The Patriots offensively line in context

[JohnJH]

We wasted 2024 draft outside of Maye.. that's criminal. I donno how Kraft can entrust one more season to wolf.

Polk ,baker , Wallace look like GM killers.

We got brutally lucky with Maye and squandered the chance to build one got too cute and drafted Polk. Should have got mcconkey. He is tearing it away with chargers.

I would be willing to give Wallace one more off season, as they should have had him take every snap at RT. But, they kept rotating guys at RT through camp and never gave him a real chance. Except for Maye, yes, the others were a complete waste. Wolf/Groh Jr. need to go before the 2025 FA/Draft.

 

[PatsFan2]

We wasted 2024 draft outside of Maye.. that's criminal. I donno how Kraft can entrust one more season to wolf.

Polk ,baker , Wallace look like GM killers.

We got brutally lucky with Maye and squandered the chance to build one got too cute and drafted Polk. Should have got mcconkey. He is tearing it away with chargers.

I said that: I mean the Third Overall Selection should be a Hit in any Draft: but it seems like we REACHED for the others. We were picking close to the Top of every round and came away with absolute Stiffs, just brutal.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting list.

To be fair, there are only two players drafted in the first two rounds, and four total drafted in the top 100. Wynn and Cajuste were constantly injured. The story of drafting Cole Strange that early has been rehashed many times. The only other top 100 pick was Caeden Wallace. Another selection that is easily second guessed (RT), and another that has been derailed by injury - although it is too soon to come to a conclusion on him.

Trent Brown did contribute to one championship, though the return was a disappointment. Riley Reiff was an over the hill swing and a miss. Okorafor should have never been counted on to be a starter, much less switching positions. Going into the season with him as their plan to start at LT is inexcusable. The others were mostly a bunch of crapshoots, perhaps rising to the level of decent backups.

Dante Scarnecchia's contribution to the efficacy of the offensive line can never be overstated. His loss has a negative effect on not just the coaching, but the scouting as well. The current regime needs to do a much better job in both pro scouting (free agents) and college scouting (draft). Even Dante would struggle with the combination of lack of talent and lack of depth with this offensive line.

Unfortunately the team will still have to expend resources on the offensive line. Standing pat and hoping that the current group will suddenly collectively improve in 2025 is not an option.

I'm saying 2 things though:

1. Expending more resources without addressing the scouting isn't going to solve things. This is an extensive list.

2. I consider a 4th and 5th rounder a decent expenditure for an IOL. I think these are real picks that turn out for many teams. In fact, Onwenu was a 6th rounder.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

This past offseason they seem to have taken a mindset that unless someone was a REAL solution, then they'd rather just let the young guys play. WR is a perfect example where they pursued Ridley and Aiyuk but completely ignored the lesser targets (Gabe Davis, Darnell Mooney, etc.). Ridley and Aiyuk would be legit top of the depth chart guys. The others would improve the depth chart, but still not address the weakness at the top. So they just gave young guys a chance to do that instead. They did the same thing at OL. There were no actual solutions at LT last year or even RT. Sure they could have signed someone like Jonah Williams or aging Tyron Smith, but it doesn't actually solidify the spot and still leaves you needing to upgrade. So they just have guys like Lowe a chance. The interior OL class was stronger, but they once again gave young guys a chance to earn roles vs. spending a ton on an outside guy.

Now that they got Maye and he looks like he's actually good, they CANNOT take the same approach. If all the #1 or psuedo-#1 WRs spurn us again that sucks but they need to sign some of the other guys then. I don't care if you still think Polk or Baker can develop. That can't be plan A anymore to blindly play young guys. Same with the OL. Maybe some of Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews, Cole Strange, Vederian Lowe, Caedan Wallace, Layden Robinson will go on to have great careers. Maybe they still like their potential. IDC. You can't pencil all of them in for key roles anymore. Sign and draft aggressively for guys who are actually good now. If those guys get displaced, so be it.

I'm not saying ignore the developmental potential of guys on the roster, but they can't clear the decks again to give playing time to C grade prospects like they did last year. Sign better players now, even if they aren't THE BEST guys out there. You absolutely need to elevate the overall talent level now that Maye is showing he can play well. That puts him in a position to actually take us places and build the kind of reputation that makes the top guys actually interested in coming here in the future.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

2019

4th Hjalte Froholdt

Hjalte Froholdt was a great pick in the 4th round. We just gave up on him too early. He's absolutely crushing it for Arizona at center

 

[borg]

And no that isn't a typo. The line is offensively bad.

Going with......."The Patriots offensive, offensive line in context ".........would sound far less ******ed.

 

[Vindicate]

This team has struggled to keep an OL coach since Scar departing and basically didn't have one last year after Klemm ****ed off so early. Basically, this team has had very little continuity in coaches at what is often described as the tpighest unit to coach. That doesn't help at all.

2024 - Scott Peters.
2023 - Klemm then I'm assuming BoB?
2022 - Matt Patricia
2021 - Cole Popovich, who was then fired for refusing to wear masks, so they went with Carmen Bricillo
2020 - Cole and Bricillo are co-coaches of the OL
2016-2019 - Scar's second run

I'm firmly in the camp of this majorly being a coaching issue.

 

[Toofy]

Bill basically did not replenish the coaching tree when others left. This left cupboard bare.

Tbh, I am okay with offensive line. Maye is making them look serviceable and if we have some playmaker receivers , the line will look far superior . Teams are not even having a safety on us and just using linebackers all around and 2-3 corners. No wonder pass rush and run defense is great on the other side.

Get two game stretchers and then we can gauge offensive line. We can't compare offensive line in isolation considering our wr corps rather lack of it.

 

[Toofy]

This past offseason they seem to have taken a mindset that unless someone was a REAL solution, then they'd rather just let the young guys play. WR is a perfect example where they pursued Ridley and Aiyuk but completely ignored the lesser targets (Gabe Davis, Darnell Mooney, etc.). Ridley and Aiyuk would be legit top of the depth chart guys. The others would improve the depth chart, but still not address the weakness at the top. So they just gave young guys a chance to do that instead. They did the same thing at OL. There were no actual solutions at LT last year or even RT. Sure they could have signed someone like Jonah Williams or aging Tyron Smith, but it doesn't actually solidify the spot and still leaves you needing to upgrade. So they just have guys like Lowe a chance. The interior OL class was stronger, but they once again gave young guys a chance to earn roles vs. spending a ton on an outside guy.

Now that they got Maye and he looks like he's actually good, they CANNOT take the same approach. If all the #1 or psuedo-#1 WRs spurn us again that sucks but they need to sign some of the other guys then. I don't care if you still think Polk or Baker can develop. That can't be plan A anymore to blindly play young guys. Same with the OL. Maybe some of Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews, Cole Strange, Vederian Lowe, Caedan Wallace, Layden Robinson will go on to have great careers. Maybe they still like their potential. IDC. You can't pencil all of them in for key roles anymore. Sign and draft aggressively for guys who are actually good now. If those guys get displaced, so be it.

I'm not saying ignore the developmental potential of guys on the roster, but they can't clear the decks again to give playing time to C grade prospects like they did last year. Sign better players now, even if they aren't THE BEST guys out there. You absolutely need to elevate the overall talent level now that Maye is showing he can play well. That puts him in a position to actually take us places and build the kind of reputation that makes the top guys actually interested in coming here in the future.

Where can you get good guyz now half into the season . Best bet would be to play the younger guyz and hope 2 or 3 pan out. Looks like Jonathan Jones, godchaux, dugger , onwenu and rham have regressed .

Let's see how much we can salvage from this season.

Lowe
Wallace
Baker
Polk
Brown
Hasty
Jaheim bell
Jacobs
Jordan
Christian Ellis
Alex Austin
Schooler as free safety

Are players I want to really evaluate .

 

[Huckleberry1]

I agree with most of this thread.

 

[Huckleberry1]

OL should be the focus of both the Draft and Free Agency. Fix that, then they can address the other issues. But I would like to see them poach Javon Holland from the fish.

 

[Gumby]

At some point, we have to STOP talking about the Patriots neglecting the OL. We have to START talking about bad scouting.

You can't bring in 30 players at these positions over 5 years (I didn't include practice squad guys, but only guys who played) and have every single one of those 30 players fail (with the exception of 2 in Onwenu and Strange). A lot of resources have been wasted to buff up that O-Line.

Now, I'm still of the belief that the QB makes all the difference, and to a degree the coaching. We have seen these players pass protect well for a competent QB like Maye. We also saw them run block well last year when they strung together several 150+ running yard games. If only they could do both at the same time, and with the confidence of coaches.

But overall it is a failure. A failure of scouting and a failure of coaches.

What it isn't is a failure of expending resources. I mean, good god, we've spent a ton in draft picks!

2018
1st Isaiah Wynn

2019
3rd Yodney Cajuste
4th Hjalte Froholdt

2020
6th Mike Onwenu
6th Justin Herron
7th Dustin Woodward

2021
6th William Sherman

2022
1st Cole Strange
6th Chasen Hines
7th Andrew Steuber

2023
4th Jake Andrews
4th Sidy Sow
5th Atonio Mafi

2024
3rd Caden Wallace
4th Layden Robinson

Free Agent signings over the period:
LaAdrian Waddle
Trent Brown
Jermaine Eluemenor
Ted Karras (Return from Dolphins)
Marcus Cannon (Return from Texans)
Riley Reiff
Calvin Anderson
Vederian Lowe
Tyrone Wheatley
Connor McDermott
Chuk Okorafor
Nick Leverett
Demontrey Jacobs
Michael Jordan
Ben Brown

Ok; seems like a great point. But for the way forward: ????

So who owns those ****ty scouts?
Do they work for Elliot or Mayo or director of scouting?
Who is our white knight to solve this problem?
Is it already TOO LATE? The college season is already half over, the scouts we had are the ones who are going to those games. If they are the problem, …. Are we fuked again another year

 

[upstater1]

Ok; seems like a great point. But for the way forward: ????

So who owns those ****ty scouts?
Do they work for Elliot or Mayo or director of scouting?
Who is our white knight to solve this problem?
Is it already TOO LATE? The college season is already half over, the scouts we had are the ones who are going to those games. If they are the problem, …. Are we fuked again another year

It just doesn't seem to me that we can do this all over again. I guess free agency is the best option. But do we think NONE of these guys will become another Hjalte Froholdt if we cut bait with them now?

We took so many of them. What if Cole Strange, Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews and Layden Robinson go to other teams and become perennial starters?

 

[Gumby]

It just doesn't seem to me that we can do this all over again. I guess free agency is the best option. But do we think NONE of these guys will become another Hjalte Froholdt if we cut bait with them now?

We took so many of them. What if Cole Strange, Sidy Sow, Jake Andrews and Layden Robinson go to other teams and become perennial starters?

If you are saying that: you are saying the COACHING is the ISSUE and NOT the scouting.

Make up your mind? Or are you Thelonius saying we are broke all over?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Make up your mind? Or are you Thelonius saying we are broke all over?

Hard not to think we are broke in both scouting and coaching.

 

[upstater1]

If you are saying that: you are saying the COACHING is the ISSUE and NOT the scouting.

Make up your mind? Or are you Thelonius saying we are broke all over?

I've been saying the same thing over and over. This isn't a contradiction.

People keep saying let's expend more resources.

And I'm showing that they brought in 30 guys and only 2 of them worked out.

Scouting, coaching, you simply cannot be this bad!

So the natural answer that people have in here is always, we need to draft more of those guys! But that's not necessarily the answer.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I've been saying the same thing over and over. This isn't a contradiction.

People keep saying let's expend more resources.

And I'm showing that they brought in 30 guys and only 2 of them worked out.

Scouting, coaching, you simply cannot be this bad!

So the natural answer that people have in here is always, we need to draft more of those guys! But that's not necessarily the answer.

I am hopeful that RK sees the statistics too. The Pats have a large cap to spend next year and if the management wastes this FA opportunity, the franchise will be set back years. I imagine RK knows that. What will RK do? I have no idea.

 

[Clonamery]

If you are saying that: you are saying the COACHING is the ISSUE and NOT the scouting.

Make up your mind? Or are you Thelonius saying we are broke all over?

Feels like we are rudderless all over the place. We have a QB who is playing to win every game.....doesn't feel like anyone outside the players has bought into that notion. Might not be true but it feels like it is.

 

[archstanton543]

We wasted 2024 draft outside of Maye.. that's criminal. I donno how Kraft can entrust one more season to wolf.

Polk ,baker , Wallace look like GM killers.

We got brutally lucky with Maye and squandered the chance to build one got too cute and drafted Polk. Should have got mcconkey. He is tearing it away with chargers.

I thought the rule was that you need at least two years to evaluate a draft class. Now we're not even giving them one year?

 

[Toofy]

I thought the rule was that you need at least two years to evaluate a draft class. Now we're not even giving them one year?

Today's league wide receivers perform in year 1 . Very rarely do we see a tectonic jump in year 2 and not from abysmal Lowe. Probability is not there for Polk.

Broncos has 2 late round rookie wide receivers tearing it. Nabers played as advertised, MHJ same. Brian Thomas excelling big time. Coleman doing a good job.
Mcconkey being super reliable
Xavier worthy looking solid too.

Polk is the only one who currently stinks...