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The more you think about it and see photos, it was a dirty hit..

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Sorry Charlie. My post was in response to the sentiment that "it was the only play he could make since he was on the ground" that people are making. My point was that this is a bogus argument since being in a tough situation doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. Whether you are standing, sitting, jumping, crawling, running or diving, it doesn't make a play any more legal or illegal.

If you want to argue the rule by the letter:



Pollard is a defensive player, making him part of the covered group.
Brady is a quarterback in the act of throwing in the pocket, also making him part of the covered group.
Pollard hit Brady in the area of the knee or below.
Attacking the QB from lying on the ground qualifies as both a "path" and "any direction".

So that leaves "unrestricted" and "flagrantly" to deal with. The rule could very easily have read:



But it doesn't. So what in the other words gives Pollard's hit immunity from this rule?

Flagrantly = Conspicuously bad, offensive, or reprehensible

Absent any other information or context, having a player drive his helmet into another player's knee, causing it to bend in an unnatural direction and causing that player severe pain and jeopardizing his career would certainly count as flagrant.

This word is there to provide some measure of severity to the hit. So you can't use this part unless you can demonstrate the hit really wasn't that bad and Brady was just unlucky that his ligaments exploded. Please don't try.

Unrestricted = able to act at will; not hampered; not under compulsion or restraint

Was Pollard acting of his own free will? Certainly.

Was Pollard compelled to hit Brady in the knee? Certainly not by the Pats.

Was Pollard hampered? Well he was engaged with a blocker at one point, but was he hampered or restrained at the time of the hit? To use this point, you would have to see evidence that absent this restraint, the hit would have either not occurred or not be around the knee. Can anyone honestly say that once Pollard was on the ground, Morris did anything to turn a potential legal hit into an illegal shot to the knee? No way. Not possible. Pollard's hit went exactly where he intended for it to go.

Now that the letter of the rule is out of the way, the intent of the rule is to avoid all shots to the knee for quarterbacks in the pocket. There are obviously circumstances where a hit could not be avoided (restricted) or doesn't rise to the level of punishment (not flagrant), but Pollard's hit was both avoidable and horrific.

Intent doesn't matter. The options available to Pollard when he was on the ground don't matter. The laws of physics do matter (Morris neither threw Pollard at Brady nor did he redirect Pollard to Brady's knee). Brady is gone for the year and nothing can change that. The league could take a strong stance to minimize the chances of this happening again since apparently the rules post-Palmer just aren't getting it done.
Great post. The part about it being "unrestricted" is BS but, well done. Are you a lawyer by any chance? Let's face it, most that are arguing that VW's hit on Lossman was NOT intentional would be arguing the exact opposite if the same thing had been done to Brady. If Wilfolk did the same thing to an opposing QB that Pollard did to Brady, many here would be arguing that it not only wasn't dirty, it was downright legal. Objective analysis is hard to find on a team's message board, eh?
 
It definetly didnt get by my eyes....any one who is happy over someone who gets seriously injured in a sporting event that is viewed and loved by millions needs help....

I was only asking if what people think about what I said....
I understand...but there are many who cheered.. Heard that in Las Vegas when it happened the room went wild. What does that say? If you read any message boards, it's loaded with that and more..
 
I understand...but there are many who cheered.. Heard that in Las Vegas when it happened the room went wild. What does that say? If you read any message boards, it's loaded with that and more..

yeah it dosen't surprise me.....its just stupid....ESPN is loving this....they are tearing it apart...
 
does anyone have any slowmotion pics (frame by frame) of the hit on brady? i remember seeing some on here yesterday but can't find them.
 
Great post. The part about it being "unrestricted" is BS but, well done. Are you a lawyer by any chance? Let's face it, most that are arguing that VW's hit on Lossman was NOT intentional would be arguing the exact opposite if the same thing had been done to Brady. If Wilfolk did the same thing to an opposing QB that Pollard did to Brady, many here would be arguing that it not only wasn't dirty, it was downright legal. Objective analysis is hard to find on a team's message board, eh?

You have to assume that neither Wilfork or Pollard were intentionally trying to hurt the QB. That would be evil and we have enough info to know Vince isn't evil...and we have no info to indicate that Pollard is.

This is where the situations differ. Vince had no intention of attacking the QB falling down at that particular angle. He ended up in that position, essentially out of control, and reacted in such a way that ended up hurting the opposing QB in the pocket. He was found to be responsible for his actions and fined. I actually don't have a problem with that because it sends a statement of how serious the situation is. You have to be amazingly careful around the QB in the pocket.

Pollard found himself in a different situation. He was on the ground by the QB's legs in the pocket and faced a choice. The fastest and easiest way to get to the QB would be to launch his body at the only part of Brady that he could reach...his stride leg. He chose to do exactly that and Brady is gone for the year.

The league's inaction says that when a pass rusher is faced with the exact same situation against Goober, Palmer, McNabb, Rivers, etc, he should do exactly the same thing that Pollard did. It stopped the play (or should have since the pass came up short), took the opposing QB out of the game and gave the Chiefs a chance to win against a vastly superior team on the road. If you are a bad team in the same situation, why wouldn't you send a middle blitzer diving on the ground and launch himself at the opposing QBs knee? The league is implicitly encouraging this behavior.

For those that think the Pollard hit was legal and just the nature of football, how would you feel if the exact same situation happened every game against every team? Not every QB would be lost for the season, but a good number would and most would be lost for the game. If Pollard's actions were "just football", you should have no problem seeing it happen all the time.

That is why I can't understand the response from the league. They shouldn't be advertising situations where it is OK for a defender's helmet to contact a QB's knee while a QB is in the pocket. It is never OK for that to happen. When it does happen, the league should assess the risk of it happening again and take appropriate action.

The hit on Palmer? Players need to know that you have to be controlled when a QB is in the pocket and you need to pull up if you aren't.

The hit on Losman? If you are out of control, you still have the responsibility to know where the QB is and avoid his legs at all cost.

The hit on Brady? As long as you are on the ground near the QB and a blocker is near you, take your shot.

Makes perfect sense to me.
 
I keep trying to view the hit on Brady as non-dirty. But I've watched it a zillion times and still think he knew what he was doing (going for the leg).

Maybe in a year I'll rewatch it and think differently. I'm really trying not to be a homer, but it's just the way I see it.
 
Insightful post Metaphors. Your point about the league encouraging this (by default and inaction) is almost creepy in it's implications. "Parity" just reared it's ugly head in my mind.
 
I keep trying to view the hit on Brady as non-dirty. But I've watched it a zillion times and still think he knew what he was doing (going for the leg).

Maybe in a year I'll rewatch it and think differently. I'm really trying not to be a homer, but it's just the way I see it.

You're not being a homer, it's dirty no matter which camera angle you look at it. You want to make a play dude without getting up off the ground and lunging, how about lunching your head to the open space and grab TB's leg with your hand if you don't feel like getting up off the turf and hitting him above his knee huh????

This guy potentially has cost Brady millions, has seriously impacted what more than likely would have been a serious Superbowl run and I'm not one for records, but in the end when careers are finished, numbers always seem to come up and this idiot has stolen 1 year's worth of numbers on this great QB's resume, what this guy did is beyond inexcusable.............
 
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You have to assume that neither Wilfork or Pollard were intentionally trying to hurt the QB. That would be evil and we have enough info to know Vince isn't evil...and we have no info to indicate that Pollard is.

This is where the situations differ. Vince had no intention of attacking the QB falling down at that particular angle. He ended up in that position, essentially out of control, and reacted in such a way that ended up hurting the opposing QB in the pocket. He was found to be responsible for his actions and fined. I actually don't have a problem with that because it sends a statement of how serious the situation is. You have to be amazingly careful around the QB in the pocket.

Pollard found himself in a different situation. He was on the ground by the QB's legs in the pocket and faced a choice. The fastest and easiest way to get to the QB would be to launch his body at the only part of Brady that he could reach...his stride leg. He chose to do exactly that and Brady is gone for the year.

The league's inaction says that when a pass rusher is faced with the exact same situation against Goober, Palmer, McNabb, Rivers, etc, he should do exactly the same thing that Pollard did. It stopped the play (or should have since the pass came up short), took the opposing QB out of the game and gave the Chiefs a chance to win against a vastly superior team on the road. If you are a bad team in the same situation, why wouldn't you send a middle blitzer diving on the ground and launch himself at the opposing QBs knee? The league is implicitly encouraging this behavior.

For those that think the Pollard hit was legal and just the nature of football, how would you feel if the exact same situation happened every game against every team? Not every QB would be lost for the season, but a good number would and most would be lost for the game. If Pollard's actions were "just football", you should have no problem seeing it happen all the time.

That is why I can't understand the response from the league. They shouldn't be advertising situations where it is OK for a defender's helmet to contact a QB's knee while a QB is in the pocket. It is never OK for that to happen. When it does happen, the league should assess the risk of it happening again and take appropriate action.

The hit on Palmer? Players need to know that you have to be controlled when a QB is in the pocket and you need to pull up if you aren't.

The hit on Losman? If you are out of control, you still have the responsibility to know where the QB is and avoid his legs at all cost.

The hit on Brady? As long as you are on the ground near the QB and a blocker is near you, take your shot.

Makes perfect sense to me.
Great post. Not sure I agree with everything you say, but, still, a great post. Good job.
 
The only problem I have is that his helmet was squarely on Brady's knee well before his arms came into the equation. You are only going to hurt someone when you put helmet to knee.
 
You're not being a homer, it's dirty no matter which camera angle you look at it.

There's a reason why no fan of any other team thinks this hit was dirty, and only Pats fans do. And its not "because they hate the Pats".
 
There's a reason why no fan of any other team thinks this hit was dirty, and only Pats fans do. And its not "because they hate the Pats".



Uhh yea it is. Hate or envy or both.

To watch the play from start to finish focusing on Pollard, and come to the conclusion that it was clean is ignorant at best. Pollard intentional went to the ground, and then lunged at Brady. I don't care if he didn't mean to HURT Brady, it was at the very least a completely stupid and negligent act. In the real world, people are held accountable for their actions, if when their only fault is being negligent.
 
The man speared a QB's knee with his helmet. its just so simple its beyond ridiculous. Intent aside. Knee to helmet? Legal? Makes no sense. None whatsover. And we can all bet our house that rule will most certainly change in the offseason. Absolutely no question.

By the way, Im sure every word I said has been stated on multiple accounts in this thread. Didnt read it all. Im sure its repetetive. For that I aplogize. Just venting.
 
Uhh yea it is. Hate or envy or both.

To watch the play from start to finish focusing on Pollard, and come to the conclusion that it was clean is ignorant at best. Pollard intentional went to the ground, and then lunged at Brady. I don't care if he didn't mean to HURT Brady, it was at the very least a completely stupid and negligent act. In the real world, people are held accountable for their actions, if when their only fault is being negligent.

It was as bad of a job blocking as it was a dirty play. You cant blame pollard he's getting cut block and poorly I might add, from that point at ground level he's just acting on instinct. He just happens to arrive at the spot as Brady step up to deliver the ball. Why is'nt anyone screaming about the fact that Brady did'nt play in the pre-season, and maybe, just maybe his pocket presence was'nt quite up to speed yet. the guy had'nt played a FULLSPEED snap since the SB, but no one seems to think that matters. If I had a nickel for everytime I saw him step up in the pocket while being blitzed up the middle. He has such a great feel for the game it's almost like he's playing at a different speed, just not this past Sunday. Blaming Pollard is B*ll****.
 
It was as bad of a job blocking as it was a dirty play. You cant blame pollard he's getting cut block and poorly I might add, from that point at ground level he's just acting on instinct. He just happens to arrive at the spot as Brady step up to deliver the ball. Why is'nt anyone screaming about the fact that Brady did'nt play in the pre-season, and maybe, just maybe his pocket presence was'nt quite up to speed yet. the guy had'nt played a FULLSPEED snap since the SB, but no one seems to think that matters. If I had a nickel for everytime I saw him step up in the pocket while being blitzed up the middle. He has such a great feel for the game it's almost like he's playing at a different speed, just not this past Sunday. Blaming Pollard is B*ll****.



Ok now that you've proven you have NOT watched the replay (and forget the actual play), I ask that you go watch it again.... Pollard did NOT get cut block, HE CUT MORRIS. HE THREW HIMSELF AT MORRIS' LEGS!

As for the crap about Brady and his pocket presence, which is laughable. The guy needed a full out LUNGE to get to Brady's knee (the closest thing to him). That had nothing to do with preseason, or pocket presence. He had room and was stepping into his throw.
 
Ok now that you've proven you have NOT watched the replay (and forget the actual play), I ask that you go watch it again.... Pollard did NOT get cut block, HE CUT MORRIS. HE THREW HIMSELF AT MORRIS' LEGS!

As for the crap about Brady and his pocket presence, which is laughable. The guy needed a full out LUNGE to get to Brady's knee (the closest thing to him). That had nothing to do with preseason, or pocket presence. He had room and was stepping into his throw.

Morris was going down to get him, he just beat him to it.
 
Morris was going down to get him, he just beat him to it.



lol... are you being serious? I gave the link, go watch it.

Oh and then pause it at :40 and look at that lol
 
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