Content Post The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Huckleberry1]

I think Kraft is set on Vrabel.

 

[NormZauchin]

Now to be fair and balanced....

NFL Rumors: Ben Johnson Saw Commanders Execs as 'Basketball Guys,' Was 'Turned Off'

Josh Harris was already the governor of the Philadelphia 76ers when he led a group that purchased the Washington Commanders, and that basketball background…

bleacherreport.com

If "basketball guy" Red Auerbach had been brought in to run the Patriots while Billy Sullivan owned the team, the franchise would have been better off.

 

[NormZauchin]

I understand this line of thinking, but disagree with the conclusions.

I agree that Vrabel is the safer pick if your end goal is respectability, but I'd wager that Johnson has a higher chance of delivering multiple superbowls. The importance of having high end stability on the offensive side paired with a young up and coming QB trumps anything that Vrabel brings to the table.

I'd argue that Vrabel not only has a smaller potential upside, but his profile of competent but not great has a better chance (than a complete bust) of setting a team back long term, as
hidden within the "safer" pick is the chance of experiencing the purgatory of having a HC that delivers good but not great results over a long period of time (good enough to stay employed but not good enough to win it all).

Vrabel hasn't shown brilliance as a coordinator let alone as a head coach. Let's shoot for excellence...again and again if necessary.

In NFL history fourteen coaches out of hundreds have won multiple Super Bowls. Even if Johnson has a higher chance than Vrabel of delivering such an achievement, it remains an unlikely possibility.

 

[dliverey44]

Just an interesting FYI, when Rees was OC at Alabama one of his WRs was Isiah Bond. I am not a fan of Bond but Would be alright if the OC wanted him. This is assuming that Vrabel is hired and bring Rees.

Edit: I have decided that I am in favor of hiring Vrabel because I think the culture and game management is most important right now for this team. If Vrabel is hired and brings Rees I am excited about that, if its McDaniels I won't be as excited, but will still support them.

 

[Toofy]

I think what might too the scales for BJ might be that pats went with safe option for Mayo without looking at other candidates. In the case of BJ, if he blows them off with knowledge of offense, culture, defense and operations setup and liaison with front office that could tilt the scales. I am thinking BJ is going to be hyper motivated to give the pitch of his life to the pats.

Vrabel only negative might be his OC. If he says it's Josh McD it's gonna be tough . But Vrabel + McD + Saleh with TC McCartney and AVP in reduced roles, while retaining Springer and Wolf could tilt the scales for Vrabel.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[Love The Drake]

Ben Johnson should get serious consideration
.

 

[dliverey44]

The interviews today were shams. They picked Leftwhich and Pep because they are not under contract with a team, so they could get it done quick. I think that as soon as Vrabel was let out of Cleveland contract that Kraft was like that is our guy.

 

[Love The Drake]

Kraft needs to listen to Wolf and Highsmith and not make the decision himself.

 

[jdlboot14]

Kraft has gotten so played these last 2 years in coaching cycles.
Last year he was hurried into firing BB and anointing Mayo - because he had promised it, and Mayo was feigning other HC interview interests to force the issue.
This year Vrabel is doing the same thing - as reported with the meeting with the Jets. And probably drumming up serious interest from old pal Brady at the Raiders, so that Kraft gives up anything to not let Vrabel leave the facility on Thurs....

But, it could all work out best for us anyway. Johnson won't likely fly in his first HC job (like most don't).
But Vrabel and some experienced asst's could be ready to roll in NE once again.
Hey BB was 47 when hired by Pats, and Vrabel is 49.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Feels like a Vrabel hire would be made for all the same reasons the Mayo hire was. That’s not to say it won’t work out, but it feels like a case of Kraft having an emotional connection to a guy from his playing experience here and drawing a successful narrative in his head off of that.

At least with Vrabel there’s some track record to justify thinking he’ll have success vs. pretty much blind faith that he has in Mayo. It’s obviously not the same exact thing, but it does feel like their seemingly predetermination to hire him is rooted in some of the same non-football thinking.

Not against Vrabel as a candidate by any means, I just want a truly open-minded coaching search and process behind it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The Lions said they will permit Johnson (and Aaron Glenn) to do interviews between Thursday and Saturday.

Vrabel’s interview is first on Thursday and I am sure he is their leading candidate. They will get his pitch first. Then they will talk to Johnson that evening or Friday (I’m guessing) and get his pitch, and see if it’s better in some way than Vrabel’s. If BJ really knows their socks off then they will reconsider, but if it isn’t to that level then they call Vrabel up Friday night and say “job’s yours, man”.

Then assuming they hire Vrabel they’ll announce it and start building a staff, and they will be way out in front of most other organizations. Vrabel is the only “high tier” candidate who is eligible to be hired right away. Everyone else will generally need to wait until (I think) January 20th at the earliest to hire their coach, or later if that coach is still active in the postseason, which means that the Pats will get like a 2 weeks jump on poaching from other staffs. Big advantage.

When is the earliest Johnson can get hired if Detroit goes to the sb?

 

[n1997y]

When is the earliest Johnson can get hired if Detroit goes to the sb?

After his season ends. So, Feb 10.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Ben Johnson should get serious consideration
.

Why? He's done NOTHING AS A HC, and he won't be able to hold their hand as a 1st time HC.
EVERYONE thinks he'll be OC AND HC.. it's not going to happen.

 

[Ross12]

After his season ends. So, Feb 10.

Hence the dilemma… Hire Vrabel and start building a staff on January 10th before anyone else has even started, or hire Johnson and start building a staff on February 10th after everyone else has finished?

 

[captain stone]

I think what might too the scales for BJ might be that pats went with safe option for Mayo without looking at other candidates. In the case of BJ, if he blows them off with knowledge of offense, culture, defense and operations setup and liaison with front office that could tilt the scales. I am thinking BJ is going to be hyper motivated to give the pitch of his life to the pats.

Vrabel only negative might be his OC. If he says it's Josh McD it's gonna be tough . But Vrabel + McD + Saleh with TC McCartney and AVP in reduced roles, while retaining Springer and Wolf could tilt the scales for Vrabel.

Why?!? The dude completely ****ing SUCKS.

 

[captain stone]

If true, that would be a Damn Shame. Ownership first needs to hear what Ben Johnson has to say before they make Yet Again another hasty hiring of a familiar old face.

 

[captain stone]

Kraft needs to listen to Wolf and Highsmith and not make the decision himself.

No, Kraft does NOT need to listen to either Wolf OR Highsmith, both of whom will tell him only that We don't neeed no steeenking GM...

 

[VJCPatriot]

We need a GM and we need to interview all the top candidates.

I like Vrabel but I want them to do a thorough job this time. No fake interviews, Give it serious thought, who can take us to the next level and out of this current mess?

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I think what might too the scales for BJ might be that pats went with safe option for Mayo without looking at other candidates. In the case of BJ, if he blows them off with knowledge of offense, culture, defense and operations setup and liaison with front office that could tilt the scales. I am thinking BJ is going to be hyper motivated to give the pitch of his life to the pats.

Vrabel only negative might be his OC. If he says it's Josh McD it's gonna be tough . But Vrabel + McD + Saleh with TC McCartney and AVP in reduced roles, while retaining Springer and Wolf could tilt the scales for Vrabel.

That offensive staff sounds terrible. It’s not about them individually, it’s about the lack of shared vision. AVP and McCartney are rooted in the west coast offense. Continuity is great, but we don’t need Maye’s position coaches learning McDaniels’ EP offense with him. If McDaniels is the OC, then he needs to bring in staff that’s familiar with HIS system so the whole unit is being cohesively coached. You can’t just slop together guys with different philosophies.