that we've had 11/14 games decided by a score or less, and 10/11 games have gone down into the final minute of regulation or overtime. That is going to increase the odds of losing games obviously. We cannot expect to have Brady overcome the world on his shoulders and lead the team from a come from behind victory every time we have the ball and are losing. It's just the law of averages. We need to get some breathing room in these games, or we'll have to rely on having calls go our way (the thought repulses me), along with good luck and bounces. It's simply too much to ask in my opinion.

--Another year of terrible coverage at the positions of linebacker/safety. This was supposedly addressed in the draft with Collins, the retaining of Fletcher, some weird off-season training by Spikes, and the selection of Harmon and T.Wilson in the past 2 drafts at high draft slots. Obviously, Adrian Wilson may have helped in some way too, although I don't personally believe it'd be this aspect as much as others. This lack of talent is allowing for game winning TD catches like the one we saw yesterday, along with the successful 4th down attempt which won the game for them. Last week's insanely terrible coverage on Jordan Cameron who went 9/9 in targets highlights this point even more.
 
OK- I'll play- my answer to the question is :

Nothing! This team, with all the injuries they have had, fights it's ass off every single game. Here is a team with several of it's best players gone for the season, 13 rookies on the roster, and still 10-4.

This is one of my favorite Patriots teams - probably top 10. And I've been a Patriots fan for 45 years.

I have no expectations of their winning the SB or even getting close to the SB, but if there is a way to do it, this team will because of BB, TFB, and shear determination.

I guess this makes me a blind homer to some. But I consider myself a realist with my eyes wide open. that is why I'm enjoying this team so much.

uh...yeah...pretty much exactly how I feel. Problem? You call yourselves Patriots fans but you see a PROBLEM? One of the most memorable seasons of my life the Pats finished 2-14...I remember almost every game when I go over that season and I remember enjoyment as a fan like I haven't felt in the years of constant winning. I think it's because of the ever building "BAD BAD BAD!!! It's all getting REAL BAD!!!" mentality of the Patriots fanbase. I believe a team in the NFL with the hits to the roster THIS team has taken this season would be at the bottom of ANY division in the league. Bill Belechick is a GREAT NFL head coach. This season is a testament to his GREATNESS. Problem? The problem is YOU want 16-0 and every game won by 2 touchdowns or YOU will make the decision that there is a PROBLEM. That sukks. With half the roster decimated you see a BIG PROBLEM. I see a GREAT COACHING staff solving PROBLEMS.

It must be some kind of demarcation tied to age.
 
The Problem with the Pats is their lack of ability to get off the field on third down. How many times this year have we seen the Pats have a team at third and 17 or twenty and they come out and run a screen for 22 yards. I know the defense has a lot of injuries , but somebody needs to step up and make a play. Not only this year but over the past 4-5 years. We would have 2 more Superbowl rings if the defense had only made some plays.
I was at the game in Miami and there was no doubt that when the Dolphins got the ball late in the fourth quarter that were going to take it down the field and score the go ahead touchdown. I told my wife prior to the third and 17 that the Dolphins would be able to get a first down. Then fourth and 5 and four patriots miss tackles.

We will not win another Superbowl until we get a defense that can get off the field on third downs late in the game.
 
The Problem with the Pats is their lack of ability to get off the field on third down. How many times this year have we seen the Pats have a team at third and 17 or twenty and they come out and run a screen for 22 yards. I know the defense has a lot of injuries , but somebody needs to step up and make a play. Not only this year but over the past 4-5 years. We would have 2 more Superbowl rings if the defense had only made some plays.
I was at the game in Miami and there was no doubt that when the Dolphins got the ball late in the fourth quarter that were going to take it down the field and score the go ahead touchdown. I told my wife prior to the third and 17 that the Dolphins would be able to get a first down. Then fourth and 5 and four patriots miss tackles.

We will not win another Superbowl until we get a defense that can get off the field on third downs late in the game.

Ironically, the Pats were pretty good on third down defense against the Dolphins and lost. The Dolphins were 4 for 11 on third downs. They are bad on third downs in games they win and good in games they win. That is how screwed up this season is.
 
...the most spoiled fan base in America.
 
The biggest weakness on this team excluding injuries and red zone efficiency is center. Wendell is a practice squad level player that has been getting bailed out by Mankins all season in pass protection and whiffs constantly on stunts and blitzes. He allows penetration consistently on zone runs, so much so that they have all but eliminated inside zone. It hurts them immensely in the red zone because they can't generate any push inside and defenses know this. Look at their short yardage run plays lately. They all have been outside the guard or forced to bounce out because a defender is already in the backfield through the a gap. I'm really surprised that this topic hasn't been brought up more in the forum as his play has been greatly hindering the offense all season.

Improve center and guard in the offseason, add a quality tight end, get healthy, and this team should be a juggernaut next year.
 
well, it's sorta hard to dog a guy who's playing because of need. The Pats can't really just run somebody out there to play center with all the injuries across the entire line. Wendell is versatile anbd a good depth option IMO, but he's more than a weak link, he's outgunned by every interior DL'men we face over the course of any game. There's no magical "let's grab an all pro center!" at THIS point in the season. I still haven't seen the tape of the last game but from what I saw the Pats ran pretty effectively on the Dolphins front. They just stopped running inside the 30 it seemed.
 
I honestly don't see why flacco can't have a 300+ yard game and several TD against that defense.
 
I honestly don't see why flacco can't have a 300+ yard game and several TD against that defense.
Now, that's what I call going out on a limb...
 
The biggest weakness on this team excluding injuries and red zone efficiency is center. Wendell is a practice squad level player that has been getting bailed out by Mankins all season in pass protection and whiffs constantly on stunts and blitzes. He allows penetration consistently on zone runs, so much so that they have all but eliminated inside zone. It hurts them immensely in the red zone because they can't generate any push inside and defenses know this. Look at their short yardage run plays lately. They all have been outside the guard or forced to bounce out because a defender is already in the backfield through the a gap. I'm really surprised that this topic hasn't been brought up more in the forum as his play has been greatly hindering the offense all season.

Improve center and guard in the offseason, add a quality tight end, get healthy, and this team should be a juggernaut next year.

A lot of us have been saying this since last season, Jay. Welcome back to the forum, bro. KEEP POSTING.
 
wonder what changes they make if solder is out and mankins is at LT. I think they will keep mulligan to block at LT at all times with kline or someone and move back mankins to help wendell with ngata
 
uh...yeah...pretty much exactly how I feel. Problem? You call yourselves Patriots fans but you see a PROBLEM?

...the most spoiled fan base in America.

It's reasonable enough to assess the weaknesses that have prevented our team, who is constantly favored to win the Super Bowl every single year, from doing so.

I agree that we all should be trying to enjoy the games as much as possible every single week, however it doesn't make you any less of a fan to discuss weak areas of the team and things that need to be improved upon.

No one is saying that we shouldn't all be proud as hell of the way they've overcome injuries this season, but last I checked we didn't hand out "atta boys" the way that CLE, JAX, TAM, and the NYJ do. There has been a higher standard established when you have the NFL's greatest QB and HC of all-time, so admitting that there are some glaring flaws on the team is more than okay.

Sometimes this whole "chicken little or homer" thing goes way too far.
 
It's reasonable enough to assess the weaknesses that have prevented our team, who is constantly favored to win the Super Bowl every single year, from doing so.

I agree that we all should be trying to enjoy the games as much as possible every single week, however it doesn't make you any less of a fan to discuss weak areas of the team and things that need to be improved upon.

No one is saying that we shouldn't all be proud as hell of the way they've overcome injuries this season, but last I checked we didn't hand out "atta boys" the way that CLE, JAX, TAM, and the NYJ do. There has been a higher standard established when you have the NFL's greatest QB and HC of all-time, so admitting that there are some glaring flaws on the team is more than okay.

Sometimes this whole "chicken little or homer" thing goes way too far.



Sorry Sup, but that is not what has been happening. first of all this team was never a favorite to win the Super Bowl after the offseason they had and the injuries they then suffered. And then what we saw as the season progressed was literally every player on the team getting crucified at one point or another, and the roster has been called "pitiful" etc... which is total crap. I agree that there is plenty of room for analysis and critiques, but that is very very different than the knee jerk ill informed bashing that has taken place here all season. saying that they need help on the interior OL, or a replacement for the prisoner, or interior DL help even after Wilfrork returns is all appropriate and based upon well established needs, however the types of threads we have seen really ran more to the "Amendola Sucks, Gronkowsi is made of glass, Aaron Dropson, Brady has lost it, Mankins sucks etc... etc... etc, and it continues right up to this minute with the most ignorant posters here continuing to talk sh.t about the team and talking about how weak this team is...


It's garbage, personally I am completely sick of it and wish they would all go root for the Lions. it is what they really deserve.
 
I'm not sure I see a need for an explanation for a teams issues when they are leading their division, currently in place for a first round bye, because they just lost a close game to a good team that is a division rival, on the road.
I mean, are we expecting they never lose, and if they ever do we need a full introspective analysis of why they can't win every game?

I think its pretty clear, the team, like every other has strengths and weaknesses. I don't think there is a lot of dispute over what the strengths and weaknesses are, and the fact that many were created by injuries.

Someone stated the Patriots are easy to find an identity of (Reiss maybe).
They could beat anyone. They could lose to anyone.

It's so funny, I'm looking at the standings and there three other 10-4 teams - Saints, Panthers, Niners - and I guarantee you none of those fanbases are already writing obituaries on the season. Hell, the Saints just got spanked by the Rams and will probably have to play a game in Seattle to make the SB and I'll bet their fans are *still* more optimistic than Pats fans.

And the Pats have been in every game this season. Three of their four losses were very winnable; I'd say Cincy was the only game they deserved the L and the final score was not representative of how much they were outplayed.

Nearly every other playoffs team has had some serious eggs where they were flat out non-competitive. People just need to relax and enjoy the ride.
 
Sorry Sup, but that is not what has been happening. first of all this team was never a favorite to win the Super Bowl after the offseason they had

Actually, they had the exact same odds as the Denver Broncos in many sportsbooks as the odds on favorite to win the SB before the season started.

We've seen this become the norm for many, many years now. Usually we are the favorites just about every year. There have been some years where that hasn't been the case, but we're always in the top 2-3 teams. The standard here is very high. Probably too high to be honest.

I agree that there is plenty of room for analysis and critiques, but that is very very different than the knee jerk ill informed bashing that has taken place here all season.

That's all I'm debating. We should be able to assess the weaknesses without being called one extreme or the other. There are probably 7 or 8 out of every 10 posts where I regularly laud the team/Belichick etc for just about everything they do, but when I try to provide reasonable analysis on their weaknesses people jump to conclusions and scream "spoiled" or call the name "chicken little." It's ridiculous.

saying that they need help on the interior OL, or a replacement for the prisoner, or interior DL help even after Wilfrork returns is all appropriate and based upon well established needs, however the types of threads we have seen really ran more to the "Amendola Sucks, Gronkowsi is made of glass, Aaron Dropson, Brady has lost it, Mankins sucks etc... etc... etc, and it continues right up to this minute with the most ignorant posters here continuing to talk sh.t about the team and talking about how weak this team is...

Those posters and fans are generally idiotic, so we're definitely in agreement there. If all you're going to do is critique the team 24/7 and call out negative shots all the time, then you may as well go and root for someone else. I couldn't agree with you more. Those people are what the term "chicken little" should be reserved for. The only thing we're not in agreement with is that sometimes the term is thrown around a bit too generally, should anyone point out the weaknesses (and we all know there are many) of this current 2013 team.
 
It's so funny, I'm looking at the standings and there three other 10-4 teams - Saints, Panthers, Niners - and I guarantee you none of those fanbases are already writing obituaries on the season. Hell, the Saints just got spanked by the Rams and will probably have to play a game in Seattle to make the SB and I'll bet their fans are *still* more optimistic than Pats fans.

And the Pats have been in every game this season. Three of their four losses were very winnable; I'd say Cincy was the only game they deserved the L and the final score was not representative of how much they were outplayed.

Nearly every other playoffs team has had some serious eggs where they were flat out non-competitive. People just need to relax and enjoy the ride.

While your points are very well noted and extremely reasonable, I think the concern is the way that the team has been playing for quite awhile now. The defense is giving up an average of 27+ point per game since September. Does that sound like a "good" team to you? It really doesn't to me, but I definitely agree with your advice to try and enjoy the ride as much as possible. Unfortunately, the standard is set higher due to so much hype, having arguably the best QB in the history of the NFL, along with the best head coach. We should in theory, be making deep playoff runs every year, and although that's happened in the past 2, it had been 2007 prior to that.

In 6 of our last 7 games, we've either been down by double digits+, or have lost the game (or both). That, not to mention all of the other weaknesses are likely what is keeping people from lumping us in with the Saints, Panthers, and 49'ers of the world. In other words, you can't just look at records, but you have to be able to look at the entire team, its strengths, and also its weaknesses.

It's a shame when some people are overly negative and take that too far. There's no reason to think that we cannot make a playoff run, but first we have to get into the playoffs. We'll know more about that in the next week or so. With a loss at BAL, we'd be looking at a 3-5 road record on the year, so having a first round bye is extremely important in my opinion. As you said, we should try and enjoy it as much as possible, and I would certainly never count this team out for any reason whatsoever. There are however, some very glaring issues that may indeed prevent us from doing too much this season, but as a fanbase we're very unfortunate.
 
************. Four snaps and he gave up a touchdown. I realize the guy is a great special teamer but he has no business lining up at corner.

I'm worried that other teams are going to look at that game tape, say **** it, and just run the spread on us for four solid quarters. It gives the run D a break, but it also means that Cole is one injury away from getting regular snaps, and that's just... really, really bad news.
 
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