The Defense: Why I'm Relatively Optimistic

[mgteich]

I still think they can improve but is that going to be enough? We shall see.

If the defense this year improves as much as the defense did last year, we'll be fine.

 

[Nikolai]

Things can improve. I'm taking the wait-and-see approach.

Not that things will turn out the same, but I recall the 2007 Gints starting off with a few horrible performances by their D. Coughlin had them coached up by the Game That Shall Not Be Mentioned.

Blown assignments speak to what I would assume are communications issues. As with anything, we will see if this is a competency issue or character issue. If it's the latter, maybe we're looking at a 2009 type of season; if it's the former, the sky is still the limit. I trust our coaching staff.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Pats actually lead in TOP with 31:07

They certainly didn’t against Houston and barely won the TOP against KC and carolina.

 

[supafly]

If the defense this year improves as much as the defense did last year, we'll be fine.

In what way?

Through 4 games/2016: 15.25 PPG

Week 5--13 points allowed

Week 6--17 points allowed

Week 7--16 points allowed

That takes us through almost the first half of the season.

Throughout the entire season, the defense only allowed 25+ on two separate occasions (BUF 25, SEA 31--after the bye week).

 

[TennisBallHead]

How many good players have they drafted on defense lately? Flowers. I remember when the final roster came out, I even thought to myself, "this is supposed to be a super team that will go 19-0?"

 

[Tony2046]

How many good players have they drafted on defense lately? Flowers. I remember when the final roster came out, I even thought to myself, "this is supposed to be a super team that will go 19-0?"

That's funny. I remember thinking to myself at the time "geez, Tennisball head has never posted anything about this team not going 19-0"

 

[luuked]

In what way?

Through 4 games/2016: 15.25 PPG

Week 5--13 points allowed

Week 6--17 points allowed

Week 7--16 points allowed

That takes us through almost the first half of the season.

Throughout the entire season, the defense only allowed 25+ on two separate occasions (BUF 25, SEA 31--after the bye week).

And, yet, the board was in a similar meltdown as this year because of the pointless stat that is yards allowed. It was until the Ravens game for many of the same faces that whine now to shut up (and be distracted by Cyrus Jones and ST issues).

There are always issues that supposedly doom this team. If it is not the secondary it is the pass rush. If it is not the tight ends it is the lack of a deep threat. If it is not the punt returner it is the field goal kicker. Hell they wanted to replace Brady with JG.

 

[ensoul]

I don't remember the last time the pats gave up 30+ points 4 games in a row. Yes once and a while the pats d has a meltdown but the next game they'd correct it. Doesn't seem to be the case this year.

Generally the pats d is top 10 when they win super bowls. Right now the defense is the worst in the leauge and I don't think they have the personal to correct this.

 

[stephens44]

The athleticism of Jones and Collins was gone most of last year and the team seemed to do fine. Is Nink's experience really the difference between an excellent unit and a historically dreadful one?

I forgot to mention Sheard as well, but yes the athleticism and experience is missing and specifically in the pass rush. 2 years ago those 4 accounted for 32.5 sacks. Last year the team only had 34 sacks all year as a team and Sheard and Ninkovich had 9 of those. We're getting killed in the passing game due to a lack of pressure on the QB, lack of leadership and the secondary cant seem to get on the same page. If we had at least one solid pass ruther like Jones, that might be enough to change the current dynamic. This D won't gel without a playmaker in the front 7 IMHO.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I don't remember the last time the pats gave up 30+ points 4 games in a row. Yes once and a while the pats d has a meltdown but the next game they'd correct it. Doesn't seem to be the case this year.

Generally the pats d is top 10 when they win super bowls. Right now the defense is the worst in the leauge and I don't think they have the personal to correct this.

They where 8th in total defense last year. Amazing to go from 8th to dead last this year.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I posted this in another thread, but the offense has to shorten the game - longer TD drives and eat up more clock. Keep the defense off the field until they get better. I don’t mind winning games 20-10 or 23-17 like the old days.

 

[PatsFan2]

Winston isn't a very mobile QB, luckily. Less so than Alex Smith, probably, and nowhere near Newton and Watson.

Yeah, but a even a average QB could play Catch with that Defense...Tampa has alot of weapons. Patriots Defense = 3rd and First.

 

[primetime]

Wrote this in the other optimistic about defense thread, but...

I mean, the defense has very little discontinuity in terms of personnel from last year's team. Hightower's been injured (but that was true last year), McClellin's on IR, and Ryan, Ninkovich, Long, and Sheard all left. But Wise has been a bright spot and Gilmore is at least in theory an upgrade over Ryan. So it's a question of why normally exceptional players like Butler and McCourty and stalwarts like Chung are playing like crap.

My guess is scheme. Last year the Patriots faced very few mobile quarterbacks. Tyrod Taylor and Russell Wilson were about it. And, hey, guess who the only two QBs to beat the 2016 Patriots were?

This year, through four games, the Patriots have faced three quarterbacks that can beat you with their legs in Smith, Watson, and Newton. Against all three they rushed contain and avoided blitzes. This gave these quarterbacks all day to throw, and they picked the Patriots apart because all three are talented passers in addition to being able to pull the ball down and gain yards with their feet.

Yesterday they allowed the absolutely putrid duo of Matt Kalil and Darryl Williams to look like Pro Bowlers because they didn't rush the quarterback. The Patriots finally let loose and brought some heat towards the end of the Panthers game and, well, it worked (they likely win if not for the Gilmore penalty, which was legitimate if ticky-tack). There were other problems, like miscommunication that left receivers wide open, but that wasn't all of it.

Also note how they had their best defensive day against Drew Brees, who's by far the most talented QB of that bunch. Most of the damage Brees did came when the game was no longer in doubt and the Patriots were happy to trade yards for time.

Patricia and Belichick are deathly afraid of mobile quarterbacks for whatever reason. They play them too conservatively, and that's been the case for a while. Maybe it's a complex after being embarrassed by the wildcat years ago. The good news is they only have three games against mobile quarterbacks left on their schedule and the offense is so dominant that they will still be favored.

The bad news is one of those games is this week. It makes me leery, because Winston is a quarterback who can pick defenses apart but is prone to boneheaded decisions under pressure. If they decline to bring that pressure, though, they're going to get beat. That said, Winston's not nearly as mobile as any of Smith, Watson, or Newton, (he's more like a Roethlisberger) so maybe they'll play him differently. And Taylor is a different case, since he's just not as talented a passer as any of the other mobile QBs they've faced thus far, but I expect the Bills to challenge them as well.

 

[Oswlek]

I forgot to mention Sheard as well, but yes the athleticism and experience is missing and specifically in the pass rush. 2 years ago those 4 accounted for 32.5 sacks. Last year the team only had 34 sacks all year as a team and Sheard and Ninkovich had 9 of those. We're getting killed in the passing game due to a lack of pressure on the QB, lack of leadership and the secondary cant seem to get on the same page. If we had at least one solid pass ruther like Jones, that might be enough to change the current dynamic. This D won't gel without a playmaker in the front 7 IMHO.

I don't think you understood the question I asked. The athleticism of Collins and Jones was already missing last year, but the defense did fine. Would it be helpful? If course, but you can't say it's the cause of these issues unless you can explain why they didn't manifest last year as well.

Nink and Sheard weren't exactly game changers last year, so their absences may have an effect, it certainly doesn't explain the totality of it. It is clear that something is going on beyond both athleticism and the guys who left. You aren't hitting on the true cause.

 

[stephens44]

I don't think you understood the question I asked. The athleticism of Collins and Jones was already missing last year, but the defense did fine. Would it be helpful? If course, but you can't say it's the cause of these issues unless you can explain why they didn't manifest last year as well.

Nink and Sheard weren't exactly game changers last year, so their absences may have an effect, it certainly doesn't explain the totality of it. It is clear that something is going on beyond both athleticism and the guys who left. You aren't hitting on the true cause.

Well, actually I am hitting the true cause... Perhaps you forget that last year's D was helped by a much softer schedule? (weak QBs, weal Offense's) Also, as Primetime stated:
"Hightower's been injured (but that was true last year), McClellin's on IR, and Ryan, Ninkovich, Long, and Sheard all left."
That's experience and talent drain, which is what I've been saying. It's just my opinion based on observation, nothing more to it so feel free to pick at it.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

There is absolutely nothing to be optimistic about

Per usual, BBS defense stinks. This year more than ever

 

[sean10mm]

I'm not surprised the defense looks weak, but I am surprised at HOW it looks weak. The defensive end play isn't killing this team like everybody worried about. Instead we have the STUPIDEST secondary in football with almost all the same dudes and 1 (supposed to be) upgrade?

And Gilmore making mental errors isn't the whole problem. Coverages are being completely, hilariously busted on the opposite side of the field from him too, and you can't blame him for everybody getting clowned on rudimentary screen plays either. The whole back end of the defense just looks galactically moronic and I don't get it. 1 dude doesn't make the entire secondary just crap its pants left and right.

 

[Pats1989]

If they look bad in Tampa, I'd be shocked if someone isn't benched or fired. Quite frankly, is winning the division even a guarantee anymore? Serious question.

 

[mgteich]

In what way?

Through 4 games/2016: 15.25 PPG

Week 5--13 points allowed

Week 6--17 points allowed

Week 7--16 points allowed

That takes us through almost the first half of the season.

Throughout the entire season, the defense only allowed 25+ on two separate occasions (BUF 25, SEA 31--after the bye week).

my bad

 

[mgteich]

If they look bad in Tampa, I'd be shocked if someone isn't benched or fired. Quite frankly, is winning the division even a guarantee anymore? Serious question.

If they look bad in Tampa, I'd be shocked if someone isn't benched or fired. Quite frankly, is winning the division even a guarantee anymore? Serious question.

So, if someone has a bad game against Tampa, Belichick will have a hissy fit and fire someone?

The defense need LOTS of work. If we all recognize that, we will be looking for improvement, not an immediate turnaround.

Personally, I wouldn't have us favored against TB. However, I do think that we have a good chance if Hightower moves back to LB, and Patricia goes to MTM coverages. Obviously, it would help if Rowe were available.