The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

u guys want for the Pats to get rid of arguably the best QB to ever play the game.....for a guy that weve only see play a season since high school...

The fact that Brady was the best QB ever to play the game is kind of irrelevant at this point. Pedro Martinez had arguably the best 3 years a pitcher has ever had, should the red sox go trade for him now?


Brady was seriously hurt. He's over 30. The vast majority of players hurt over 30 never regain their previous form. Brady is a big question mark right now.

He could be 100%, but he also could have reduced mobility. If he can't slide in the pocket, and gets sacked 50 times a year instead of 15, hes not going to be worth a whole lot. Cassel in 2008 is arguably as good as Brady has ever been (except 2007). Whose to say 2007 Brady wasn't the fluke year.

Brady has been the starter 7 years. 4 of them were in the 26TD, 14 INT, 3600 yds area. 1 more was 26td, 14 INT, 4100 yds. The two remaining were his rookie year, and last year.


Brady was a rookie, then he put up consistent similar seasons for 5 years, and then had one huge season. THERE IS A CHANCE that 2007 was an aberation.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

How about showing some damn loyalty already,?

Loyalty is the thing that gets you 6 years of Matt Millen. Good teams make decisions on future predicted performance, not past results, loyalty, or anything else.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Loyalty is the thing that gets you 6 years of Matt Millen. Good teams make decisions on future predicted performance, not past results, loyalty, or anything else.

Tom Brady is NOT Matt Millen. He is arguably one of the top 3 QB's to ever play the game. He has shown NOTHING to indicate that he doesn’t have the fire, competitiveness, and TOUGHNESS that it takes to come back from this type of injury. The guy is a winner. Flat out. You all should be embarrassed for not having a little more faith in the guy.

Shame on you all.

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

This is EXACTLY why I hope that he's traded. The last two posts say it all. (before MO's post)
There will be ANARCHY in this town if Cassel is traded. NO ONE will care if Brady is traded. Who knows, they might just CUT HIM. Why not? He has a gimpy knee. Why waste cap room on him. What has he ever done in this league anyway?

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

He could be 100%, but he also could have reduced mobility. If he can't slide in the pocket, and gets sacked 50 times a year instead of 15, hes not going to be worth a whole lot. Cassel in 2008 is arguably as good as Brady has ever been (except 2007). Whose to say 2007 Brady wasn't the fluke year.

Cassel was dealing with a set of weapons that Brady never had, except 2007.

The only frame of reference we have for comparing Cassel to Brady is 2007:2008, and as I said in another thread, the drop-off between the two is epic and unprecedented.

As for 2007 being a fluke year, that's laughable, Brady's 2004 & 2005 stats, with much lesser weapons and a different offense, are better than Cassel's in 2008.

As for Brady's mobility and getting sacked, Cassel got sacked 47 times last year. If you want mobility, you're better off going with O'Connell.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Tom Brady is NOT Matt Millen. He is arguably one of the top 3 QB's to ever play the game. He has shown NOTHING to indicate that he doesn’t have the fire, competitiveness, and TOUGHNESS that it takes to come back from this type of injury. The guy is a winner. Flat out. You all should be embarrassed for not having a little more faith in the guy.

Faith? FAITH? You think a team should make decisions based on FAITH?


Brady's 2007 is the best season a QB has ever had. That doesn't guarantee hes going to continue to be that good.


Coming back from an injury isn't about "HEAR" or "FIRE", its about healing. You can't just will back full motion.

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Faith? FAITH? You think a team should make decisions based on FAITH?


Brady's 2007 is the best season a QB has ever had. That doesn't guarantee hes going to continue to be that good.


Coming back from an injury isn't about "HEAR" or "FIRE", its about healing. You can't just will back full motion.

I hope that Cassel NEVER gets injured. God help us all if our FO takes your approach. Who would we have left to QB the team?

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Cassel was dealing with a set of weapons that Brady never had, except 2007.

Correct. Completely. Cassel was also a first year starter with those weapons. Brady had been starting for 6+ years.
The only frame of reference we have for comparing Cassel to Brady is 2007:2008, and as I said in another thread, the drop-off between the two is epic and unprecedented.

As for 2007 being a fluke year, that's laughable, Brady's 2004 & 2005 stats, with much lesser weapons and a different offense, are better than Cassel's in 2008.

Again, in 2004 and 2005, Brady had been starting for 4 years. Cassel has started 15 games. QBs tend to improve over their first 48 or so starts.

As for Brady's mobility and getting sacked, Cassel got sacked 47 times last year. If you want mobility, you're better off going with O'Connell.

Cassel was sacked at a rate of 4 times a game at the beginning of the season, and was down to twice a game by the end. You do realize that his first year starting, Brady was sacked 41 times, in 15 games,right?

 

[JSn]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

The problem with this discussion is going to always be heart vs. head, or more appropriately, trying to have a balanced, even-handed business view of the situation versus those with an emotional TFB man-crush.

I keep saying it, I want Tom to play and be the soul-crusher he is known to be, but I don't want to watch our team hang it's hat on the past and stumble through the next three seasons either.

I will go on record saying only this:

If we trade Cassel and Brady can't go or turns out to have fallen off drastically, there will be much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on THIS VERY forum.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

I hope that Cassel NEVER gets injured. God help us all if our FO takes your approach. Who would we have left to QB the team?

The same guys as if we trade Cassel, and Brady isn't healthy.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Faith? FAITH? You think a team should make decisions based on FAITH?


Brady's 2007 is the best season a QB has ever had. That doesn't guarantee hes going to continue to be that good.


Coming back from an injury isn't about "HEAR" or "FIRE", its about healing. You can't just will back full motion.

Put in order the three things you think are most likely to continue:

1) Matt Cassel plays to the level he did in 2008.
2) Tom Brady plays to the level he did in 2007.
3) Kevin O'Connell matches the play of Matt Cassel in 2008.

Tom Brady has a history of being one of the best QBs in the league. He has done it with and without good weapons. Matt Cassel has not. Kevin O'Connel very well have as much success as Matt Cassel, if he has the same weapons. If Cassel lost Moss or Welker, he very well may be unsuitable as a starter.

So tell me why, then, would you pay 14 million to keep Cassel here when we have two other viable options at QB. Your argument makes no sense. I like Cassel, I thank him for his time here, but there is no way he remains a New England Patriot, he has played himself out of the chance of that happening.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

If we trade Cassel and Brady can't go or turns out to have fallen off drastically, there will be much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on THIS VERY forum.

The problem with your argument is that its a lot more likely Cassel turns out to be a very expensive Scott Mitchell. The Pats drafted Kevin O'Connel for a reason.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Faith? FAITH? You think a team should make decisions based on FAITH?


Brady's 2007 is the best season a QB has ever had. That doesn't guarantee hes going to continue to be that good.


Coming back from an injury isn't about "HEAR" or "FIRE", its about healing. You can't just will back full motion.

The FANS should be showing a little more faith in his ability to do the work necessary to rehab that knee back to where it needs to be. NOTHING in Brady’s history suggests that he will give anything less than 100% in working his way back on to the field.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Put in order the three things you think are most likely to continue:

1) Matt Cassel plays to the level he did in 2008.
2) Tom Brady plays to the level he did in 2007.
3) Kevin O'Connell matches the play of Matt Cassel in 2008.

Tom Brady has a history of being one of the best QBs in the league. He has done it with and without good weapons. .

Tom Brady has a history of throwing for 3650 yds, 26 TDs, and 14INTs. Hes done this for 5 out of his 7 years as a starter.


I'm not saying that the Pats should trade Brady. I think they should be considering it. I think its more likely that Cassel is a good QB, then that Brady is going to continue to put up 50 TDs a season.


Thinking that Brady is going to be the Brady of 2007 every year is like, after 2006, thinking David Ortiz is going to continue to hit 55 home runs every year.

 

[Synovia]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

The problem with your argument is that its a lot more likely Cassel turns out to be a very expensive Scott Mitchell. The Pats drafted Kevin O'Connel for a reason.

Yes, they did. Having an developmental QB on the roster is always a good thing.

How many first, second and third round QBs did the Packers draft while Favre was the starter?

 

[ALP]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

the is no heart in this

but to assume that brady cant come back from an injury is stupid, and to trade brady w/o TESTING weather or not he is 100% is complete lunacy

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

The problem with this discussion is going to always be heart vs. head, or more appropriately, trying to have a balanced, even-handed business view of the situation versus those with an emotional TFB man-crush.

I keep saying it, I want Tom to play and be the soul-crusher he is known to be, but I don't want to watch our team hang it's hat on the past and stumble through the next three seasons either.

I will go on record saying only this:

If we trade Cassel and Brady can't go or turns out to have fallen off drastically, there will be much weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on THIS VERY forum.

And if we GET RID OF BRADY and Cassel turns out to be just another QB while Brady recovers and leads another team to a Championship, what will the reaction be around here? Oh wait no one will care. Brady hasn't done much in this league anyway. Let the Cassel era begin.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Tom Brady has a history of throwing for 3650 yds, 26 TDs, and 14INTs. Hes done this for 5 out of his 7 years as a starter.


I'm not saying that the Pats should trade Brady. I think they should be considering it. I think its more likely that Cassel is a good QB, then that Brady is going to continue to put up 50 TDs a season.


Thinking that Brady is going to be the Brady of 2007 every year is like, after 2006, thinking David Ortiz is going to continue to hit 55 home runs every year.

If Brady was a ProBowl QB with average to slightly above average weapons and the best QB of all time with great weapons, why is it unreasonable to think he will continue to play at a high level, particularly considering those same weapons are there?

As for Cassel, again, the only reference point we have is comparing the 07 Brady season to Cassel's 08, which is a ginormous drop off. You want to talk about risky, handing 20-30 million guaranteed over to Cassel is risky, yet there are teams desperate enough out there to do it, so we should take advantage of them while we can and get draft picks from them.

 

[BradyManny]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

Yes, they did. Having an developmental QB on the roster is always a good thing.

How many first, second and third round QBs did the Packers draft while Favre was the starter?

I dunno, they drafted Aaron Rodgers. What's your point? My point is they drafted Kevin O'Connell to be Brady's backup. He's been in the league a year, the team was high on him, and the other option at backup would cost them $14 million.

 

[JSn]

Re: Does Pioli's hiring make KC a potential suitor for Brady?

the is no heart in this

funny, a guy at 7-11 said this to me and I didn't understand it then either...

but to assume that brady cant come back from an injury is stupid, and to trade brady w/o TESTING weather or not he is 100% is complete lunacy

Obviously, if he wasn't healthy, he wouldn't be trade-able. No thinks he won't regain his ability to be a QB. The question is, will he still be the TFB that's giving out football woodies all across this forum?

If Bill believes Matt is a better long term value to the team, Brady is gone. Super-simple. Doesn't mean Tom doesn't have a few good years left, but Matt could have 10 of them left.

I just think you have to try and see the business projections at work here. It's simply about winning and monetary value. I don't believe the considerations go beyond that, and I expect everyone in the organization understands this.