TEs in this draft???

[sircole]

The member, lowfbig, on another Pats' fan forum has made a chart with past Pats' TEs and prospects from the upcoming draft.

TEs



Horizontal colors:
Blue = Patriots players they have, had, worked with in some capacity(practice squad etc), tried to get their hands on.
Pink = Some of the more well known names in this 2019 draft

Vertical colors:
Red = red flag testing score for that drill - below average, below where you ideally would like
Orange = average testing score for that drill
Yellow = above average testing score for that drill
Green = Elite testing range score for that drill

 

[miloofcroton]

This isn't as bad as the guy who doesn't think TJ Hockenson is a player but if you actually watched Rapp you see the talent & skill set.
For all the talk about range I can't remember him being beat deep. I want him closer to the los but the range talk makes little sense considering whats hes put on tape & likely destination at the next level.

I never said either of these guys are bad. I questioned the first round value of Hockenson, who isn't an extraordinary athlete. No, you don't need to be an extraordinary athlete to be a good receiver, but it's often the difference between 'pretty good' and 'great', and 'pretty good' is not necessarily a good value in the 1st. I did change my tune when I noticed how polished his routes were, but I still have a bit of reservation, just out of the desire to get BPA and not knowing if that would be him.

>For all the talk about range I can't remember him being beat deep.

In all my watching, he mostly played in the slot or in the box. Not many chances to get beat deep.

>I want him closer to the los but the range talk makes little sense considering whats hes put on tape & likely destination at the next level

I don't see run defense as his strong suit. Yes, again, very solid, but I don't see the ability to break blocks or the aggressiveness of a guy like Abram. Rapp is better than Abram in coverage, but Abram is a true run stopping safety if that's what you want.


BTW, back to the topic of TEs... I love what I see from Dawson Knox. Knox and Moreau are the guys I most like that are outside of the first couple rounds.

 

[manxman2601]

I never said either of these guys are bad. I questioned the first round value of Hockenson, who isn't an extraordinary athlete. No, you don't need to be an extraordinary athlete to be a good receiver, but it's often the difference between 'pretty good' and 'great', and 'pretty good' is not necessarily a good value in the 1st. I did change my tune when I noticed how polished his routes were, but I still have a bit of reservation, just out of the desire to get BPA and not knowing if that would be him.

>For all the talk about range I can't remember him being beat deep.

In all my watching, he mostly played in the slot or in the box. Not many chances to get beat deep.

>I want him closer to the los but the range talk makes little sense considering whats hes put on tape & likely destination at the next level

I don't see run defense as his strong suit. Yes, again, very solid, but I don't see the ability to break blocks or the aggressiveness of a guy like Abram. Rapp is better than Abram in coverage, but Abram is a true run stopping safety if that's what you want.

The only part of Hockenson’s combine that wasn’t top notch was his forty. Everything else was very good. It was a better combine than, say, Zach Ertz for example. Or Rob Gronkowski although Gronkowski was 2/100 faster in the forty.

 

[miloofcroton]

The only part of Hockenson’s combine that wasn’t top notch was his forty. Everything else was very good. It was a better combine than, say, Zach Ertz for example.

When I say athlete, I don't mean it in the way that I think you mean it.

I mean: what is a standout trait that he has to beat a defense? Is he super tall or long? No. Is he super fast? No. Is he super strong? No. It's all about having *something* and then exploiting it over and over again. Being a technician and smart player is great, but it helps to have some other kind of advantage.

I think Zach Ertz kind of grew into what he is in the NFL, but I now think of him as sort of a Mike Evans that can play TE because he makes all the contested catches. You can isolate him on a CB. That is where Hockenson projects too, but you have to realize that isn't really on his tape. That's not how Iowa uses their TEs. And yes, I think Hockenson could reach that level too, but it's still a projection. We're talking about a lot of probabilities, and I'm only saying that I want to weigh them among other players.

I might take Fant over Hockenson. We're talking about essentially the same size/strength, but Fant is faster and much more of a vertical catcher. On numbers alone, there's a ton in common with George Kittle and Noah Fant, and Kittle is proving to be an all-world talent.

I'm not sold that Hockenson is an elite blocker. Very good, sure, but he can't do things that guys like Gronk or even Dwayne Allen can do because he doesn't have a super strong base. That limits the ceiling.

Insane that Iowa has had Kittle, Fant, and Hockenson on the same team.

 

[SBLIII]

Lets get Warring in the 3rd

 

[manxman2601]

If they’re confident Gronk comes back for another season, I’d be happy with Drew Sample. Outstanding blocker and could take the Dwayne Allen role from day one with a view towards competing for Gronk’s role in the future.

 

[captain stone]

How about pass rusher in the first and then Irv Smith/Jace Sternberger in the 2nd and Drew Sample on early Day 3?

If we want Irv Smith, we'll have to use our first-rounder to ensure that he's ours, because I don't think he lasts undrafted past the 40s, at the latest...and I wouldn't be opposed to taking him at 32 either, if all of DEs Ferrell, Ferguson & Burns have already been chosen.

 

[manxman2601]

If we want Irv Smith, we'll have to use our first-rounder to ensure that he's ours, because I don't think he lasts undrafted past the 40s, at the latest...and I wouldn't be opposed to taking him at 32 either, if all of DEs Ferrell, Ferguson & Burns have already been chosen.

I wouldn’t touch him in the first.

 

[captain stone]

I wouldn’t touch him in the first.

Smith? Why not?

 

[manxman2601]

Smith? Why not?

I think he’s undersized and under-athletic for a 1st round TE.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Smith? Why not?

I have serious doubts about smith. He’s not a blocker, and he is not really a great route runner or good at creating separation.

 

[JerseyShore99]

I wouldn’t touch him in the first.

Definitely not a first round prospect, but maybe second? and we have pick 32 so we'll see

 

[SBLIII]

I think he’s undersized and under-athletic for a 1st round TE.

His agility numbers are concerning if you expect a Pro Bowl TE.

 

[manxman2601]

His agility numbers are concerning if you expect a Pro Bowl TE.

And his explosion numbers. He’s not bad as a prospect in terms of film but I just don’t think he has the athleticism to be a move TE or the size (particularly height) to be an in-line TE. He’s more of an H-Back which we don’t use.

I’d be ok with him in the 2nd but I think there will be better options available at 32.

 

[manxman2601]

Definitely not a first round prospect, but maybe second? and we have pick 32 so we'll see

There will be others at 32 I think I would prefer.

 

[everlong]

I said it in another thread but Smith is Daniel Graham. Which isn't a bad thing but not for a first rounder. You would be getting a really good blocker who can get you 30-40 catches for 500-ish yards and 5 or 6 TDs. By all accounts also, like Graham, a great guy in the locker room. I actually expect him to be around at 56 and with Hockenson and Fant off the board the Pats taking him there.

 

[BobDigital]

Besides TJ Hockenson i'm just not excited about any TE in this draft class to this point. I'll look at a few more before I'm done but I found both Fant and Smith underwhelming for various reasons. Maybe i'm wrong. I'm more likely to be wrong on Fant than Smith though IMO cause at least Fant is the better athlete.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Besides TJ Hockenson i'm just not excited about any TE in this draft class to this point. I'll look at a few more before I'm done but I found both Fant and Smith underwhelming for various reasons. Maybe i'm wrong. I'm more likely to be wrong on Fant than Smith though IMO cause at least Fant is the better athlete.

Have you watched Warring? Pretty excited about him as a high upside player. Late rounds, I like Wesco. He's like Dwayne Allen with more wiggle and better hands. Solid #3 TE IMO.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The best deep seam route runner at tight end in this draft is Fant. However, I’m not a fan of his release or his intermediate route running.

It is sternburger, the second best deep seam route runner in this draft that excites me. He also has a horizontal and intermediate game that makes him perfect for our offense. Add in that he has did this last season in the sec.
last year he averaged 17 yards a catch against Alabama with a touchdown. This is a guy that has the exact skill set we need in our offense.

 

[manxman2601]

Have you watched Warring? Pretty excited about him as a high upside player. Late rounds, I like Wesco. He's like Dwayne Allen with more wiggle and better hands. Solid #3 TE IMO.

Drew Sample is my Allen replacement. Haven’t seen Wesco. I like Sample as a solid player who’s not going to let you down. May never be a top TE but in time could give you decent production that you could depend upon.

And I’m with you on Warring’s upside. Just a little concerned about his floor.