The official "Branch is dead to me" thread.

[PatsWorldChamps]

You are myopic...and obviously one who has little understanding of what the Patriot FO does and has done. Frankly, the way the twig and his mouthpiece have been acting and saying, I think the Patriot's offer is VERY fair!! To pay him MORE is downright foolish...he's NOT worth it..I really don't care whether he is happy or not..he's shown how classless he and his agent are..Behavior like that DOES NOT get rewarded!! you reward crap bevior like that and then every player will do the same..SORRY if you believe what you do..go cheer for the Colts or some other loser team.

we need bruschi to kick the s.h.i.t out of him... some guys lay it all out for the good of the TEAM (tedy,brady), and some guys want it all handed to them (DB)... F DB... force him to play this year, then franchise him next year... great deal for the pats with no risk of injury.

 

[PatsWorldChamps]

question: what is the difference between $5M/year and $6M/year? none. either way you have all the money you could ever spend... but by holding out, over 1 million new england fans (who each make less than $1M/year) now think you are a d.i.c.k.h.e.a.d.

 

[the taildragger]

1. Any fan who thinks Deion is a bad teammate needs their head examined.

2. TC holdouts are a common tactic in the FA/cap era...get used to it, we'll be seeing more of them. Yeah, the fines went up but they're still miniscule compared to all the new money in these deals. The higher fines just works against the little guy...it doesn't hurt the big fish in the least.

3. Chayut is asking for as much as possible and the Pats are trying to spend as little as possible. If any of this surprises you I'm deeply sorry.

4. I've heard the new CBA makes the cap skyrocket up to $130M in the next few years...guess what that does?, it raises the value of any deals that get done right now to unheard of levels. Chayut knows this. Pioli knows this.

I understand the frustration, but the fingerpointing is just sad. We'll forget any of this ever happened, and we'll all feel relieved when he's not playing out his final year for $1M on his way out the door.:bricks::horn::beersign:

 

[spacecrime]

If Branch re-signs, is Deion really 'not going to be Deion to you' anymore? Give me a break.

Why? Can't the guy have an opinion? Just becuase it doesn't match yours doesn't make it deserve a "give-me-a-break" crack.

You can still call him Deion, you can cheer him, you can write him fan mail. Others may have had enough. Others may be annoyed now and calm down later on.

They're all valid.

I see no reason for anyone to stifle how they feel or walk on eggshells because in the end they might feel differently. If anything, they are honest about how they feel, and not trying to match their feelings to what they "should" be feeling, or worrying about how they will feel tomorrow.

I forget who posted the original, but good for him. Good for the guys who will boo Vinatieri, too, and good for the guys who will cheer him.

Footback is back. It's an emotional game. We're emotional fans. Let's get crazy

(Now I have to get back to eh HoF game)

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

3. Chayut is asking for as much as possible and the Pats are trying to spend as little as possible. If any of this surprises you I'm deeply sorry.

No sir. Chayut is asking for a promise not to franchise tag Branch next year. Pats made an offer for an extension, Chayut said No. No counter, no negotiation, no nothing. Just a decline on the offer and the threat to sit out until the team agrees not to tag him next year. Subtle difference, but significant.

 

[maverick4]

You called Branch a '****' because HIS AGENT refused 6M, and you said 'he's dead to me' because the difference of a million per year was not a big difference to you at all.

Question: Did you hate Seymour for doing the exact same thing last year, and do you still hate him now that he's signed?

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[captain stone]

I'm giving this whole business 1 week, 2 weeks tops, before my relative disinterest becomes worry.
I didn't expect Branch to play more than 2 preseason games, anyway.
Besides, he really shouldn't need too many reps to get his timing down.
As an added bonus, by this time next fortnight, BB should realize that, aside from his top 4 (maybe 5= Bam), the rest of his WRs are garbage.
Patience, grasshoppers.

 

[DaBruinz]

be mad at the Patriots organization for being cheap, i dont know how much cap room they have, but i'm almost positive they have PLENTY. he will probably catch anywhere from 75-100 balls this year, and to still be in his rookie contract while doing that is ridiculous. he deserves more money, whether you think he should be asking for it or not.

What are you smoking? Some of Rickey's cheap stuff scrapped on his pipe?

The Patriots aren't being cheap or did you miss the part where they offered Branch a 3 year $18.75 million extension? The one where Branch and his agent told the Pats to F**K off and that Branch would be holding out of camp. You know, the same 3 year, 18.75 million extension that Branch and his agent didn't even send a counter-offer to. The same one that the Patriots told Branch that they expected him in camp and that the offer would be off the table if he didn't show up.

Branch and his agent chose this route. They are the ones who decided to act like Ty Law instead of Tom Brady or Tedy Bruschi. Heck, had Branch just asked for a 1 million bump with the agreement that they would work on a longer term deal to be completed by the end of camp, that would have been more professional.

Sorry, but this mess falls squarely on Branch. Not the Patriots.

 

[DaBruinz]

Calm down, everyone. For some reason, given past quotes, I think these are all attributable to decisions or suggestions by Branch's inept agent.

If Branch re-signs, is Deion really 'not going to be Deion to you' anymore? Give me a break.

I think the 'thanking his HS coach before the superbowl' Deion is much more accurate than the things we've heard about Deion over the past week.

These remind me of the Nomar Garciaparra spear campaign that happened, and it made me sick to hear all these bandwagon fans say Nomar was dead to them. Just use your heads and don't believe everything you read in the papers, people!

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Really, Maverick? So, Deion Branch being quoted (I believe on TV and in the newspapers) that he would be a man and honor is contract and then not showing up to camp (thereby not honoring his contract and making him a liar) is a smear against the man?

I didn't realize that telling the truth is smearing someone.

 

[DaBruinz]

1. Any fan who thinks Deion is a bad teammate needs their head examined.

A bad teammate? Don't know. Don't Care. A liar? Yep. He is that.

2. TC holdouts are a common tactic in the FA/cap era...get used to it, we'll be seeing more of them. Yeah, the fines went up but they're still miniscule compared to all the new money in these deals. The higher fines just works against the little guy...it doesn't hurt the big fish in the least.

Really? In a league with 1500-1700 players, how common is it? I think we're lucky to hear about 3-5 a year, not including rookies.

3. Chayut is asking for as much as possible and the Pats are trying to spend as little as possible. If any of this surprises you I'm deeply sorry.

If the Patriots were looking to spend as little as possible, then they wouldn't have offered Deion a 3 year extension that would pay him an additional 18.75 Million. They would let him play out his contract and then sign some other schlub off the streets.

As for Chayut, yes, he's trying to get as much as possible, but you seemed to have missed the boat here. Chayut didn't bother to send back an offer to the Patriots. He sent an Ultimatum to them telling them that his client would be holding out of camp unless the Patriots guaranteed NOT to use the Franchise Tag on Deion. Deion is NOT a superstar. He's NOT an Elite Receiver. Deion is not in the same class as Shaun Alexander or Richard Seymour or Tom Brady. Why should be be treated like he is?

4. I've heard the new CBA makes the cap skyrocket up to $130M in the next few years...guess what that does?, it raises the value of any deals that get done right now to unheard of levels. Chayut knows this. Pioli knows this.

Umm, you have heard incorrectly then because it doesn't "SKYROCKET" to $129 million until the 2009-2010 season. Unfortunately, its already been reported that the owners and the players were going to try and scramble and re-do the CBA prior to that. Also, by then, Deion's contract would be up so he'd be able to reap the rewards of that. OH, and the Salary Cap went up 17 million this year. Its only going up 7 next year. Then it levels off at 10 million per year. That's not a lot when you consider that teams have escalators and bonuses that have to be paid out as well.

I understand the frustration, but the fingerpointing is just sad. We'll forget any of this ever happened, and we'll all feel relieved when he's not playing out his final year for $1M on his way out the door.:bricks::horn::beersign:

Deion probably is on his way out the door because he knows that the Patriots have set him up to make a killing elsewhere. And he's going to leave. So be it. It shows that he lied through his teeth in the interview he did with ESPNtheMagazine last year when he said that money doesn't matter to him.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't usually delve into the dead to me threads, but since this is the current Branch thread of the evening I figured i'd add .02 or .03 cents to the debate here.

First, taildragger, there are oddly only 2 camp holdouts this season. That one is here and the other is the delusional Ashley Lelie really annoys me as a fan of the organization that chose - before Deion ever got here - to be introduced as a team and won a Lombardi in the process. I know you think your attitude is enlightened and the rest of us are pretty provincial and naive. I disagree. In other places holdouts may mean nothing and get "handled", although I think that attitude is changing. Not the case here in the land of bend but don't break. When we break we lose. We apparently tried to bend for Deion after his Superbowl MVP and his response was to kick us in the ass.

Second, on Sports Extra tonight Michael Smith again referred to an offer made to Deion after SB XXXIX - so in March 2005 - that was also rejected out of hand as being insulting. I believe Borges also mentioned such an offer in passing in his article. Don't know what it was but I'd bet it was better that what a 4th or 5th year WR in his rookie deal is making. Maybe his tears in Denver were more personal - like he was crying about not having a shot at his second SBMVP before his in all liklihood long planned 2006 holdout. I can't help but think (and the thought crossed my mind that night too) that that MVP trophy was the worst thing that could have happened to Deion and this team. Brady takes them in stride. Most players don't.

Finally the concensus from Smith and Felger and DeOssie on the Sunday late sports shows was that someone will have to blink and this management team hasn't in 6 seasons. Richard got his little bump to come in after a few days, but Branch's situation is very different. No 6th year to shift old money from. Far more inflamatory rhetoric from the Branch camp too. Holdouts are often a means to jump start negotiations that are not forthcoming. The Pats have apparently been trying to get a new deal done with Deion for over a year now. That would seem to really add credence to the theory that Chayut (and his client) don't really want one here. All three seemed to think it's inching close to the point of no return (or the worst case week 10 return which is a scenario where everyone loses).

Another little snipet Smith dropped was that when Javon Walker was rumored to be coming here he talked to Deion and Deion advised him not to, saying he wouldn't see any money here. Smith said he didn't know how much of that advice was rooted in Deion giving Javon a peers heads up vs. Deion trying to disuade someone who might take reps from him and weaken his negotiating position from potentially signing here. Smith didn't come right out and say it but it sounded as if he got that directly from Walker in the aftermath of his trade to Denver. Who the hell does Deion Branch think he is. Unf'ingbelievable.

 

[Underoath]

What are you smoking? Some of Rickey's cheap stuff scrapped on his pipe?

The Patriots aren't being cheap or did you miss the part where they offered Branch a 3 year $18.75 million extension? The one where Branch and his agent told the Pats to F**K off and that Branch would be holding out of camp. You know, the same 3 year, 18.75 million extension that Branch and his agent didn't even send a counter-offer to. The same one that the Patriots told Branch that they expected him in camp and that the offer would be off the table if he didn't show up.

Branch and his agent chose this route. They are the ones who decided to act like Ty Law instead of Tom Brady or Tedy Bruschi. Heck, had Branch just asked for a 1 million bump with the agreement that they would work on a longer term deal to be completed by the end of camp, that would have been more professional.

Sorry, but this mess falls squarely on Branch. Not the Patriots.

i'm talking about letting Vinatieri, Givens, and McGinest go also...they haven't done **** this past offseason.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

i'm talking about letting Vinatieri, Givens, and McGinest go also...they haven't done **** this past offseason.

They were willing to pay Adam top dollar, just not willing to commit to keep doing it for 5 more years. Givens is a nice #2 who got overpaid to be a losers #1. That's not what successful teams do. Willie was way too long in the tooth to actually earn on the field what RAC was willing to pay him to come in a be the policeman in his locker room. Again, not what successful teams do. Successful teams get that way by not doing **** in the offseason. They take what the offseason offers within reason and make the best of it.

 

[Seymour93]

I don't usually delve into the dead to me threads, but since this is the current Branch thread of the evening I figured i'd add .02 or .03 cents to the debate here.

First, taildragger, there are oddly only 2 camp holdouts this season. That one is here and the other is the delusional Ashley Lelie really annoys me as a fan of the organization that chose - before Deion ever got here - to be introduced as a team and won a Lombardi in the process. I know you think your attitude is enlightened and the rest of us are pretty provincial and naive. I disagree. In other places holdouts may mean nothing and get "handled", although I think that attitude is changing. Not the case here in the land of bend but don't break. When we break we lose. We apparently tried to bend for Deion after his Superbowl MVP and his response was to kick us in the ass.

Second, on Sports Extra tonight Michael Smith again referred to an offer made to Deion after SB XXXIX - so in March 2005 - that was also rejected out of hand as being insulting. I believe Borges also mentioned such an offer in passing in his article. Don't know what it was but I'd bet it was better that what a 4th or 5th year WR in his rookie deal is making. Maybe his tears in Denver were more personal - like he was crying about not having a shot at his second SBMVP before his in all liklihood long planned 2006 holdout. I can't help but think (and the thought crossed my mind that night too) that that MVP trophy was the worst thing that could have happened to Deion and this team. Brady takes them in stride. Most players don't.

Finally the concensus from Smith and Felger and DeOssie on the Sunday late sports shows was that someone will have to blink and this management team hasn't in 6 seasons. Richard got his little bump to come in after a few days, but Branch's situation is very different. No 6th year to shift old money from. Far more inflamatory rhetoric from the Branch camp too. Holdouts are often a means to jump start negotiations that are not forthcoming. The Pats have apparently been trying to get a new deal done with Deion for over a year now. That would seem to really add credence to the theory that Chayut (and his client) don't really want one here. All three seemed to think it's inching close to the point of no return (or the worst case week 10 return which is a scenario where everyone loses).

Another little snipet Smith dropped was that when Javon Walker was rumored to be coming here he talked to Deion and Deion advised him not to, saying he wouldn't see any money here. Smith said he didn't know how much of that advice was rooted in Deion giving Javon a peers heads up vs. Deion trying to disuade someone who might take reps from him and weaken his negotiating position from potentially signing here. Smith didn't come right out and say it but it sounded as if he got that directly from Walker in the aftermath of his trade to Denver. Who the hell does Deion Branch think he is. Unf'ingbelievable.

I'm unable to watch Boston TV for obvious reasons so thanks for posting Michael Smith's tidbit about Walker. If true, then there really is no point in further negotiation with the Branch party from the Pats perspective. Not only is he not a team player (allegedly), but he actively harmed BB/Pioli's agenda (allegedly). He does this to the same franchise that has given him so much in return. What a mockery the modern professional athlete has become.

 

[Pats726]

These remind me of the Nomar Garciaparra spear campaign that happened, and it made me sick to hear all these bandwagon fans say Nomar was dead to them. Just use your heads and don't believe everything you read in the papers, people!

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That smear campaign came from the front office....What has the Patriot's FO said about Branch??? Get your facts right..The only WORDS are from the Branch camp..if anything his dumb agent is smearing Deion himself..you have made a comparison one that is way off.....What has the Patriot's front office said that has smeared him????? I say go bacl to red sox land...

 

[RayClay]

Have you read the offer that the Patriots made to Branch's agent? Damn fair offer, more than I ever thought that they would.

Look guys we have not even played a preseason game yet - let's not jump off bridges yet. Ok- a few of you can.



Even Moe Green understood - it's not personal,it's just business.

I say we make him an offer he can't refuse.

 

[Zuma]

Ahhhh, I still like Deion. Amazes me people take this **** so personally.

Same here...

 

[Pats726]

Question: Did you hate Seymour for doing the exact same thing last year, and do you still hate him now that he's signed?

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Seymour at least showed his face at the charity tournament and the agent kept quiet as to not inflame the situation..a BIT different.

 

[maverick4]

Seymour was smart in keeping his mouth shut, and he had a better agent, but both he and Branch wanted more money and held out. It's basically the same situation.

Okay, Branch said he'd honor his contract and now isn't, but isn't it more likely that he is just following his agent's advice? Many players just do what their agents tell them, and it's clear that his agent is an idiot, so I can imagine this type of situation happening.

Just because someone wants more money doesn't have to make them 'dead to you'. I believe in the Pats front office, but at the same time I was sorry to see Big Willie, Vinatieri, Andruzzi, Givens, and Law go. Even though they chased more money, I'll still stand up and clap my hands when they're in town.

You're crazy if you don't think almost every professional player is looking out for his family and more money first. I bet you would too; stop pretending like you're somehow more morally superior.
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[ClosingTime]

DAmn you'd think DEion personally kicked your dog or slept with your girl.
This is all part of the biz fellas get used to it.
Here's the thing for Deion and it has little to do with the franchise tag. First the 3 year deal offered is an insult in that it is only for three years. Players in this league want money sure but they also want security, especially if they get a career ending injury. After all DEion has done for the team I can see him being of the opinion that it was an insult to only commit to him for 3 years. Him and his agent don't care about the franchise tag, that's a smokescreen. What they are worried about is that if Branch plays out this year and gets injured again, even if it is only for two games, his leverge with any team is going to be virtually shot cause he'll be slotted as injury-prone, which of course he is but teams don't necessarily have him viewed as such at the current moment. The Pats FO has this concern and that is why they are not willing to commit to a longterm deal. And that is the impasse.
Tell me, were some of you this enraged when the Pats cut Milloy a week before the season started? How many have mocked the words of TOm Jackson and his imfamous, "They hate their coach"? Well guess what, many players were poissed at this move and did resent BB for it (hate is a strong word). You seem to think that since players still played hard for him they liked him. That doesn't equate at all. Most good coaches are not well liked. (i.e. Bobby Knight). But I digress.
The point is, it is all part of the process. Teams are allowed to cut players under contract. Players are allowed to hold out to put pressure on for a new contract. That's the way it is and will always be. If you don't fault BB-Pioli for cutting players under contract it is irrational and naive to demonize Branch.
It's a sad and beautiful world.