The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

[mgcolby]

This has been tried before in this thread and made no difference to those who simply, adamantly deny that there is even a possibility that BB would even CONSIDER trading Brady even though he's done it twice before (Bledsoe and Kosar).

Bledsoe won how many superbowls? Kosar won how many superbowls? How often are either of them mentioned as one of the greatest QB's (top 5) to ever play? Was Kosar in his prime? Was Bledsoe performing well?


The answer is NO! So please stop comparing apples to oranges. Just because BB has benched/traded away "fan favorites" in the past doesn't mean anything. He didn't do it because he likes the next big thing. He did it because they weren't performing on the field. No more, no less!

Has Brady at anypoint showed regression? No!

I have read in this thread that the folks who take my stance are doing so on emotion. I can't speak for everyone, but I am not using emotion, I am using logic, common sense and all of the facts available to me at this time. IMO, the trade Brady crowd is using emotion - Fear! The fear that Brady won't be able to return and play to form. That fear makes them long for the safe play and keep Cassel.

It has been mentioned, but it's worth repeating: Brady can not be traded until he can pass a physical. When he is able to pass a physical he will be playing in a Patriots uniform.

Brady is in his prime, name the last Franchise QB playing at a high level in his prime to be traded?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Bledsoe won how many superbowls? Kosar won how many superbowls? How often are either of them mentioned as one of the greatest QB's (top 5) to ever play? Was Kosar in his prime? Was Bledsoe performing well?


The answer is NO! So please stop comparing apples to oranges. Just because BB has benched/traded away "fan favorites" in the past doesn't mean anything. He didn't do it because he likes the next big thing. He did it because they weren't performing on the field. No more, no less!

Has Brady at anypoint showed regression? No!

I have read in this thread that the folks who take my stance are doing so on emotion. I can't speak for everyone, but I am not using emotion, I am using logic, common sense and all of the facts available to me at this time. IMO, the trade Brady crowd is using emotion - Fear! The fear that Brady won't be able to return and play to form. That fear makes them long for the safe play and keep Cassel.

It has been mentioned, but it's worth repeating: Brady can not be traded until he can pass a physical. When he is able to pass a physical he will be playing in a Patriots uniform.

Brady is in his prime, name the last Franchise QB playing at a high level in his prime to be traded?

That's what gets me too, how everyone who wants to see Brady traded thinks that we're being emotional for having an ounce of common sense, understanding the value of a franchise QB, and actually realizing that there's a substantial gap in skill between Cassel and Brady.

If Cassel was almost as good as Brady, I would at least entertain the concept of this whole "Trade Brady" thing. But he isn't, so I just think that is a genuinely dumb spectacle of irrational, knee-jerk reactions by a bunch of people who have forgotten that QBs can and do recover from knee injuries and that Brady is maybe the best QB of all time in the prime of his career.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm asserting no notion. I'm re-posting stuff from the time it went down.
I'm all about Brady staying, but I wouldn't get emotional or depressed if he WAS moved. That's how I feel about it.

Then, honestly, you're not a fan of this team or in you're case, have not been a fan of this team long enough.

Any real fan of the Patriots would be sad if Brady was traded because of what he's done for us. Fact. Nothing to do with future performance.

That has nothing to do with whether or not he QB's here long term, that's just human nature. For instance, I wasn't happy when we parted ways with Bledsoe, I was sad about it, and I was thankful for everything he did in his time here as well. But I knew it was the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with emotion. I was depressed when Willie Mac left, I will be sad when Bruschi goes, I was sad when Colvin was cut, etc.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Then, honestly, you're not a fan of this team or in you're case, have not been a fan of this team long enough.

Any real fan of the Patriots would be sad if Brady was traded because of what he's done for us. Fact. Nothing to do with future performance.

That has nothing to do with whether or not he QB's here long term, that's just human nature. For instance, I wasn't happy when we parted ways with Bledsoe, I was sad about it, and I was thankful for everything he did in his time here as well. But I knew it was the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with emotion. I was depressed when Willie Mac left, I will be sad when Bruschi goes, I was sad when Colvin was cut, etc.

Right on. The day that Brady is no longer a Patriot will truly suck. It will, and should, be just about the worst day to be a Patriot fan in the team's history. But that has nothing to do with why trading Brady is just a stupid idea.

 

[BradyManny]

Right on. The day that Brady is no longer a Patriot will truly suck. It will, and should, be just about the worst day to be a Patriot fan in the team's history. But that has nothing to do with why trading Brady is just a stupid idea.

Yup, exactly.

 

[BradyManny]

No one is saying that Cassel would step in and perform at the level that Brady had done the previous season. The point is Cassel has the potential judging from his first season as a starter to be pretty dynamic, coupled with a boondoggle of players coming from a Brady trade gives the Patriots a better chance of multiple championships in the future.
A previous post had mentioned Cassels inability to throw the long ball. In the past, there was a thread which many agreed that Brady could not throw the long ball. Judging Cassel on his first year as a starter (let alone playing time) as not being where Brady currently is, is decieving.
I never knew for fact that Bledsloe was going to be benched. Was that from a quote?

I've heard Curran & Holley both say it separately.

Brady has always been refining his long ball, but I think now its no coincidence that when he finally had a deep threat, he suddenly threw the best deep ball in the game, perhaps in history. Hindsight tells me that it wasn't that his deep ball was lacking in season priors, it was that he didn't have the threats to stretch the field.

But that's besides the point, I don't care about statistics, my eye balls tell me Brady in 2001 was a much better QB than Matt Cassel in 2008. Cassel played one truly good defense during the season in one truly big game, and he failed. Brady met every big game and every big defense, he single handedly took over the Snow Bowl game, which very well may be the game that started this entire dynasty. I'd rather have Matt Cassel than a huge portion of QBs in this league, but that doesn't mean he's a franchise QB.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love what Matt Cassel did for this team, and I wish he could remain a Patriot. But I wouldn't entrust the franchise to him. I have the feeling that whoever unloads some day 1 picks for him and hands him a huge contract might not be fully satisfied a couple years down the road. If teams are expecting Brady v 2.0, they won't be happy, and he may very well get paid like that.

 

[Lifer]

this is like if people were hollaring to trade Larry Bird in 1987. Its crazy, both on the field, and in terms of what Tom Brady means and has meant to the New England Patriots.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I've heard Curran & Holley both say it separately.

Brady has always been refining his long ball, but I think now its no coincidence that when he finally had a deep threat, he suddenly threw the best deep ball in the game, perhaps in history. Hindsight tells me that it wasn't that his deep ball was lacking in season priors, it was that he didn't have the threats to stretch the field.

But that's besides the point, I don't care about statistics, my eye balls tell me Brady in 2001 was a much better QB than Matt Cassel in 2008. Cassel played one truly good defense during the season in one truly big game, and he failed. Brady met every big game and every big defense, he single handedly took over the Snow Bowl game, which very well may be the game that started this entire dynasty. I'd rather have Matt Cassel than a huge portion of QBs in this league, but that doesn't mean he's a franchise QB.

Again, don't get me wrong, I love what Matt Cassel did for this team, and I wish he could remain a Patriot. But I wouldn't entrust the franchise to him. I have the feeling that whoever unloads some day 1 picks for him and hands him a huge contract might not be fully satisfied a couple years down the road. If teams are expecting Brady v 2.0, they won't be happy, and he may very well get paid like that.

I agree that everyone needs to calm down and realize that in games against KC, Denver, the Jets, the Dolphins, the Raiders, and the Cardinals, he had 18 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

Against San Diego, Indy, and Pittsburgh, he had 0 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. And these games weren't even in the beginning of the season, when he was understandably having trouble. I think that Cassel's a very good, young QB, but it also seems like people are a little too high on him right now. He's a legitimate starter in the NFL, but I didn't see a whole lot that made me think that he'll singlehandedly go out there and beat good teams like Brady can. Cassel isn't anything close to the QB that Brady is, and almost certainly never will be.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Good chance Bradford & Sanchez stay in school - Great news for Brady's trade valu

Most of the threads on this board could be disregarded based on the evidence which is presented to us. How many times has there been a thread which states we should trade a player (Seymour) or cut a player, sign a player that was just cut, and we know nothing about those players except what is printed in the media, BINGO.
Does Brady's unknown physical condition stop any one from posting about what we can get for Cassel or what team he might hook up with, after all, he is linked to Tom's physical condition, thus a moot point.
Hey, let's hypothesize that everything is peachykeen and wonder what a team might offer us for him. Oh right, that would be "moronic".

Right, and when people post "trade Seymour" threads, or "we should sign X player that some crappy team just cut (probably because the poster recognized their name based on the fact that the player was pretty good 5 years ago)" those threads get called out for being dumb too. If anything, it should actually be pretty telling that the majority of us find this thread even more stupid than those ones.

 

[BradyManny]

I agree that everyone needs to calm down and realize that in games against KC, Denver, the Jets, the Dolphins, the Raiders, and the Cardinals, he had 18 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

Against San Diego, Indy, and Pittsburgh, he had 0 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. And these games weren't even in the beginning of the season, when he was understandably having trouble. I think that Cassel's a very good, young QB, but it also seems like people are a little too high on him right now. He's a legitimate starter in the NFL, but I didn't see a whole lot that made me think that he'll singlehandedly go out there and beat good teams like Brady can. Cassel isn't anything close to the QB that Brady is, and almost certainly never will be.

My feelings exactly. I hate when I have to "bring Cassel down a peg", that's what it feels like I am doing, b/c I certainly feel sentimental attachment to the guy for his achievements this season. But his perceived value is greater than his actual value right now, and he's very trade-able, and we can get a lot for him. So we should do it. Its a no brainer.

 

[The_Riddler]

Troy Polamalu in today's Herald

"Tom Brady is the greatest QB to ever play"

Coming from a Steeler with alot of old Patriot wounds, I thank you.......

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I agree that everyone needs to calm down and realize that in games against KC, Denver, the Jets, the Dolphins, the Raiders, and the Cardinals, he had 18 touchdowns and 3 interceptions.

Against San Diego, Indy, and Pittsburgh, he had 0 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. And these games weren't even in the beginning of the season, when he was understandably having trouble.

But also remember that the Patriots were still playing relatively conservatively, so to speak, until the middle of the JEST game. Also, according to Football Outsiders, even if you adjust for the weakness of opposing defenses, the Patriots still improved significantly as the season progressed (in other words, they did even better against those weak defenses than one would expect them to).

 

[BradyManny]

But also remember that the Patriots were still playing relatively conservatively, so to speak, until the middle of the JEST game. Also, according to Football Outsiders, even if you adjust for the weakness of opposing defenses, the Patriots still improved significantly as the season progressed (in other words, they did even better against those weak defenses than one would expect them to).

According to Football Outsiders, Cassel was 20th in the league in DVOA at 6% (just posted in another thread in response to Synovia's football outsiders stats). If I'm not mistaken, Brady set the record for highest DVOA of all time last year. So, worth throwing it out there for comparison's sake.

 

[BradyFTW!]

But also remember that the Patriots were still playing relatively conservatively, so to speak, until the middle of the JEST game. Also, according to Football Outsiders, even if you adjust for the weakness of opposing defenses, the Patriots still improved significantly as the season progressed (in other words, they did even better against those weak defenses than one would expect them to).

Doesn't change the fact that he had 0 TDs and 4 INTs against Pittsburgh, Indy, and San Diego. I'll definitely agree that he got better as the season went on, and that he's a legitimately good QB, but are you guys seriously comparing him to Brady?

 

[BradyFTW!]

According to Football Outsiders, Cassel was 20th in the league in DVOA at 6% (just posted in another thread in response to Synovia's football outsiders stats). If I'm not mistaken, Brady set the record for highest DVOA of all time last year. So, worth throwing it out there for comparison's sake.

Stop being an overly emotional, knee-jerk Brady homer!!

 

[BradyManny]

Stop being an overly emotional, knee-jerk Brady homer!!

LOL, I know.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

Then, honestly, you're not a fan of this team or in you're case, have not been a fan of this team long enough.

Any real fan of the Patriots would be sad if Brady was traded because of what he's done for us. Fact. Nothing to do with future performance.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots football team. The New England Patriots, that is who I am a fan of.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bob Kraft. I was a fan of the team before Kraft bought the team and will continue to be a fan if he sells it. This is not to say I will not forever be greatfull to him for what he has done for this team, I will be. But if Kraft was to sell the Patriots and then a few years later buy the Colts, I am still rooting for the Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Scott Pioli. I was a fan of the Patriots before Scott was hired. I appreciate all he has done for New England and wish him well. But to the extend his drafting well hurts the Patriots drafting I wish him only misery and busts. I hope each and every meeting between KC and NEP is heartwrenchingly horrible for him to watch as his team gets destroyed by 50 or more points. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bill Belichick. I hated Bill Belichick when he was the defensive coordinator for the New York Jets. My love for the genius with poor fashion sense is solely based on him being the coach of the New England Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Adam Vinertari. I rooted for him when he won us superbowls and root against him now that he is Colt. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Wes Welker. When he was playing for the Dolphins, I hated that little sneak that our secondary could not cover. Only now that he is a Patriot do I love our little sneak. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

Are you a fan of Tom Brady or a fan of the New England Patriots?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

According to Football Outsiders, Cassel was 20th in the league in DVOA at 6% (just posted in another thread in response to Synovia's football outsiders stats). If I'm not mistaken, Brady set the record for highest DVOA of all time last year. So, worth throwing it out there for comparison's sake.

Yes, although in 2003--which is not an unreasonable comparison--his DVOA was about the same as Cassel's this year (~5.5%).

Also, Cassel had the most effective running game of any QB this year (over the entire season, based on quantity and quality; on a per-play basis he was 5th).

 

[BradyManny]

Yes, although in 2003--which is not an unreasonable comparison--his DVOA was about the same as Cassel's this year (~5.5%).

Also, Cassel had the most effective running game of any QB this year (over the entire season, based on quantity and quality; on a per-play basis he was 5th).

It is an unreasonable comparison b/c Cassel was taking over for the most explosive passing offense in history stacked with receiving weapons.

 

[BradyManny]

I am a fan of the New England Patriots football team. The New England Patriots, that is who I am a fan of.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bob Kraft. I was a fan of the team before Kraft bought the team and will continue to be a fan if he sells it. This is not to say I will not forever be greatfull to him for what he has done for this team, I will be. But if Kraft was to sell the Patriots and then a few years later buy the Colts, I am still rooting for the Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Scott Pioli. I was a fan of the Patriots before Scott was hired. I appreciate all he has done for New England and wish him well. But to the extend his drafting well hurts the Patriots drafting I wish him only misery and busts. I hope each and every meeting between KC and NEP is heartwrenchingly horrible for him to watch as his team gets destroyed by 50 or more points. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Bill Belichick. I hated Bill Belichick when he was the defensive coordinator for the New York Jets. My love for the genius with poor fashion sense is solely based on him being the coach of the New England Patriots. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Adam Vinertari. I rooted for him when he won us superbowls and root against him now that he is Colt. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

I am a fan of the New England Patriots. I am not a fan of Wes Welker. When he was playing for the Dolphins, I hated that little sneak that our secondary could not cover. Only now that he is a Patriot do I love our little sneak. I am a fan of the New England Patriots.

Are you a fan of Tom Brady or a fan of the New England Patriots?

I've been a fan of the New England Patriots long before Brady played on this team. If I listed my top 5 favorite Pats of all time, Bledsoe would be in there. And I was more than OK with trading Bledsoe, I was for it. I am able to have emotional ties from the team, but also deal with the team rationally, as well.

I am a fan of Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Bob Kraft, etc., etc.

But congratulations to you on being such a big huge Patriot fan that you don't like any of its players. I guess that makes you a better fan than me in some bizarro world. Its really helping you be objective and continue to perpetuate this stupid trade idea without any basis in reality.