The Linebacker Situation Is Likely A Bit Better Than Last Year

[Gronk]

Your analysis of McClellin is way too harsh.

Playing LB as the Mike/Will in CHI last year, McClellin was on a 100+ tackle pace last year if he hadn't gotten hurt. That is not Chad Jackson.

The knocks on him are that he doesn't tackle downhill and sucks in coverage. That is understood.

As of right now he is a highly competent backup and/or so-so starter which is what his contract value represents.

Re: the tackle count...someone's gonna make them. In the next sentence you mention he doesn't tackle downhill, i.e. he doesn't shed/evade blocking, struggles to fill gaps at the line and makes most of his tackles 5+ yards downfield, well between that and he kinda sucks in coverage, those seem like pretty big problems for a LB to me.

It was his first year playing for a competent HC/DC with Fox/Fangio, and first year playing a position that seems to be his best fit. I watch most Bears games and he occasionally looked competent, which was a big step up from looking like a high school kid that snuck onto the field getting rolled by linemen, but he still did struggle as noted above, he looked lost frequently even though he was the one calling the plays thru the headset which indicates poor instincts, and he's probably the least physical 6'3" 250lb guy in the league.

I'm blindly going into "in BB I trust" mode regarding this signing in that I hope he's right and I hope it works, but as I keep seeing largely positive comments about his play here or 'Hightower, Collins, and McClellin is a great unit' or 'he's probably better than Mayo the last couple years' comments (when really the unit could still be called great if it were Hightower, Collins, and my mom), I do think that needs to be counterbalanced by noting that they guy has done next to nothing in 4 years in the NFL and he's got a lot to prove before he's even considered a quality rotational/backup LB at this level.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: the tackle count...someone's gonna make them. In the next sentence you mention he doesn't tackle downhill, i.e. he doesn't shed/evade blocking, struggles to fill gaps at the line and makes most of his tackles 5+ yards downfield, well between that and he kinda sucks in coverage, those seem like pretty big problems for a LB to me.

I don't think thats the right way to look at it. If that was the case then anyone could be a 100 tackle a year player. Players don't get to the 100 tackle mark without having the ability to make tackles and be able to navigate to the ballcarrier. There are dozens of LBs who suck in coverage. He isn't the only one.

I do agree that a high number of his tackles came after 4 yards. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but there are a ton of reasons why that was the case. Crappy d-line, scheme, responsibility and as you say lack of recognition and instincts which are acquired with experience and confidence or simply born with.

It was his first year playing for a competent HC/DC with Fox/Fangio, and first year playing a position that seems to be his best fit. I watch most Bears games and he occasionally looked competent, which was a big step up from looking like a high school kid that snuck onto the field getting rolled by linemen, but he still did struggle as noted above, he looked lost frequently even though he was the one calling the plays thru the headset which indicates poor instincts, and he's probably the least physical 6'3" 250lb guy in the league.

Like you said, it was his 1st year in a new position in a new defense for everyone. To say he has poor instincts can easily be attributed to being thrust into a new system playing a position for the first time.

Going back to my earlier point, I don't think you get to 100 tackles with poor instincts and not somewhat knowing what you are doing out on the field.

I'm blindly going into "in BB I trust" mode regarding this signing in that I hope he's right and I hope it works, but as I keep seeing largely positive comments about his play here or 'Hightower, Collins, and McClellin is a great unit' or 'he's probably better than Mayo the last couple years' comments (when really the unit could still be called great if it were Hightower, Collins, and my mom), I do think that needs to be counterbalanced by noting that they guy has done next to nothing in 4 years in the NFL and he's got a lot to prove before he's even considered a quality rotational/backup LB at this level.

Whomever is saying he is the next Mayo is a major reach. My goodness...

They are paying him to be a high-quality backup at a few different positions and occasional spot-starter. In CHI he did that but the results were very uneven with a number of potential reasons why that do not rest solely on him.

 

[DW Toys]

I think we need to pump the brakes on McClellin a little bit. The single best thing he's done in the NFL is get signed by Bill Belichick.

Absolutely I'm hopeful and even semi-confident that BB usually doesn't miss on signings like this one often but McClellin was a massive bust in Chicago and he may have played several positions because he was versatile, or he may have played several positions because he wasn't very good at any of them. If he hadn't been a first round pick he'd have been cut in like 2013. On the field, this guy SUCKED. He was like the Chad Jackson of LBs. He's a BB reclamation project, not a reason the Pats LB corps is great.

In my opinion Cousin, McClellin is the heir to the Ninkovich, Vrabel line. Nink is on his last contract year and 32. This "tweener" DE/OLB group is kind of a BB thing that has worked well. McClellin might have the most natural talent but remember, Vrabel and Nink were both cast offs.The #50 position lives on. Ironically McClellan wore #50 in Chicago.

Vrabel was 33 when he left the Pats in a trade. Now in his last contract year Nink is 32. More irony. They were all at or near 26 when they joined the Pats.

Do you see the pattern? If McClellin can be molded into the pattern, he will have a long and successful career here.
How many of us scoffed when Bill forced Nink into the Vrabel slot and it took some time?
Just sayin......
DW Toys

 

[mgteich]

Whomever is saying he is the next Mayo is a major reach. My goodness...

I'll sy it again.

McClellan is a replacement for vintage 2015 Mayo, and a replacement for Mayo's 2015 production. Mayo was our #4 LB in 2015, and didn't pay well. Doing better isn't a very high bar.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'll sy it again.

McClellan is a replacement for vintage 2015 Mayo, and a replacement for Mayo's 2015 production. Mayo was our #4 LB in 2015, and didn't pay well. Doing better isn't a very high bar.

There was nothing vintage about 2015 Mayo. It was downright tough to watch a once great player become a 3rd teamer.

McClellen represents an upgrade over that not an upgrade over 2012 Mayo....and it isn't even close.

 

[mgteich]

They need 4 LB, they use 2 99% of the time ...

So they have the best duo in the league + a former 1st round pick + rookie or freeny ( they can get jaylon smith with the 61st pick, so they keep freeny this year)

It seems likely that we will draft an OT and a DL in the second round. Some even have CB, WR and RB as 2nd round priorities.

 

[Gronk]

I don't think thats the right way to look at it. If that was the case then anyone could be a 100 tackle a year player. Players don't get to the 100 tackle mark without having the ability to make tackles and be able to navigate to the ballcarrier. There are dozens of LBs who suck in coverage. He isn't the only one.

I do agree that a high number of his tackles came after 4 yards. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy but there are a ton of reasons why that was the case. Crappy d-line, scheme, responsibility and as you say lack of recognition and instincts which are acquired with experience and confidence or simply born with.

Like you said, it was his 1st year in a new position in a new defense for everyone. To say he has poor instincts can easily be attributed to being thrust into a new system playing a position for the first time.

Going back to my earlier point, I don't think you get to 100 tackles with poor instincts and not somewhat knowing what you are doing out on the field.

Whomever is saying he is the next Mayo is a major reach. My goodness...

They are paying him to be a high-quality backup at a few different positions and occasional spot-starter. In CHI he did that but the results were very uneven with a number of potential reasons why that do not rest solely on him.

I think we fundamentally agree on his role and what will be expected of him in NE, and what he's been so far. I'm hopeful that they can fix him, coach him up, find a role for him or whatever you want to call it - but the only reason I believe that is because BB signed him. I see now that even his Chicago jersey number is being used to support his validity as a player. Come on. I hope Shea McClellin is that guy too, but believing that right now would require me to pretend I'd never watched him play football. I think it's likely that a lot of people here have not watched him play football, and that enables them to be more optimistic about him. As I said before - BB signing him is the only thing that makes any Patriots fan think he's anything but hot garbage. If anyone could dig up an old FA target list with Shea McClellin's name on it, I'll vote for Ben Carson.

The Bears' defenses he played on were horrible all 4 years - better last year because coaching, but still bad. So you're absolutely right that there's a lot of other reasons why he struggled, I said as much when they signed him because the Bears coaching problems over his career never really allowed him to settle into a role because everyone disagreed on what kind of player he was. But even on bad teams good players will still "jump off the screen" so to speak, and he just never really did that. Again, do I think BB can turn him into a competent and consistent backup/cleanup tackler? Yeah, probably. But even though his contract is absolutely reasonable and low-risk, it's enough money to say that they are expecting him to up his level of play in their system and be on the field, and I'm not sure what they're getting is going to be much more competent than a mid-round draft pick or JAG vet minimum pickup would have gotten them. I hope I'm wrong.

Re: tackles...most plays end with a tackle. Sometimes you're running a guy out of bounds after 20 yards or you happen to be the guy the RB runs into first 8 yards downfield. Those seemed more often than not to be the kind of plays Shea made. That's part of his job, of course, so it's good that he makes the tackles or can run the guy out at the sideline. I just think you also have to be careful in conflating getting to a certain number of tackles with being an impact player, or even good.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think we fundamentally agree on his role and what will be expected of him in NE, and what he's been so far. I'm hopeful that they can fix him, coach him up, find a role for him or whatever you want to call it - but the only reason I believe that is because BB signed him. I see now that even his Chicago jersey number is being used to support his validity as a player. Come on. I hope Shea McClellin is that guy too, but believing that right now would require me to pretend I'd never watched him play football. I think it's likely that a lot of people here have not watched him play football, and that enables them to be more optimistic about him. As I said before - BB signing him is the only thing that makes any Patriots fan think he's anything but hot garbage. If anyone could dig up an old FA target list with Shea McClellin's name on it, I'll vote for Ben Carson.

I hear you. I'll be the first to admit I didn't pay any attention to him at all nor sit down and watch Bears games and focus on him the last few years. Over the past month or so I've watched highlights, a few quarters here and there and read up on the guy so I feel pretty good with my analysis. With that said when projecting how players from other places fit here I've been right a lot.........and wrong a lot. .

The Bears' defenses he played on were horrible all 4 years - better last year because coaching, but still bad. So you're absolutely right that there's a lot of other reasons why he struggled, I said as much when they signed him because the Bears coaching problems over his career never really allowed him to settle into a role because everyone disagreed on what kind of player he was. But even on bad teams good players will still "jump off the screen" so to speak, and he just never really did that. Again, do I think BB can turn him into a competent and consistent backup/cleanup tackler? Yeah, probably. But even though his contract is absolutely reasonable and low-risk, it's enough money to say that they are expecting him to up his level of play in their system and be on the field, and I'm not sure what they're getting is going to be much more competent than a mid-round draft pick or JAG vet minimum pickup would have gotten them. I hope I'm wrong.

Agree completely with the bold. In what I've seen with McClellin he does not do that. I wish he was more physical at the LoS...but he isn't and I highly doubt he'll become that here. You don't become a battering-ram overnight. You either have that physicality as part of your game or you don't.

I think this is clearly the case that they like the kids's athleticism and has done enough to convince them that what he did in 2015 and before gives them the confidence that he has a much higher ceiling than what he has showed.

Re: tackles...most plays end with a tackle. Sometimes you're running a guy out of bounds after 20 yards or you happen to be the guy the RB runs into first 8 yards downfield. Those seemed more often than not to be the kind of plays Shea made. That's part of his job, of course, so it's good that he makes the tackles or can run the guy out at the sideline. I just think you also have to be careful in conflating getting to a certain number of tackles with being an impact player, or even good.

This is true. Hell in 2009 Gary Guyton had close to 90 tackles and he was run over often but what he did do was get to the ballcarrier. He had speed to get there but wasn't stout by any stretch. I'm thinking McClellin is a stronger Gary Guyton but not nearly as stout as say Brandon Spikes

 

[Joey007]

It's because of Humber right?

 

[mgteich]

Humber is competing for a bottom of the roster ST position. Usually the #5-7 LB's (if we have that many) are first and foremost special teamers.

Our position linebackers are Collins, Hightower, McClellan and Freeney. Obviously, someone could beat out Freeney, and almost anyone can win the 5th LB/ST spot.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

It seems likely that we will draft an OT and a DL in the second round. Some even have CB, WR and RB as 2nd round priorities.

I like that... OT is a huge need. They save money and start the transition from Vollmer + Branch and Knighton are rentals so DL is a need... Please no RB... they can get value in later rounds... WR is ok, and CB we have depth need, if we dont re-sign Ryan we could bring CB in round 3 for next year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I like that... OT is a huge need. They save money and start the transition from Vollmer + Branch and Knighton are rentals so DL is a need... Please no RB... they can get value in later rounds... WR is ok, and CB we have depth need, if we dont re-sign Ryan we could bring CB in round 3 for next year.

If they had a decent threat at RB they would have beaten DEN.

They don't need a rock star but a player that demands some level of respect by the defense both in the running and passing game.

 

[supafly]

If they had a decent threat at RB they would have beaten DEN.

They don't need a rock star but a player that demands some level of respect by the defense both in the running and passing game.

Not only would they have hosted the AFCCG, but there's a good chance they'd still have beaten Denver on the road even if they didn't.

I whined like a ***** about our lack of running game from early Dec on, and it was definitely my biggest concern heading into the postseason. I would wager that Belichick is going to draft a RB, even if it isn't until the middle rounds (assuming a trade into the 4th).

 

[Gronk]

I whined like a ***** about our lack of running game from early Dec on, and it was definitely my biggest concern heading into the postseason. I would wager that Belichick is going to draft a RB, even if it isn't until the middle rounds (assuming a trade into the 4th).

Based on how FA has gone, they HAVE to think there's guys in the draft that will be available to them and able to step right in. Right? Maybe that means moving up higher in the 2nd round, or I dunno maybe they would be satisfied with someone they feel will be there at 60/61 which is in the middle of where they got Vereen (56) and Ridley (73), so it's possible.

The presumptive improvement of the OL and the stacking of talent at the other skill positions doesn't make what they currently have at RB acceptable. It's not good enough right now.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not only would they have hosted the AFCCG, but there's a good chance they'd still have beaten Denver on the road even if they didn't.

I whined like a ***** about our lack of running game from early Dec on, and it was definitely my biggest concern heading into the postseason. I would wager that Belichick is going to draft a RB, even if it isn't until the middle rounds (assuming a trade into the 4th).

Yep. It's not a knock on Blount but they could stand to upgrade the position

 

[mgteich]

Not only would they have hosted the AFCCG, but there's a good chance they'd still have beaten Denver on the road even if they didn't.

I whined like a ***** about our lack of running game from early Dec on, and it was definitely my biggest concern heading into the postseason. I would wager that Belichick is going to draft a RB, even if it isn't until the middle rounds (assuming a trade into the 4th).

Sure, a flyer in the 4th or 5th is quite possible. That seems unlikely to solve the 2016 need for a lead RB.
1st down back - Gaffney, Brown
3rd down back - Lewis, White, Bolden
FB - Develin, Iosefa, Harbor

A free agent RB seems likely even if he signed in June. But perhaps we are sold on Gaffney and Brown, NOT.

 

[JMC00]

It seems likely that we will draft an OT and a DL in the second round

Setting yourself up for disappointment if you think OT and DL are the nailed on picks in the 2nd

 

[JMC00]

Yep. It's not a knock on Blount but they could stand to upgrade the position

Outside of Elliot there is no RB in this draft that would be an upgrade to him this year. Down the road sure but this year not a chance.

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as down the road maybe. But this year, the team will pass on it. But maybe they would have like to get a RB in 2017.

 

[supafly]

Sure, a flyer in the 4th or 5th is quite possible. That seems unlikely to solve the 2016 need for a lead RB.
1st down back - Gaffney, Brown
3rd down back - Lewis, White, Bolden
FB - Develin, Iosefa, Harbor

A free agent RB seems likely even if he signed in June. But perhaps we are sold on Gaffney and Brown, NOT.

I would still like to take a shot on a prove it deal with Foster, but who knows how reasonable that is to consider? Should that occur, a mid round RB (not necessarily a "flyer") could in theory, be just fine for some first year carries, with the capacity to step up in case of injury.

We may see more of Lewis than people are assuming, so I certainly wouldn't pigeon hole him into being "just" a third down back. He certainly played on many first and second downs last year, so I'm not understanding why posters are leaning that way--unless it's a hypothetical, perfect world scenario and then I'd agree.

I'd much rather see him as a 3rd down back, but we still have White, and also went out and brought Brown in to battle it out for that role. Bottom line: I think a rookie and a vet is the way to go, but I'm only expecting the rookie draft pick, myself.