The more you think about it and see photos, it was a dirty hit..

[emoney_33]

Sorry, but you are the one who is arguing against reality and reason. As for the rule, its CLEAR that they are not enforcing it the same way.

1) Morris landed on top of Pollard because Pollard attempted to cut block Morris to begin with.

2) Pollard DID launch himself at Brady even though it was CLEAR that Brady was already in his throwing motion.

Vince Wilfork got fined when he was blocked into Losman by Brad Badger last year, yet they are claiming the same rule applies. That's fact. I watched the play enough times and nothing you can say will change that.

If we follow that the rule says that its only an UNIMPEDED BLOCKER that can't hit the QB below the knee, then Wilfork shouldn't have been fined.

That's another thing, who the **** cuts a blocker like that? Is that taught to anyone as a valid way to get by a blocker? WTF was that.

There's more validity to a crazy theory of this being calculated by Pollard (perfect sequence of events to make it look accidental) than there is to the stupid idea that the play was completely clean.

 

[DaBruinz]

Because in the officials eyes he is not a QB, he is a ball carrier. Same reason you can tackle a running back or receiver at the knees if they have the ball. If you wanna push for a change to the rule that is one thing but to equate one thing to the other is quite a stretch.

By the way, if the QB was out leading a play to throw a block (like on a reverse) and somebody came in and took his knees out that would be illegal as well!!!

How can the official's eyes register that he's a BALL CARRIER and not a QB when Brady was already in the motion of throwing the ball, when he got hit?

Reality sucks, doesn't it?

Sorry, but you are the one making the stretch there. Not anyone else.

 

[goterriers]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80aa5f0a

Go to 3:28. Dirty, dirty, dirty. Throwing himself on Brady's leg below the knee. Friggin jerk.

Kraft needs to do something. Make Goodell pay big for this.

 

[DaBruinz]

A lineman missing a block and tripping the player that beat him is illegal - it's in the rule book.

A DL that overruns the play and hits the QB in the head is illegal - it's in the rule book.

If a sideline pass is underthrown and a defender is between a player and the ball then the player cannot push the player out of the way. It's illegal because it's in the rule book.

Getting knocked to the ground, scrapping to get to the ball carrier (this means he was impeded) and then hitting the ball carrier below the knee is OK because it is NOT in the rule book.

Not sure what you were going for here but you just solidified my point...

Hitting the QB below the knees because the opposing teams OG blocks you into him isn't in the rule book either. Yet, Wilfork got a flag and fined for it.

Face guarding isn't in the rule book, yet Ellis Hobbs got flagged for it.

Also, please stop making it sound like Pollard didn't LUNGE at Brady. You make it sound like Pollard just hit Brady in the legs with his arm or something. That's NOT the case. Pollard lunged at Brady, leading with his helmet, and hit Brady i below the knee.

If Pollard had just pulled Brady's leg out or something we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, that isn't what Pollard did. And nothing you can say will change that reality.

 

[goterriers]

Look at Pollard's legs and toes. No effort to get up. Just an effort to launch himself horizontally on top of Brady's leg.

Look at Morris's left arm. First he is holding Pollard around the neck or face. 10 yard holding penalty, 15 yard facemask, fine, call it. But right before the lunge Morris lets go with his left arm and his right arm is out of view. Morris had nothing to do with this hit.

Goodell, you're in big trouble.

 

[bizell]

Hitting the QB below the knees because the opposing teams OG blocks you into him isn't in the rule book either. Yet, Wilfork got a flag and fined for it.

Face guarding isn't in the rule book, yet Ellis Hobbs got flagged for it.

Also, please stop making it sound like Pollard didn't LUNGE at Brady. You make it sound like Pollard just hit Brady in the legs with his arm or something. That's NOT the case. Pollard lunged at Brady, leading with his helmet, and hit Brady i below the knee.

If Pollard had just pulled Brady's leg out or something we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, that isn't what Pollard did. And nothing you can say will change that reality.

haha.. "leading with his helmet".

what should he have done, a flying elbow like vince wilfork? get real.

 

[bradmahn]

Pollard had a choice - he wasn't launched into Brady. The only way he could get to him was to lunge forward and hit him in the lower leg. It was a conscious decision, not an accident. And it was all in front of him so he could see exactly what he was doing.

I never argued that he was pushed into Brady. He very clearly was attempting to tackle the ball carrier after being blocked. Every defensive player should be trying to do that. It is not only legal according to the rules, it is absolutely and unequivocally NEEDED for the NFL to be competitive.

The rule is designed to protect the quarterback from unnecessary roughness when a player has an uninterrupted path to the quarterback, in other words, absolutely not what happened here.

If you want to argue whether he led with his helmet, go ahead, but you'd be wrong there, also.

 

[emoney_33]

I never argued that he was pushed into Brady. He very clearly was attempting to tackle the ball carrier after being blocked. Every defensive player should be trying to do that. It is not only legal according to the rules, it is absolutely and unequivocally NEEDED for the NFL to be competitive.

The rule is designed to protect the quarterback from unnecessary roughness when a player has an uninterrupted path to the quarterback, in other words, absolutely not what happened here.

If you want to argue whether he led with his helmet, go ahead, but you'd be wrong there, also.

Do you understand how few QBs we would have if every Safety blitz consisted of taking out the RB's knees then missile diving at the QB's knees? Your stubbornness is amazing.

Again, go watch the entire play over and over on youtube in real time. Make sure you watch the whole play, able to see the action from snap to finish. Not just the video of the end of the play.


You are arguing that what Pollard did was clean, yet if every safety blitz in the NFL was played the way Pollard played that, every team would need 3-5 backups per year.


Pollard INTENTIONALLY put himself on the ground. Morris did not block him into the ground, Pollard threw himself on the ground, taking out Morris, and then lunged himself into Brady... Are you seriously blind, ignorant or just refuse to watch the full replay in real time without blinders?

 

[Pats726]

I never argued that he was pushed into Brady. He very clearly was attempting to tackle the ball carrier after being blocked. Every defensive player should be trying to do that. It is not only legal according to the rules, it is absolutely and unequivocally NEEDED for the NFL to be competitive.

The rule is designed to protect the quarterback from unnecessary roughness when a player has an uninterrupted path to the quarterback, in other words, absolutely not what happened here.

If you want to argue whether he led with his helmet, go ahead, but you'd be wrong there, also.

Using a helmet in THAT fashion is also illegal...THAT is in the rules..yes..a LOT of protection the rules did with Brady...really protected him huh??? He wasn't vlocked into Brady..so??? A clean hit? A helmet to teh knee is OK...is that what you are saying??
ALL double talk...

 

[Buchanty]

Met, it's pretty difficult to launch one's helmet horizontally when one is already on the ground, especially in such a way that would make it egregious to the rules as they are written. He was continuing the play and doing what he could to make the play. He extended his arms and they actually came into contact with Brady before his helmet did. Contact with a helmet is absolutely fine in the NFL and happens all the time simply because it is a physical game and it is impossible to completely guard against just such hits. It's when those hits are intentional that they are illegal. It's hard to argue Pollard's was intentional.

I wish I was back home to review the tape of the first 20 minutes, but you raise a good point on whether the hit was intentional. I seem to remember Pollard taking Maroney out by launching himself below 39's knees, and then another one at or below the knee on Welker.

While I accept the NFL ruling (and we all should because it doesn't change who's under center), Pollard demonstrated that his intent is more than questionable. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern. If this is his modus operandum he will continue to act in this way, and he will become a marked man until someone takes him out.

But before I can suggest this is the case I need to check the tape because my memory may be faulty.

 

[emoney_33]

I wish I was back home to review the tape of the first 20 minutes, but you raise a good point on whether the hit was intentional. I seem to remember Pollard taking Maroney out by launching himself below 39's knees, and then another one at or below the knee on Welker.

While I accept the NFL ruling (and we all should because it doesn't change who's under center), Pollard demonstrated that his intent is more than questionable. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern. If this is his modus operandum he will continue to act in this way, and he will become a marked man until someone takes him out.

But before I can suggest this is the case I need to check the tape because my memory may be faulty.

It's funny, on the SAME play he took Morris out at the legs, so he could get to Brady by lunging at his knees... friggin AMAZING. What a clean player

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I wish I was back home to review the tape of the first 20 minutes, but you raise a good point on whether the hit was intentional. I seem to remember Pollard taking Maroney out by launching himself below 39's knees, and then another one at or below the knee on Welker.

While I accept the NFL ruling (and we all should because it doesn't change who's under center), Pollard demonstrated that his intent is more than questionable. Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence and three times is a pattern. If this is his modus operandum he will continue to act in this way, and he will become a marked man until someone takes him out.

But before I can suggest this is the case I need to check the tape because my memory may be faulty.

Ohh-this is interesting. I remember maroney getting nailed on his lower legs but I didn't realize that was Pollard. This game is definitely worth rewatching; personally speaking Brady's injury then Cassel's play sort of erased everything that happened before that from memory. I'll be curious to read your observations

The way this situation was handled is p*ssing me off big time

 

[Metaphors]

Not sure what you were going for here but you just solidified my point...

Sorry Charlie. My post was in response to the sentiment that "it was the only play he could make since he was on the ground" that people are making. My point was that this is a bogus argument since being in a tough situation doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. Whether you are standing, sitting, jumping, crawling, running or diving, it doesn't make a play any more legal or illegal.

If you want to argue the rule by the letter:

No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

Pollard is a defensive player, making him part of the covered group.
Brady is a quarterback in the act of throwing in the pocket, also making him part of the covered group.
Pollard hit Brady in the area of the knee or below.
Attacking the QB from lying on the ground qualifies as both a "path" and "any direction".

So that leaves "unrestricted" and "flagrantly" to deal with. The rule could very easily have read:

No defensive player may hit a quarterback in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction.

But it doesn't. So what in the other words gives Pollard's hit immunity from this rule?

Flagrantly = Conspicuously bad, offensive, or reprehensible

Absent any other information or context, having a player drive his helmet into another player's knee, causing it to bend in an unnatural direction and causing that player severe pain and jeopardizing his career would certainly count as flagrant.

This word is there to provide some measure of severity to the hit. So you can't use this part unless you can demonstrate the hit really wasn't that bad and Brady was just unlucky that his ligaments exploded. Please don't try.

Unrestricted = able to act at will; not hampered; not under compulsion or restraint

Was Pollard acting of his own free will? Certainly.

Was Pollard compelled to hit Brady in the knee? Certainly not by the Pats.

Was Pollard hampered? Well he was engaged with a blocker at one point, but was he hampered or restrained at the time of the hit? To use this point, you would have to see evidence that absent this restraint, the hit would have either not occurred or not be around the knee. Can anyone honestly say that once Pollard was on the ground, Morris did anything to turn a potential legal hit into an illegal shot to the knee? No way. Not possible. Pollard's hit went exactly where he intended for it to go.

Now that the letter of the rule is out of the way, the intent of the rule is to avoid all shots to the knee for quarterbacks in the pocket. There are obviously circumstances where a hit could not be avoided (restricted) or doesn't rise to the level of punishment (not flagrant), but Pollard's hit was both avoidable and horrific.

Intent doesn't matter. The options available to Pollard when he was on the ground don't matter. The laws of physics do matter (Morris neither threw Pollard at Brady nor did he redirect Pollard to Brady's knee). Brady is gone for the year and nothing can change that. The league could take a strong stance to minimize the chances of this happening again since apparently the rules post-Palmer just aren't getting it done.

 

[goterriers]

This is no good. I want revenge on that prick Pollard and on that Jets/Colts loving Goodell. Kraft better find a way to get serious revenge on both of them, bigtime.

 

[checkedout]

Sorry, but you are the one who is arguing against reality and reason. As for the rule, its CLEAR that they are not enforcing it the same way.

1) Morris landed on top of Pollard because Pollard attempted to cut block Morris to begin with.

2) Pollard DID launch himself at Brady even though it was CLEAR that Brady was already in his throwing motion.

Vince Wilfork got fined when he was blocked into Losman by Brad Badger last year, yet they are claiming the same rule applies. That's fact. I watched the play enough times and nothing you can say will change that.

If we follow that the rule says that its only an UNIMPEDED BLOCKER that can't hit the QB below the knee, then Wilfork shouldn't have been fined.

DaBruinz, thanks for the series of posts trying to explain to some of these pro pollard folks that the hit was dirty. I tried as well but they are too stubborn. They told me to go watch the clip saying how Sammy 'takes him to the ground'! That's when I got out becuase I realised they must be blind if they didn't see pollard chop Sammy!

 

[ctsports]

The play seemed clear to me. Pollard came in low on Morris, causing Sammy to land on top of him and basically roll over him. At that point Morris is behind Pollard and there is no one between Pollard and Brady. He then launched himself toward Tom's legs. How much more unrestricted can you get? I must have missed the part where the rule says that unrestricted doesn't apply if you are starting on the ground.

As for the, "What else could he do" argument, the answer is simple, "get up". Pollard was on the ground because he chose to be. It's not as if he was pancaked by Morris. This ruling by the NFL just reinforces the already dangerous practice of coming in low on the blockers and the quarterback.

 

[DaBruinz]

haha.. "leading with his helmet".

what should he have done, a flying elbow like vince wilfork? get real.

Listen, TROLL. He shouldn't have been lunging at Brady's legs to begin with. Since you are an absolute village idiot and clearly don't know what you are talking about, Wilfrok was BLOCKED into Losman by Brad Badger. Maybe if you had a brain and had actually WATCHED the plays in question, you might actually be able to bring something that shear stupidity to the thread.

OH, btw, a FOREARM is a lot less hard than a helmet.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already....but in regards to Bernard Pollard....if you type into Google....you get Results 1 - 10 of about 265,000 for Bernard Pollard. (0.18 seconds) .... does anyone think this guys life, career, world might be in jeopardy from what occurred?

I personally think it was just a bad situation and he made a unfortunate play....but with al the die hard Patriot fans all over the place....one would think Pollard might be in jeopardy.....

 

[Pats726]

Not sure if this has been mentioned already....but in regards to Bernard Pollard....if you type into Google....you get Results 1 - 10 of about 265,000 for Bernard Pollard. (0.18 seconds) .... does anyone think this guys life, career, world might be in jeopardy from what occurred?

I personally think it was just a bad situation and he made a unfortunate play....but with al the die hard Patriot fans all over the place....one would think Pollard might be in jeopardy.....

.That is a laugh.....he's being celebrated as a HERO by many..or did that get by your eyes..
http://simononsports.blogspot.com/2008/09/purdue-was-right-bernard-pollard-is.html

 

[Pat_the_Patriot]

He wasn't "leading with his helmet," he was attempting to tackle Brady. You're not supposed to hit a QB below the knees, but he was attempting to wrap up and make a tackle, not "hit." It was unintentional and while Brady was still holding the ball. Defensive players still have to be allowed to tackle the ball-carrier.

It was not dirty and the only reason most of us here have a problem with it and why some call it "dirty" is because of the BS fines on Wilfork last year, on plays that weren't dirty. Just because Wilfork was wrongfully punished doesn't mean others should be as well.

:agree: Dude... exactly. This is football. While I am sickened over our loss... that doesn't chang the fact that the kid was just doing his best and trying to sack our QB.

Two wrongs don't make a right.... the witch hunt on big Vince was stupid last year... and trying to re-do against the kid from KC (sorry, I don't know his name) is garbage.