The Official Vrabel vs Ben Johnson Discussion Thread

[Water Boy]

We have two legit HC candidates in Vrabel and Ben Johnson. Hoping together we can vet these guys as much as we can as fans. If it was your call who would you hire and why?

It's a tough decision.

Here's my initial layman's take. Admittedly I don't know much about BJ but hope to learn more.

Vrabel Pros:

Experienced
Won coach of the year
Proven good in game decision maker
Will instill culture of toughness/accountability
Strong defensively
Known HC commodity
Tight with Kraft

Vrabel Cons:

Had some losing seasons
Butted heads with management in TN
Potentially overvalued as coach based on Pats HOF status
Will be reliant on OC for offensive system with potential revolving door
Tight with Kraft

BJ Pros:

Offensive genius
Not susceptible to OC revolving door
Possibe Ray Agnew package deal
Wears tight pants
Great initials

BJ Cons:

Decent coaching experience but lack of NFL HC experience
Unknown HC Commodity

At this point I'd probably default to Vrabel given the fit and his proven experience, but the thought of passing on a potential Offensive mastermind definitley gives me pause.

 

[Froob]

I think I’d lean Johnson….but I’d want to know what the whole package is who he’s bringing with him.

 

[Love The Drake]

Johnson if the Krafts read this.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I think I’d lean Johnson….but I’d want to know what the whole package is who he’s bringing with him.

 

[signbabybrady]

Either one works for me.

Anyway to get them both?

 

[Tunescribe]

Vrabel yesterday, today and tomorrow. He has EXPERIENCE RUNNING A PROGRAM enhanced by institutional knowledge of the Patriots. Johnson is a wildcard. Please, no more first-year risks with this team's ongoing rebuild.

 

[PWRxWLF]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

 

[Tunescribe]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

It will be Vrabel, with Ryan Cowden doing personnel.

 

[Ross12]

Vrabel is my guy but I would be lying if I said I am not extremely intrigued by Johnson. I would be really pleased with either one. Vrabel feels like a better fit for what they “need” to fix what Mayo broke, but Johnson feels like a path to truly revolutionizing this franchise offensively.

 

[festy1986]

Should be Johnson. Will be Vrabel.

 

[Water Boy]

I think I’d lean Johnson….but I’d want to know what the whole package is who he’s bringing with him.

I'm hoping we get a solid idea of the coaching staffs they'll bring.

 

[Tunescribe]

Vrabel is my guy but I would be lying if I said I am not extremely intrigued by Johnson. I would be really pleased with either one. Vrabel feels like a better fit for what they “need” to fix what Mayo broke, but Johnson feels like a path to truly revolutionizing this franchise offensively.

Should be Johnson. Will be Vrabel.

Johnson reportedly is introverted and thin-skinned to where he might not mesh well with the New England vibe. Plus, there's no telling how he would fare trying to run an entire program -- he hasn't been a coordinator all that long. Yeah, he's the shiny new toy but there are too many questions around him for an ongoing rebuild that still requires some heavy lifting.

 

[Water Boy]

Here’s a ****ed up thought. What are the chances we don’t land either one. Who do we go after then?

I think it's clear Vrabel wants the job. I assume it has to be high on BJ's list too.

 

[festy1986]

Johnson reportedly is introverted and thin-skinned to where he might not mesh well with the New England vibe. Plus, there's no telling how he would fare trying to run an entire program -- he hasn't been a coordinator all that long. Yeah, he's the shiny new toy but there are too many questions around him for an ongoing rebuild that still requires some heavy lifting.

It's only Johnson to me because he represents what the league is now.

Vrabel way is the old school way and there's yet to be evidence that it still works.

 

[Tunescribe]

It's only Johnson to me because he represents what the league is now.

Vrabel way is the old school way and there's yet to be evidence that it still works.

Vrabel has a winning record and was NFL Coach of the Year. It still works. Johnson has never been a head coach. At this stage of their development the Patriots NEED someone who has successfully run a full program.

 

[Ross12]

Johnson reportedly is introverted and thin-skinned to where he might not mesh well with the New England vibe. Plus, there's no telling how he would fare trying to run an entire program -- he hasn't been a coordinator all that long. Yeah, he's the shiny new toy but there are too many questions around him for an ongoing rebuild that still requires some heavy lifting.

Funny enough, BJ is actually kind of an ******* (in a good way) sort of like Vrabel. Personalities have some crossover.

 

[festy1986]

Vrabel has a winning record and was NFL Coach of the Year. It still works. Johnson has never been a head coach. At this stage of their development the Patriots NEED someone who has successfully run a full program.

You realize he barely has a winning record right?

He's essentially a .500 coach.

Vrabel will bring law and order but what else is he bringing? He certainly isn't bringing any evidence that he knows a thing or two about QB play.

Vrabel thus far is who he is. He wins a game he loses a game. He makes the playoffs he misses the playoffs.

Maybe you're ok with that because the last 5 years have sucked but let's keep expectations in order here. We're not getting a world class coach. We're getting a serviceable coach.

 

[Brick27]

Vrabel was the move last year. Not so sure about this year. He felt like the ideal transition coach post Bill. The combination of familiarity, mixed with the layer of coaching and HC experience outside the organization. Able to bring a level of stability in an unstable time. More equipped to pick up the pieces following Bill’s historic run vs. a newbie.

As for going into next year? Not so sure. Don’t think the allure is nearly the same with the 2025 vs. 2024 circumstance for what he brings to the table.

 

[dliverey44]

This is tough for me because I like the idea of Johnson because I think he would be really good for Maye. I think that we need structure and discipline right now and we know that Vrabes can do that.

Vrabel has been working with the Browns on both sides of the ball and was involved in the draft and the top 30 visits. The Browns are more analytical than Vrabel was in Tennesee, so I am interested in what he learned and how he will proceed.

I have been impressed that BJ will only take interviews will teams he is interested in, that makes me feel like he will able to set himself up for success. BJ has been around some very good drafts and that is appealing.

Basically I have no idea what I would do right now.

 

[Tunescribe]

You realize he barely has a winning record right?

He's essentially a .500 coach.

Vrabel will bring law and order but what else is he bringing? He certainly isn't bringing any evidence that he knows a thing or two about QB play.

Vrabel thus far is who he is. He wins a game he loses a game. He makes the playoffs he misses the playoffs.

Maybe you're ok with that because the last 5 years have sucked but let's keep expectations in order here. We're not getting a world class coach. We're getting a serviceable coach.

Vrabel did well with average rosters (nobody at quarterback) going 54-45 making the playoffs in three of his six seasons, four of which had winning records. He was NFL Coach of the Year just three seasons ago. Ben Johnson has ONLY THREE YEARS EXPERIENCE AS A COORDINATOR! He is an unknown commodity beyond that re. running an entire program, let alone one in full-blown rebuild mode. Right -- "let's keep expectations in order here." Put down your Madden controller and step away from the shiny new toy with a fragile disposition that just might go haywire at the drop of a hat.