The Patriots have voided all of Hernandez's contract guarantees

[ctpatsfan77]

I think this is ultimately what happens. Possession is 9/10th the law. They will be very hard pressed to actually get back money already given to Hernandez, and Hernandez will be very hard pressed to get them to cut him a check for any remaining "guaranteed" funds.

I honestly don't give a crap about the money exchanging hands, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing some cap relief.

I think it all depends, honestly, on his level of involvement in the 2012 double murder. If he is actually charged in that, I can't imagine anyone trying to help him with a contract fight—since it happened before he got his new contract.

As far as cap relief goes, there's no additional cap relief for that $7.5M until and unless (1) they successfully withhold the $3.25M they've yet to pay, and/or (2) get a judgment allowing them to claw back some of the money they've paid.

 

[Uncle Meat]

I'll confess to not knowing the contract details.
Is any of the money that's being withheld guaranteed against morals?

Not many people do know the contract details, including me...that's why he'll likely hire a high-priced lawyer to dig into it.

I have heard this from Ian Rappaport: usually, there is something called a "failure to report" or "failure to practice" clause in contracts to protect guaranteed money against a player not showing up like he's supposed to. There was nothing like that in Hernandez's contract, so the Pats technically owe him his base salary for the next two years, which was guaranteed. I read that the team thinks that they may get out of paying that "somehow" through the collective bargaining agreement because Hernandez was arrested. They may have a case there, again from what I've read.

What's harder for them to protect, though, is the guaranteed money that they still owe him for his signing bonus, I think. They are withholding that too, but it's a legal issue over my head. Sounds to me that they should still have to pay that for sure, but that's just my opinion based on limited knowledge.

The thing here is that Hernandez hasn't been convicted of anything. He's innocent in the eyes of the law at this point, and it's all about the law, of course. If you are going to guarantee money, it seems contradictory to put conditions on that across the board. I figure that he's got some money coming to him, whether he killed somebody or not. Seems to me like his signing bonus is guaranteed the minute after he signs the contract, in other words.

In any case, I'd act now (while I'm still legally innocent) to go after that guaranteed money if I were Hernandez. It may look better, but I'm not exactly sure if it matters anyway. I'm not a lawyer (thank God).

 

[supafly]

Looks like we may end up having two contract hearings coming up at some point--Fanane and Hernandez.

By the way, if the Pats recover Fanane's money, does it go towards this yr's cap or next yr's?

Also, how does this current AH situation affect us for cap space for this current year? Last time I heard we were somewhere around 8 million or so under, most of which I assumed would be brought over to next season. Just wondering how much this changes things now.

Thanks.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Looks like we may end up having two contract hearings coming up at some point--Fanane and Hernandez.

By the way, if the Pats recover Fanane's money, does it go towards this yr's cap or next yr's?

Also, how does this current AH situation affect us for cap space for this current year? Last time I heard we were somewhere around 8 million or so under, most of which I assumed would be brought over to next season. Just wondering how much this changes things now.

Thanks.

From what I remember reading, it depends on the date that the clawback occurs. Of course, if it happens this year, it can be rolled over to next year anyways.

 

[BradyFTW!]

The $7.5M cap hit next year seriously sucks. That's a lot of dead space to be carrying around.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The $7.5M cap hit next year seriously sucks. That's a lot of dead space to be carrying around.

Some things are more important than money.

 

[mgteich]

I believe that the net cap effect is less than $3M. There is cap savings this years (rolled into next) and cap costs next year.

Of course, we'd always like to avoid dead money.

The $7.5M cap hit next year seriously sucks. That's a lot of dead space to be carrying around.

 

[Deus Irae]

The $7.5M cap hit next year seriously sucks. That's a lot of dead space to be carrying around.

It does suck, because that's a lot of over-the-hill players that could have been signed and cut,



but it's not as bad when you look at it this way:

2013 dead money hits of note:

Chad Johnson - 1.58m
Brandon Lloyd - 3.5m
Jonathan Fanene - 2.56m


It's not good, but it's less than that trio is costing this year, and the Fanene money could still, theoretically, end up back in the kitty for next season.

 

[goheels22002]

The $7.5M cap hit next year seriously sucks. That's a lot of dead space to be carrying around.

Is there any appeals process to have the dead money reduced for 2014? The circumstances are well beyond the control of the team. It does not seem fair that the team be penalized for an act of this nature.

If not, it makes long-term guarantees and prorated bonuses even more risky than ever before. It also suggests to me that players with any violent crime or gang involvement will have a difficult time getting a competitive deal. That may be a good thing.

 

[Miguel]

By the way, if the Pats recover Fanane's money, does it go towards this yr's cap or next yr's?

Next year's

From the CBA:
In the event that a Club receives a refund from the player of any previously-paid Salary, or the Club fails to pay any previously allocated portion of a signing bonus (including any amount treated as signing bonus), such amount as has previously been included in Team Salary shall be credited to the Club's Team Salary for the next League Year.

Also, how does this current AH situation affect us for cap space for this current year? Last time I heard we were somewhere around 8 million or so under, most of which I assumed would be brought over to next season. Just wondering how much this changes things now.

The Pats gained $968,000 in 2013 cap space by waiving AH and lost $3,795,000 in 2014 cap space.

 

[Miguel]

From the CBA:
In the event that a Club receives a refund from the player of any previously-paid Salary, or the Club fails to pay any previously allocated portion of a signing bonus (including any amount treated as signing bonus), such amount as has previously been included in Team Salary shall be credited to the Club's Team Salary for the next League Year.

In AH's case I interpret this clause that if and when the Pats do not pay the $3.25 million that is due AH on March 31st 2014 they will not receive a credit on the 2014 cap but on the 2015 cap.

 

[BlueThunder]

This will ultimately affect future drafts as teams that were willing to take chances on college players with checkered pasts, will more than likely remember the Hernandez case and say NO THANKS...PASS on that player.

I doubt that most of these young athletes who like to party and hang with the wrong people will all of a sudden take the straight and narrow road in college.

Maybe this is a good thing for the NFL. Talent shouldn't be the end all. Character has to be elevated in the evaluation process..

That could be one reason Tebow is being given a shot by BB. :rocker:

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I doubt he comes after the money any time soon. Why? Because he wants to use his Right to Remain Silent in criminal proceedings first, and get through them before dealing with anything civil (court case, league hearing, whatever) that might require him to give his version of events.

I hope Hernandez never sees another dime from the Patriots, if for no other reason than that you and I are the ones who ultimately would pay it because we patronize NFL sponsors and/or the Patriots organization itself.

However, I don't think your comment is accurate. Hernandez would only need to contend that, prior to conviction, the crime(s) of which he is accused do not constitute a valid application of the "conduct unbecoming" clause or whatever it's called. That would all be done through his high priced lawyers without his ever setting foot in a courtroom or having to attest to anything more than, "Yes, that is my signature on that contract." A judge would determine if his challenge was valid.

It's a testimony to how strong the Patriots have doubtless been assured the case against Hernandez is that they are doing this and thereby risking a lawsuit for wrongful actions under the contract in the apparently unlikely event that he is acquitted.

 

[voluntarysaftey]

This will ultimately affect future drafts as teams that were willing to take chances on college players with checkered pasts, will more than likely remember the Hernandez case and say NO THANKS...PASS on that player.

I doubt that most of these young athletes who like to party and hang with the wrong people will all of a sudden take the straight and narrow road in college.

Maybe this is a good thing for the NFL. Talent shouldn't be the end all. Character has to be elevated in the evaluation process..

That could be one reason Tebow is being given a shot by BB. :rocker:

I think Character is a bit overlooked. Bad character clearly is a negative and drops you. But the difference between great character and okay character really isn't counted.

For example, would Welker have receive any less of an offer if he acted like Moss? Probably not. What is the value (% or $) of Welker being a pretty good character.

In hindsight, they should've certainly been more cautious with AHern and I think even with Gronk -- Gronk doesn't have evil character traits, but like Seguin on the bruins, he seems to have questionable party traits.
And he might be fine and continue to be a historically good TE; or he could drop off the map at some point -- plenty of other great athletes have been distracted and then become average / sub-average / out-of-the-league when they should've been in their prime. I don't think he'll drop into that bucket, but there's a greater chance he will than a guy like Wilfork would've.

Its possible they didn't want to lose both players at the same time so made an uncharacteristic top dollar contract extension when in the past they've let plenty of other really good players play out the contract.

 

[neuronet]

I asked this before, and recently in the 'stupid questions' sticky thread...

How will this money work against our cap? Isn't the cap for active roster players? How is it fair that we would have money locked up for a player that isn't even around? Can someone explain this please, how we will have so much lost cap space even if he is rotting in jail?

:idontgetit:

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I asked this before, and recently in the 'stupid questions' sticky thread...

How will this money work against our cap? Isn't the cap for active roster players? How is it fair that we would have money locked up for a player that isn't even around? Can someone explain this please, how we will have so much lost cap space even if he is rotting in jail?

:idontgetit:

The salary cap rules do not distinguish between the various ways in which a player can be "separated" from a team.

In any case, the dead money that hits in 2014 is the remaining signing bonus allocations from his 2012 bonus: the $2.5 million for 2014 that was already there, plus the same amount for 2015 and again for 2016.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I asked this before, and recently in the 'stupid questions' sticky thread...

How will this money work against our cap? Isn't the cap for active roster players? How is it fair that we would have money locked up for a player that isn't even around? Can someone explain this please, how we will have so much lost cap space even if he is rotting in jail?

:idontgetit:

The way that it works is that Hernandez already collected the majority of his signing bonus, which was scheduled to be applied to the salary cap evenly each year over the length of his contract. The money was already paid, but was scheduled to hit the salary in the future.

When the Pats cut Hernandez, all of the guaranteed money that was scheduled to hit the cap in the future is accelerated to the present. Since it was already paid out, it has to be accounted for on the salary cap at some point, and since he's no longer with the team the rules say that it all must be accounted for now. Basically just an accounting move. This is actually true for all guaranteed money that is accounted for in the future, but signing bonus is the bulk of it.

Because the Pats cut Hernandez after June 1st, they're able to take the cap hit that was accelerated to the present and split it between this year's cap and next year's: again, just an accounting rule that's spelled out by the collective bargaining agreement.

I'm sure that there's more at work here, in terms of details, but those are the very basics, at least. Hope that helps!

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Two minor points:

(1) It's over the length of the contract or five years, whichever is shorter.
(2) Effectively, because it's after June 1, all the accelerated money hits next year's cap; what's on this year's cap is this year's dead money.

The way that it works is that Hernandez already collected the majority of his signing bonus, which was scheduled to be applied to the salary cap evenly each year over the length of his contract. The money was already paid, but was scheduled to hit the salary in the future.

When the Pats cut Hernandez, all of the guaranteed money that was scheduled to hit the cap in the future is accelerated to the present. Since it was already paid out, it has to be accounted for on the salary cap at some point, and since he's no longer with the team the rules say that it all must be accounted for now. Basically just an accounting move. This is actually true for all guaranteed money that is accounted for in the future, but signing bonus is the bulk of it.

Because the Pats cut Hernandez after June 1st, they're able to take the cap hit that was accelerated to the present and split it between this year's cap and next year's: again, just an accounting rule that's spelled out by the collective bargaining agreement.

I'm sure that there's more at work here, in terms of details, but those are the very basics, at least. Hope that helps!

 

[neuronet]

The way that it works is that Hernandez already collected the majority of his signing bonus, which was scheduled to be applied to the salary cap evenly each year over the length of his contract. The money was already paid, but was scheduled to hit the salary in the future.

When the Pats cut Hernandez, all of the guaranteed money that was scheduled to hit the cap in the future is accelerated to the present. Since it was already paid out, it has to be accounted for on the salary cap at some point, and since he's no longer with the team the rules say that it all must be accounted for now. Basically just an accounting move. This is actually true for all guaranteed money that is accounted for in the future, but signing bonus is the bulk of it.

Because the Pats cut Hernandez after June 1st, they're able to take the cap hit that was accelerated to the present and split it between this year's cap and next year's: again, just an accounting rule that's spelled out by the collective bargaining agreement.

Very interesting, thanks for the explanation, now it is starting to make sense!

 

[Rob0729]

In AH's case I interpret this clause that if and when the Pats do not pay the $3.25 million that is due AH on March 31st 2014 they will not receive a credit on the 2014 cap but on the 2015 cap.

This is likely going to be the test case for a lot of language in the new CBA. To my knowledge, this is the first time anyone tried to use any of these conduct detrimental clauses in the new CBA. Even the Jags last year used language written in Justin Blackmon's contract to void guarantees rather than the CBA (unless Ian Rappaport was wrong about that too).

I think there is going to be a lot of interpretations of the CBA language. I bet the Pats will argue that bonus money shouldn't be paid and already paid bonus money returned because Hernandez will not be able to play during the time that money is amortized due to incarceration and it doesn't matter if he is a member of the Patriots or not because the language says they can recoup bonus money that is amortized during the time a player is unable to play due to incarceration.