The official "Branch is dead to me" thread.

[ClosingTime]

I would not be mad at Deion playing hard ball, aggressively negotiating or even holding out to get negotioations going. But he is holding out without even making a counter offer. He is pouting waiting for the promise of not being franchised. That is re-gawddamn-diculus.

He is essentially saying that he will not negotiate until the teams only leverage is off the table. That is not hard ball, that is bad faith.

How do you know if counteroffers were made? But say he didn't, that is hardball. He and his agent said that was unacceptanble, come back when you are serious. Branch and his agent have made it pretty clear what type of contract he is looking for and the Pats FO knows that.

And dry, of course there are a lot of things in football that doesn't apply to real life work but the principle still applies

 

[upstater1]

BRanch is coming back to the Pats this year, he has no choice. But if a deal doesn't get done you can forget about it next year. Have fun rooting for a player you dislike just cause of normal business practices.
And if anyone here would stay with a company that paid them less than they were worth and didn't play hardball to renegotiate they are an idiot.

This puts you into a category with geniuses like Ty Law.

 

[upstater1]

He and his agent said that was unacceptanble, come back when you are serious. Branch and his agent have made it pretty clear what type of contract he is looking for and the Pats FO knows that./QUOTE]

The problem is that Deion doesn't have the leverage to tell the Patriots what's acceptable and unacceptable. looking down his nose at 6.3m and making demands on the Patriots is the height of stupidity when, 1, he already has one year left on his contract, and 2, the Patriots offer is already at the franchise tag number.

That's really dumb of him to dictate terms to a team that has him by the balls.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

One way or another, we'll see him later this month. He can shoot for whatever he wants. If he wants to demand that the Pats agree not to franchise him, that BB must streak nekkid through Gillette if he catches 100 balls, and that he be referred to as His Royal Branchness, he can. Of course, you can't always get what you want.

Part of negotiations is the water-torture-like passage of days, especially in a holdout situation.

Question for Branch and his agent though: Assuming Chad comes back, and if -- just if -- he comes out performing right out of the gate (unlikely as that is or if[/] -- just if -- Reche Caldwell makes a huge leap this year, where does that leave him after this season?

Suddenly he's a guy who didn't even notch 1,000 yards, wanting #1 receiver money when the Pats #1 guy is always first among equals. He'll be another year away from his big supposed talking point, his SB MVP. He'll be recovering from a season in which he held out (never good in the eyes of the next team,) and then missed some production early in the season as he played catchup (quite a likely possibility, especially if timing between he and Tom gets screwed up.)

So, there you have it. It "doesn't make sense" for the Pats not to spend on Branch? Well, it "doesn't make sense" for him to hold out either. Yet there is a method to the madness of both sides.

I don't hate Deion for trying his best to get what he wants. I just don't think he's getting it.

PFnV

 

[Pats726]

Exactly.

Some people here are linking Deion's agent's actions to Deion. Deion hired his agent to be the 'bad cop' and try to get as much as possible for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been completely hands off during the entire negotiation.

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Yes..and you are pretty DUMB if you do not understand the link...
agent.."one who is authorized to act for or in the place of another"..basically acting FOR the Twig..a puppet OF Branch...If he's taken his hands off, he's having many detrimental things done in his name. All the yapping and mouthing off against the Pats organization if anything has made fans go against his client..believe me..Branch us in the back of all of this without question.

 

[mcbee]

Actually it was Tom Hagen.

Tom Hagen wasn't even Sicilian. And he didn't know of Luca Brasi's fater as later in the movie he tells Sollozzo that he needed to worry about him. Sollozo's response..."you let us worry about Luca Brasi".

AS I remember it, it was TEssio (Abe Vigoda) but I've heard some people say it was Clemenza.

 

[maverick4]

Yes..and you are pretty DUMB if you do not understand the link...

You are naive if you don't think that athletes frequently give their agent free reign on how to proceed with negotiations. Especially if the athlete feels he does not have enough skill/knowledge/experience in negotiations, he will just agree with whatever his agent tells him to do in terms of tactics.

I'm not going to say Branch has had no say. I'm sure that he feels underpaid and wants more money. However, it's not hard to believe that his agent has used Branch's anger and talked him into some misguided choices or actions (kind of like the American people with Bush and Iraq). Woops, did that last line go too far?

.

 

[Pats726]

One way or another, we'll see him later this month.

Actually that is not the case..He could show up, but he could also stay out till Game 10, I believe, and then he would need to report OR lose this season as an acrued season...(meaning he would NOT be a FA after this year..) This option, the worst, might make the twig be inactive for the rest of the year..and thus, would have little to no numbers..and really what kind if leverage for free agency?? I think he loses big time with that one.

Question for Branch and his agent though: Assuming Chad comes back, and if -- just if -- he comes out performing right out of the gate (unlikely as that is or if[/] -- just if -- Reche Caldwell makes a huge leap this year, where does that leave him after this season?

This is a big question..and a good one..What if the Pats make a move for a big wideout and they have another vet, Jackson and Caldwell??
Branch may have effectively pushed himself out of playing time and a spot high on the roster. Do you think the Patriots wil not make a move??? Believe me they will NOT be held hostage..by any player!!

Suddenly he's a guy who didn't even notch 1,000 yards, wanting #1 receiver money when the Pats #1 guy is always first among equals. He'll be another year away from his big supposed talking point, his SB MVP. He'll be recovering from a season in which he held out (never good in the eyes of the next team,) and then missed some production early in the season as he played catchup (quite a likely possibility, especially if timing between he and Tom gets screwed up.)

He basically may have put himself in a position where he is putting his getting bucks next year into jeopardy. Maybe he's missing it all..or believing in an arrogant no nothing lawyer who doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[BJ_McWild]

Well my feeling on this is that it really makes the Chad Jackson @ #36 overall pick look even more awesomely brilliant than it looked on draft day.

I know Chad has missed some camp time with a hammy but he will be a beast, there's no doubt in my mind.

I say to Branch, show up for work or you're fired.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

like I said earlier, he will most likely play for us for free if he holds out any longer,(fines that is)
He will show up...I just don't see him here beyond 2006....as for sleeping with the fishes, well, he might just have to sleep with BB to get past this screw up!

 

[njpatsfan]

Tom Hagen wasn't even Sicilian. And he didn't know of Luca Brasi's fater as later in the movie he tells Sollozzo that he needed to worry about him. Sollozo's response..."you let us worry about Luca Brasi".

AS I remember it, it was TEssio (Abe Vigoda) but I've heard some people say it was Clemenza.

It was just on last night on AMC. It was Clemenza.

SONNY

Hey, Mickey, tomorrow -- get a couple of guys, you go over to Luca's apartment; hang

around, waitin' for him to show up...

TOM

Uh maybe we shouldn't get Mike uh mixed up in this too directly

SONNY

Yeah, listen, uh... hang around the house on the phone an' be a big help, huh?

(then)

Try Luca again -- ga'head

[Tessio enters with package, which he places on Sonny's lap]

SONNY (unwrapping the package of Luca's bulletproof vest-wrapped fish]

What the hell is this?

CLEMENZA

It's a Sicilian message. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.

[Michael hangs up the phone]

R

 

[DaBruinz]

You called Branch a '****' because HIS AGENT refused 6M, and you said 'he's dead to me' because the difference of a million per year was not a big difference to you at all.

Question: Did you hate Seymour for doing the exact same thing last year, and do you still hate him now that he's signed?

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Sorry, but the Seymour situation was totally different just by virtue of the fact that Branch is not in the same class as Seymour. Also, Seymour's agent DID negotiate. Chayut has done no such thing. He told the pats to F**K off and that Deion would be holding out of camp unless the Patriots guaranteed that they wouldn't use the Franchise tag on Branch next year.

 

[maverick4]

Sorry, but the Seymour situation was totally different just by virtue of the fact that Branch is not in the same class as Seymour. Also, Seymour's agent DID negotiate. Chayut has done no such thing. He told the pats to F**K off and that Deion would be holding out of camp unless the Patriots guaranteed that they wouldn't use the Franchise tag on Branch next year.

You're completely right.

But I won't hold Branch's idiot agent against him.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok, The Pat's organization should have nipped this in the bud last year with David Givens...

They attempted to. Givens turned them down. Just like Branch did. Givens had made up his mind to leave this year and its obvious that Branch plans on leaving next year.

One: we wouldn't have lost him to Tenn., and would have probably signed him to much less money & signing Bonus.

Not true. Givens wanted Hines Ward money. The Pats offered him a deal around 5 years and $18 million. Givens walked because Tennessee offered 5 years and $24 million. #1 receiver money. Which Givens is not.

Two: It would have set a precedence for Branch's contract negotiations this year (Plus Grahams contract coming up as well) not the other way around as it has now turned out.

What more precedent do you want? The Pats attempted to negotiate with Givens last year. They also attempted to negotiate with Branch. Both turned down the Patriots offer flatly.

Three: The Watson hold-out for 18 days and signing for 6.8Mil over 6 years is about Half a mil more that Dieon gets now....

The Watson hold-out was due to Tom Condon not wanting his client to sign a 6 year deal. It had nothing to do with the amount of money.

So where does that leave the pats? They have never been in the belief that offensive players should command A lot of or, a majority of the teams money (except QB & RB) Deion is a great receiver, but can he stay healthy for an entire year? Can he beat double coverage? (even he admits it is difficult for him to do)

Deion is not a great receiver. He's a good one.

With this in Mind, and The knowledge that The Pats offered 6mil a year (speculation on the truth to this, and if so how much is back loaded/incentive/etc.) for Deion to still hold out, can only mean that he is posturing for an out, and this will most likely be his last year in New England. He has his rings, His Super bowl MVP, Now comes his payday...There can be no other explanation. Too many players have left with comparable money laid on the table for them to stay.

The Pats offer was a straight extension that would have paid Branch 4+ million in signing bonus this year (on top of his current contract), it would have been the minimum again next year with another 4+ million as the second tier of the signing bonus. And then 4.3 and 4.7 million over each of the last 2 years of the contract. One thing that wasn't mentioned by Borges, but has since been mentioned is that Branch would also receiver 300K in a workout bonus each year (another 1.2 million on the contract). And none of this includes any incentives that might have been listed.

I will root for Deion when he plays, but to hold out of camp hurts the team, especially Brady and his timing/new plays...It is a business, and so far he now owes almost 126,000 in fines, He better start showing up soon, or this year he might just play for us for free...

 

[dryheat44]

Tom Hagen wasn't even Sicilian. And he didn't know of Luca Brasi's fater as later in the movie he tells Sollozzo that he needed to worry about him. Sollozo's response..."you let us worry about Luca Brasi".

AS I remember it, it was TEssio (Abe Vigoda) but I've heard some people say it was Clemenza.

No, he was German/Irish...however he was consiglieri and knew enough. Now maybe I'm wrong and it was Clemenza. But I believe Brasi was still alive when Solozzo said that line.

 

[DaBruinz]

This is going to be hilarious when Deion re-signs in a week or two for 6.5-7/year.

Since the Patriots took their last offer off the table and said they wouldn't be negotiating if Deion didn't show up to camp, I'm afraid to say that this scenario is highly unlikely.

Since Branch will be 'dead to you', will you boo him when he catches a pass? Will you just plain ignore him? Will you boo Branch in the same game that you cheer Seymour after a sack, even though both players basically did the same thing?

The scenarios are significantly different. But you just want to gloss over the garbage that Chayut has spouted and pretend it didn't happen.

To put things in perspective, what Vinatieri did was much worse. He signed with a hated rival, and immediately started trash talking about the Pats. All Deion Branch has done is sign an inept agent who has bungled his salary for the past 4 years, and continues to rely on this agent's idiotic advice.

Sorry, but that doesn't put anything into perspective. You are comparing apples to oranges.

I think a lot of really talented people sometimes choose the wrong agents, and sometimes put too much blind trust/faith in those people, which leads to bad decisions. It doesn't mean Deion Branch is an ass or a greedy player. He is probably just pissed, justifiably so, because he has been one of the most underpaid players in the entire league for a long period of time.

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Actually, it does mean that Deion is an ass and a greedy player. And it also makes him a liar to boot.

And no, its NOT justifyably so. Deion has only had 1 year where he wasn't injured and that is because the Pats coddled him through training camp. Deion also has NOT had more than 5 TDs and not had a 1000 yard season. At least Reggie Wayne has surpassed all 3 of those items.

I liken Deion Branch to Rod Tidwell right now. Deion Branch should follow Rod's example. Play out his contract and then see where the chips fall.
Holding out and having your agent act like a buffoon in the medio only hurts your chances.

 

[DaBruinz]

Exactly.

Some people here are linking Deion's agent's actions to Deion. Deion hired his agent to be the 'bad cop' and try to get as much as possible for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he has been completely hands off during the entire negotiation.

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If Deion was entirely "HANDS-OFF" as you say, that makes him totally stupid to boot. A player's agent is supposed to represent the player. That means, what the agent says is the equivalent to what the player says. The fact that Deion hasn't fired Chayut yet tells me that, not only is Deion a liar, he doesn't deserve a raise because he's not smart enough to know what to do with it.

 

[DaBruinz]

How do you know if counteroffers were made? But say he didn't, that is hardball. He and his agent said that was unacceptanble, come back when you are serious. Branch and his agent have made it pretty clear what type of contract he is looking for and the Pats FO knows that.

And dry, of course there are a lot of things in football that doesn't apply to real life work but the principle still applies

ClosingTime - We know that counter-offers haven't been made because Branch's agent has said so. He's comoe out and said that he did NOT reply to the Patriots offer other than to say that Branch would be holding out of training camp unless the Patriots agreed not to put the Franchise tag on him. You'd know this if you had actually read ANY of the articles that have come out, whether it be in SI, the Globe, or the Herald.

The Patriots response to Chayut's ultimatum was to tell him that they expected Branch in training camp and if he didn't show up, then the offer was off the table and there would be no more negotiations. Chayut isn't more stubborn than Belichick. Guaranteed.

Also, Chayut has said in the papers what he/Branch expects, but Branch hasn't earned a Reggie Wayne type contract. Heck, I think the contract that the Patriots offered him was on the high side, but that's just me.

 

[Miguel]

One thing that wasn't mentioned by Borges, but has since been mentioned is that Branch would also receiver 300K in a workout bonus each year (another 1.2 million on the contract). And none of this includes any incentives that might have been listed.

Not that it really matters, but the way I read Reiss' piece was that it was $300,000 over the 4 years or $75,000 a year.

"The breakdown in talks traces to May, when the Patriots attempted to spark negotiations by offering Branch a contract extension through 2009. The offer included a $4 million signing bonus and $4 million option bonus payable in 2007. Branch's base salary for 2006 would be $1.045 million, followed by salaries of $1.4 million in 2007, $4.3 million in 2008, and $4.75 million in 2009. The deal also included workout bonuses of $300,000. Over the four years of the deal, Branch would be paid just shy of $5 million per year. Assessing only the three years added to the original contract, plus bonus money, Branch would be averaging about $6.25 million per year."

 

[DaBruinz]

You are naive if you don't think that athletes frequently give their agent free reign on how to proceed with negotiations. Especially if the athlete feels he does not have enough skill/knowledge/experience in negotiations, he will just agree with whatever his agent tells him to do in terms of tactics.

And that makes the player Naive, IGNORANT and STUPID. A player can and SHOULD tell the agent exactly how he wants the negotiations conducted. Whether or not he wants it done "No Holds Barred" or if he wants it done cordially. If the agent doesn't follow those directions, then its Branch's responsibility to discipline the agent. If the inappropriate behavior continues, then its Branch's responsibility to replace the agent with someone who will represent Branch the way Branch wants to be represented.