The Boston Sports Media Sucks

[lancerman]

Nick Foles and Eli Manning (times two!) won Super Bowls. Against us. Joe Flacco as well. There’s a lot that goes into winning the SB.

You mentioned 3 QB’s who in 2011, 2012, and 2017 basically had the best 4 game stretches of their lives and never replicated it again. Statistically Tom Brady and Peyton Manning don’t have individual years where they put up those numbers in the playoffs. Also two of the top 10 QB’s in the draft and two were not great and more streaky, but they were legit franchise QB’s for a good period of time. Foles meanwhile inherited the number 1 seed that was full of talent and played phenomenal with a stacked team once the playoffs hit.

So in 3 of those 4 situations (Eli also has 2007) if you analyzed their playoff run the main answer is “their QB played well above their typical level and it yielded a Super Bowl win”. So it very much was a QB thing. Also I don’t think anyone here would be very satisfied being stuck with a mid tier QB who was up and down and hoping the team is good enough for the possible chance they have an up period during the playoffs

 

[Wozzy]

You mentioned 3 QB’s who in 2011, 2012, and 2017 basically had the best 4 game stretches of their lives and never replicated it again. Statistically Tom Brady and Peyton Manning don’t have individual years where they put up those numbers in the playoffs. Also two of the top 10 QB’s in the draft and two were not great and more streaky, but they were legit franchise QB’s for a good period of time. Foles meanwhile inherited the number 1 seed that was full of talent and played phenomenal with a stacked team once the playoffs hit.

So in 3 of those 4 situations (Eli also has 2007) if you analyzed their playoff run the main answer is “their QB played well above their typical level and it yielded a Super Bowl win”. So it very much was a QB thing. Also I don’t think anyone here would be very satisfied being stuck with a mid tier QB who was up and down and hoping the team is good enough for the possible chance they have an up period during the playoffs

He mentioned three QB's who also played on the best teams in the league.

In 2016 Drew Brees led the NFL in passing, the Saints had the 2nd best offense and 32nd ranked defense in the NFL... they went 7-9.

You need "good" QB play, but don't necessarily need the best QB.

It's a TEAM thing.

 

[archstanton543]

And it stinks!

I stopped listening years ago. One of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[lancerman]

He mentioned three QB's who also played on the best teams in the league.

In 2016 Drew Brees led the NFL in passing, the Saints had the 2nd best offense and 32nd ranked defense in the NFL... they went 7-9.

You need "good" QB play, but don't necessarily need the best QB.

It's a TEAM thing.

Again this is a bad example. The Giants in 2011 were 9-7. They upset a 15-1 Packers team and a 13-3 Pats team to win their title. They were not remotely considered the best team. Eli was the standout in the playoffs. The Ravens in 2012 were 10-6 and had to go on the road and upset the Broncos and Patriots who were both favored. They were not the best team. Their defense was also older. They won because their QB had the best year of his life.

Nick Foles did inherit arguably the best team that year. He also put up monster playoff numbers and won a shootout in the SB when his defense didn’t do anything to stop Brady. If he was any less than perfect, they don’t have a Super Bowl.

Now to Brees. If you run analytics, you would realize that the period of time you were referring to, the Saints had one of all time worst defenses in NFL history. That’s not hyperbole. Some of the worst teams in the league dropped 40 on them. They were godawful on defense. Brees being their gave them a floor of 7-9 because he could go score for score. That’s the value of a QB. You made a mid range record with an all time bad defense because the QB can still compensate. Once the defense got marginally better they shot right back up to playoff contention. So yeah the QB mattered a lot. That was lucky to be a 2-14 without Brees.

In 3 of those cases the QB is the primary reason those teams won titles and they wouldn’t have won without excellent play. In the other the QB was the reason an all time bad defense didn’t complete bottom out the team.

You either need an elite QB, elite QB play or a once or twice a decade dominant defense. The elite QB will give you chances most of the time, the QB who can occasionally play elite will give you chances 1-4 times, and the historically dominant defense will give you 1 chance when all the cards line up.

The model is to find an elite QB. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Mahomes account for 13 of the 19 titles since Brady’s first (I’ll take off Manning’s 2015). Eli/Flacco/Foles who were playing elite account for 3 more. So you are at 16 of 19 or 84%.

The remaining are Brad Johnson winning with an elite Tampa 2 defense, Manning winning with an elite 2015 Broncos defenses.

Then you have the 2007 Giants which was a super weird outlier of strong but not out of this world defensive play and clutch moments by Eli.

Even if you don’t want to give Wilson credit for 2013 (I think that’s a mistake, he was always a strong QB who got overshadowed) it changes those numbers by a fraction.

QB is far and away the most predicative and important position. It’s not close. That should always be the priority. As far as I’m concerned the minute Bill let Brady walk without having a solid option, he basically punted on this season. And by the way he has been talking lately, it kinda feels like he’s not unaware because he clearly is taking it easier on the team

 

[TomPatriot]

I listen to Bedard and read Reiss. That's pretty much it.

New York sports media is worse. Of course, they have a lot more to criticize.

 

[amfootball]

They are on pace to have their worst season since 2001.

The team they lost to walked into the game 2-6. The two wins they had was to the 1-9 Jaguars who might not win another game this year. The Texans are bottom feeders and it takes an exceptional amount of spin to prop them up to make the loss not so bad. Yeah it’s an awful loss. Several weeks ago this game was considered the closest thing to an auto win on our schedule outside the Jets games. Speaking of the Jets, they are one of the worst teams in NFL history right now and we nearly lost to them and needed a last second score to win. Again, it was an awful loss.

As far as normal this is the result of at least 6 years of mediocre drafts and the team has been trending down since 2018 (yes we won a SB, but we had probably one of our weakest regular seasons going into the playoffs and many pegged us for dead until we got extremely hot and played well above what we had shown). Then 2019 was more of the same only this time we didn’t turn it on, then this year the bottom fell out. And honestly a big part of that is the QB position which the prospects of finding one this offseason don’t look too great. So yeah this is probably a more than one year thing. Also normal is relative. Last Sunday was normal for this season. You are getting too semantic with wording.

The headline isn’t a problem. Some of us accepted the reality of this a long time ago. It wasn’t that hard to see.

I agree with all of this. We are a bottom third team until we find a legit QB and Bill starts to hit on some of his drafts. Nothing gets solved magically next year or the year after.

 

[XLIX]

Being a sports writer is a profession where you can be wrong day in and day out and no one holds you accountable. I don't mean wrong with historical fact, I mean wrong with saying a move was a good move or a bad move or this guy sucks or that owner will never succeed or this coach was a horrible hire. Furthermore, saying ridiculously stupid things can actually benefit a sportswriter's career because negative attention is far, far better than no attention.

Who was it that Borges said we should have drafted over Richard Seymour? Was it David Boston? I mean those types of picks would have run the franchise into the ground but sportswriters still get to act like they know everything and always would do the right thing.

 

[Koma]

Being a sports writer is a profession where you can be wrong day in and day out and no one holds you accountable. I don't mean wrong with historical fact, I mean wrong with saying a move was a good move or a bad move or this guy sucks or that owner will never succeed or this coach was a horrible hire. Furthermore, saying ridiculously stupid things can actually benefit a sportswriter's career because negative attention is far, far better than no attention.

Who was it that Borges said we should have drafted over Richard Seymour? Was it David Boston? I mean those types of picks would have run the franchise into the ground but sportswriters still get to act like they know everything and always would do the right thing.

David Terrell, the wide receiver from Michigan, was Borges’ pick. He also said Matt Light wasn’t going to help anytime soon.

 

[Wozzy]

Again this is a bad example. The Giants in 2011 were 9-7. They upset a 15-1 Packers team and a 13-3 Pats team to win their title. They were not remotely considered the best team. Eli was the standout in the playoffs. The Ravens in 2012 were 10-6 and had to go on the road and upset the Broncos and Patriots who were both favored. They were not the best team. Their defense was also older. They won because their QB had the best year of his life.

Nick Foles did inherit arguably the best team that year. He also put up monster playoff numbers and won a shootout in the SB when his defense didn’t do anything to stop Brady. If he was any less than perfect, they don’t have a Super Bowl.

Now to Brees. If you run analytics, you would realize that the period of time you were referring to, the Saints had one of all time worst defenses in NFL history. That’s not hyperbole. Some of the worst teams in the league dropped 40 on them. They were godawful on defense. Brees being their gave them a floor of 7-9 because he could go score for score. That’s the value of a QB. You made a mid range record with an all time bad defense because the QB can still compensate. Once the defense got marginally better they shot right back up to playoff contention. So yeah the QB mattered a lot. That was lucky to be a 2-14 without Brees.

In 3 of those cases the QB is the primary reason those teams won titles and they wouldn’t have won without excellent play. In the other the QB was the reason an all time bad defense didn’t complete bottom out the team.

You either need an elite QB, elite QB play or a once or twice a decade dominant defense. The elite QB will give you chances most of the time, the QB who can occasionally play elite will give you chances 1-4 times, and the historically dominant defense will give you 1 chance when all the cards line up.

The model is to find an elite QB. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Ben Roethlisberger, Mahomes account for 13 of the 19 titles since Brady’s first (I’ll take off Manning’s 2015). Eli/Flacco/Foles who were playing elite account for 3 more. So you are at 16 of 19 or 84%.

The remaining are Brad Johnson winning with an elite Tampa 2 defense, Manning winning with an elite 2015 Broncos defenses.

Then you have the 2007 Giants which was a super weird outlier of strong but not out of this world defensive play and clutch moments by Eli.

Even if you don’t want to give Wilson credit for 2013 (I think that’s a mistake, he was always a strong QB who got overshadowed) it changes those numbers by a fraction.

QB is far and away the most predicative and important position. It’s not close. That should always be the priority. As far as I’m concerned the minute Bill let Brady walk without having a solid option, he basically punted on this season. And by the way he has been talking lately, it kinda feels like he’s not unaware because he clearly is taking it easier on the team

Those Giants were 9-7 because their best defenders were dealing with injury, by the end of the year they were entirely healthy and one of the best defenses in the league... same with the Ravens. It doesn't matter who has the best record... it matters who is the best (healthiest) team in the playoffs.

The 2017 Pats lost to the Eagles because Alan Branch, Donta Hightower, Shea McClellin, Jonathan Jones and Patrick Chung were hurt. It also didn't help that Julian Edelman, Marcus Cannon, Martellus Bennett, Malcolm Mitchell were also hurt and didn't play. Otherwise the Pats would have won 4 rings in five years instead of 3, and we'd have to hear about how BB "sucks" because he needed a rebuilding year in 2020.

Nobody said you didn't need good QB play to win, but if Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Eli Manning, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Nick Foles, Jeff Hostetler, Jim Plunkett, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, include Peyton Manning with a broken neck can win a ring... then it truly is a TEAM sport.

The year Foles beat Brady in the Super Bowl, the two other QB's in the Conference Championship games were Case Keenum and Blake Bortles... TEAM includes QB... but it's TEAM first.

 

[captain stone]

The best money I spend is my monthly bill for Sirius radio.

Moving the Chains = Best 4 hours of football in Any medium.

 

[XLIX]

David Terrell, the wide receiver from Michigan, was Borges’ pick. He also said Matt Light wasn’t going to help anytime soon.

Lord, that's even worse.... I got the right position and first name though....

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

This almost certainly doesn't deserve its own thread but I couldn't help myself after seeing this headline.

What a spoiled, gutless, cowardly reaction.

Wait, you're just discovering this now?

OK lots of black players don't want to come to Boston because it's racist, but more players in general avoid us because everyone knows the media SUCKS.

You think John Harrington looks back and says "Gosh, the media were kind and fair to us"? I mean, you know, when he's alone at home.

You can make a case local media gave the Celtics greater coverage from 1977-1979 during the worst period in their history than they ever did all the years they were dominating.

The Bruins have been mostly spared but probably because they're all white.

Us? The Patriots? More than half of you believe we've been as bad or worse than over a dozen other franchises that went through stretches of futility lasting multiple decades. The longest losing stretch in our history remains seven (7) seasons.

And the late Bruce McNair makes me appreciate, miss and love the late Billy Sullivan.

F*ck Boston media.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Wait, you're just discovering this now?

OK lots of black players don't want to come to Boston because it's racist, but more players in general avoid us because everyone knows the media SUCKS.

You think John Harrington looks back and says "Gosh, the media were kind and fair to us"? I mean, you know, when he's alone at home.

You can make a case local media gave the Celtics greater coverage from 1977-1979 during the worst period in their history than they ever did all the years they were dominating.

The Bruins have been mostly spared but probably because they're all white.

Us? The Patriots? More than half of you believe we've been as bad or worse than over a dozen other franchises that went through stretches of futility lasting multiple decades. The longest losing stretch in our history remains seven (7) seasons.

And the late Bruce McNair makes me appreciate, miss and love the late Billy Sullivan.

F*ck Boston media.

Agreed. The media is so toxic. Purposely so negative just to get fans riled up for ratings and for talk radio. Also as you note, not the most friendly place for minority ballplayers whether it be baseball or basketball or whatever. Even seeing the reaction to Cam Newton here is super interesting. The tolerance level is different. I think it's odd a guy can pass for 365 yards at 65% completion with no picks, and people complain about 2 batted balls.

.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Agreed. The media is so toxic. Purposely so negative just to get fans riled up for ratings and for talk radio. Also as you note, not the most friendly place for minority ballplayers whether it be baseball or basketball or whatever. Even seeing the reaction to Cam Newton here is super interesting. The tolerance level is different. I think it's odd a guy can pass for 365 yards at 65% completion with no picks, and people complain about 2 batted balls.

.

Well, it's been proven that when the Pats run, they win.

We passed well with Tony Eason and Drew Bledsoe, but lost - especially the big games.

Josh - and most other people - is enamored with the passing game.

We can all learn something from the late great Vince Lombardi.

 

[FCB02062]

The MEDIA sucks....period

 

[Jackson 2]

Agreed. The media is so toxic. Purposely so negative just to get fans riled up for ratings and for talk radio. Also as you note, not the most friendly place for minority ballplayers whether it be baseball or basketball or whatever. Even seeing the reaction to Cam Newton here is super interesting. The tolerance level is different. I think it's odd a guy can pass for 365 yards at 65% completion with no picks, and people complain about 2 batted balls.

.

You just got Bingo.

 

[Jackson 2]

Agreed. The media is so toxic. Purposely so negative just to get fans riled up for ratings and for talk radio. Also as you note, not the most friendly place for minority ballplayers whether it be baseball or basketball or whatever. Even seeing the reaction to Cam Newton here is super interesting. The tolerance level is different. I think it's odd a guy can pass for 365 yards at 65% completion with no picks, and people complain about 2 batted balls.

.

And the tolerance level is different for some posters here, as well. It's as predictable as it could possibly be.

 

[sb1]

David Terrell, the wide receiver from Michigan, was Borges’ pick. He also said Matt Light wasn’t going to help anytime soon.

“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

 

[sb1]

I think I remember another gem from the past - don’t think it was Borges but still hilarious

Right after the 31-0 debacle in Buffalo - something about future generations of Patriots fans telling their grandkids they saw the Patriots win the franchise’s only Super Bowl in 2001 only to send Milloy to a division rival and starting the Curse of Milloy.

LOL

 

[Jackson 2]

Another great one was from Shank Shaughnessy in the late 90s. The Pats lost to the Steelers 7-6 and Vrabel stripped Bledsoe of the ball to seal a playoff win. Shank wrote the next day that it would go down in Boston sports history as comparable to Buckner's error in the 86 World Series