The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[WhatJustHappened]

I'm all set with Eberflus.

 

[Lavictoire]

Vrabel is the safest bet. Johnson needs experience as a head coach. Vrabel gets us in the mix but at least replace the DC and upgrade OC. Get Vrabel! New dynasty in reach patsfans!

 

[lancerman]

Vrabel is the safest bet. Johnson needs experience as a head coach. Vrabel gets us in the mix but at least replace the DC and upgrade OC. Get Vrabel! New dynasty in reach patsfans!

There's no safe bets when it comes to coaches. The success rate of new HC's vs retreads is virtually identical.

The only difference is Vrabel is a known quantity and Johnson isn't as a HC.

If Vrabel was a "safe bet" he wouldn't be on the market for a job. He's just the bet with an easier to evaluate experience category.

 

[Lavictoire]

Look, DEI is on the way out, It has been found wanting. Planes falling out of the sky; Bridges collapsing; fires out of control because water for humans and ag redirected into the ocean; the wrong legs getting amputated; The stories are legion. Make a rational choice and F the bean counters! Hire Vrabel! Is that so horrible?

 

[Lavictoire]

There's no safe bets when it comes to coaches. The success rate of new HC's vs retreads is virtually identical.

The only difference is Vrabel is a known quantity and Johnson isn't as a HC.

If Vrabel was a "safe bet" he wouldn't be on the market for a job. He's just the bet with an easier to evaluate experience category.

Word is he wants more control than owners want to give. He's kinda like Bellichick. How did BB work out?

 

[lancerman]

Word is he wants more control than owners want to give. He's kinda like Bellichick. How did BB work out?

Belichick worked out amazing... until he didn't. The evolution of the league eventually caught up with him. 2014 was really the start of bad drafts. 2018 was the start of terrible free agencies. 2019 was when they stopped winning playoff games.

Belichick was a bit of a unicorn in that he had unprecedented football knowledge accumulated since he was a kid and he had a unicorn QB to smoothen out some edges in later years. Vrabel has neither.

There's a reason Bill Belichick was the last coach in the league with full control and there's a reason it stopped working even with him. If that's what you want out of a coach, you better find a time machine

 

[festy1986]

I think that's because in the press conference he came out and owned it totally.

I think he's got a lot of leeway due to that and now he's getting the chance to fix it.

However if he doesn't live up to his end of the bargain (Spending in FA, Lots more staff, Analytics etc) it will start up again pretty quickly.

The only thing I'm going to add to this is that if we have a bad season next year while also keeping wolf in a upper management role where he's allowed to pick the players and spend money in free agency, then we'll be doing this again next year.

They won't fire their coach next year almost certainly even if they go 4 and 13. However I'd have a real problem with another sham head coaching search, picking a defensive guy, picking someone who's worked in your organization before and then made them work with the player personnel you already have hired.

They did all that with Mayo and then fired him.

I can't imagine Kraft keeps Wolf or that they don't get the best offensive and defensive coordinators on the market in here while spending huge in free agency and making a bunch of moves in the draft.

Kraft has to take the brunt of the fans criticism if he chooses not to do any of that.

 

[Lavictoire]

Belichick worked out amazing... until he didn't. The evolution of the league eventually caught up with him. 2014 was really the start of bad drafts. 2018 was the start of terrible free agencies. 2019 was when they stopped winning playoff games.

Belichick was a bit of a unicorn in that he had unprecedented football knowledge accumulated since he was a kid and he had a unicorn QB to smoothen out some edges in later years. Vrabel has neither.

There's a reason Bill Belichick was the last coach in the league with full control and there's a reason it stopped working even with him. If that's what you want out of a coach, you better find a time machine

Well Vrabel stated with the Titans in 2018 so he kept up with the times it seems and had reasonable success.

 

[lancerman]

Well Vrabel stated with the Titans in 2018 so he kept up with the times it seems and had reasonable success.

Vrabel finished his career with the Titans with two losing seasons and got fired. He couldn't keep his best WR, he couldn't keep his OC's. When they left it all fell apart. Vrabel did not win a playoff game in 5 of the 6 seasons he coached.

Some people want to say that was solely on the Titans front office. He didn't make the playoffs in half of the seasons he coached. He finished with a .545 winning percentage. I wouldn't call that much success.

Hopefully he is better here.

 

[Lavictoire]

Vrabel finished his career with the Titans with two losing seasons and got fired. He couldn't keep his best WR, he couldn't keep his OC's. When they left it all fell apart. Vrabel did not win a playoff game in 5 of the 6 seasons he coached.

Some people want to say that was solely on the Titans front office. He didn't make the playoffs in half of the seasons he coached. He finished with a .545 winning percentage. I wouldn't call that much success.

Hopefully he is better here.

"Vrabel was named head coach of the Titans on January 20, 2018, and he led the team for six seasons.

The Titans went 9-7 in his first two seasons, and advanced to the AFC Championship Game during the 2019 season. A year later, the Titans finished 11-5, but lost in the first round of the playoffs.

The following year, in 2021, the Titans entered the postseason as the AFC's No.1 seed, but then lost their home playoff game to the Bengals."

Anyone know why the Titans struggled after that? Would Maye make the difference? Still this guy is worth a shot compared to what we have seen so far. It;s SURE to improve A LOT!

 

[lancerman]

"Vrabel was named head coach of the Titans on January 20, 2018, and he led the team for six seasons.

The Titans went 9-7 in his first two seasons, and advanced to the AFC Championship Game during the 2019 season. A year later, the Titans finished 11-5, but lost in the first round of the playoffs.

The following year, in 2021, the Titans entered the postseason as the AFC's No.1 seed, but then lost their home playoff game to the Bengals."

Anyone know why the Titans struggled after that? Would Maye make the difference? Still this guy is worth a shot compared to what we have seen so far. It;s SURE to improve A LOT!

I mean anyones worth a shot compared to what we have now. I just don't think Vrabel's the best guy. But he's a huge step up in quality imo from what we have now.

 

[Uptown]

 

[lancerman]

2017 being the inflection year doesn't surprise me. The league shifted a lot around that time. Reid finally got over the hump the following year, McVay and Shanahan started building their programs etc. Then the whole copycat league phenomena always kicks in and everyone was rushing to get the next offensive guru.

 

[Uptown]

.

 

[signbabybrady]

Vrabel finished his career with the Titans with two losing seasons and got fired. He couldn't keep his best WR, he couldn't keep his OC's. When they left it all fell apart. Vrabel did not win a playoff game in 5 of the 6 seasons he coached.

Some people want to say that was solely on the Titans front office. He didn't make the playoffs in half of the seasons he coached. He finished with a .545 winning percentage. I wouldn't call that much success.

Hopefully he is better here.

I find it interesting that you have the stance that you do about no one having full control but yet you still blame the coach for things that would be in the purview of the front office.

And it's not just you it's just kind of the way it works. Like you point out full control like Bill had is not common but fans don't pay attention to the front office the way they do the coach so they still get as much credit for success and failure.

 

[Clonamery]

I find it interesting that you have the stance that you do about no one having full control but yet you still blame the coach for things that would be in the purview of the front office.

And it's not just you it's just kind of the way it works. Like you point out full control like Bill had is not common but fans don't pay attention to the front office the way they do the coach so they still get as much credit for success and failure.

Rah Rah Sis-Boom-Bah!

 

[JayNM]

well we have more Offensive minded coaches now than ever, so this isnt that relevant

 

[Huckleberry1]

It’s not that it’s the media saying Pats made a mockery of the Rooney rule.

So what? Who cares what is being said on Twitter or in the media, they are going to say it regardless of what they do. They simply need to make the best choice and go with it.

 

[TommyD4207]

Vrabel finished his career with the Titans with two losing seasons and got fired. He couldn't keep his best WR, he couldn't keep his OC's. When they left it all fell apart. Vrabel did not win a playoff game in 5 of the 6 seasons he coached.

Some people want to say that was solely on the Titans front office. He didn't make the playoffs in half of the seasons he coached. He finished with a .545 winning percentage. I wouldn't call that much success.

Hopefully he is better here.

.545 > .188

 

[Family]

On another note
Vrabel still does not have a interview scheduled with LV yet

Somehow Pete Carroll already has his interview scheduled with LV but Vrabel doesn’t

There has to be a reason for it
My only thought is TB reached out to Vrabel and Vrabel said he wanted NE and NE wants him
What else could it be if Pete gets a interview but not Vrabel

I suspect Vrabel will be a little pricey for LV.

Pete will probably work for a discount to stay in the game. Money couldn't be a huge motivator for him.

I believe LV will be a value hire.