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Tebow, Blount, Edelman

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You didn't demonstrate anything to me except that you are good at making excuses.

I'm not making excuses at all. I am being objective.

You obviously just see what you want to see.
 
I'm not making excuses at all. I am being objective.

You obviously just see what you want to see.

You are saying the #1 passing defense was not actually the #1 pass defense based on your subjective opinion... facts and stats be damned. That is pretty much an excuse.
 
Both. He was horrible and Brady pummeled the Broncos defense at will. No shame in the latter but the former is inexcusable considering how bad the Pats D was.

The offense was also getting excellent field position in that game due to the fact that Tebow looked like a deer in the headlights and didn't know how to adjust or move the ball. People that are in denial about this should go back and look at the second half of the regular season game, then realize that Belichick, a coach typically known for his adjustments in the playoffs on defense against an opponent that he has seen already in the regular season, didn't really make any adjustments in the playoff game. He knew what Tebow did well, and he knew what Tebow didn't do well, and simply took advantage of it. That's how a defense that was piss poor against the pass made Tebow look like a JV high school level quarterback.
 
Both. He was horrible and Brady pummeled the Broncos defense at will. No shame in the latter but the former is inexcusable considering how bad the Pats D was.

Because of the way the Pats scored at will, I would say that is more of a team loss. But yes, Tebow did not play well.
 
The offense was also getting excellent field position in that game due to the fact that Tebow looked like a deer in the headlights and didn't know how to adjust or move the ball. People that are in denial about this should go back and look at the second half of the regular season game, then realize that Belichick, a coach typically known for his adjustments in the playoffs on defense against an opponent that he has seen already in the regular season, didn't really make any adjustments in the playoff game. He knew what Tebow did well, and he knew what Tebow didn't do well, and simply took advantage of it. That's how a defense that was piss poor against the pass made Tebow look like a JV high school level quarterback.

Factor in predictable play calling to this equation, please.
 
Factor in predictable play calling to this equation, please.

You mean the most popular excuse for fans to use after a loss? The spread option only looks predictable, but it isn't. Please cite examples to show me why the play calling was predictable.
 
You are saying the #1 passing defense was not actually the #1 pass defense based on your subjective opinion... facts and stats be damned. That is pretty much an excuse.

I'm not arguing they weren't the #1 passing defense on paper.

I'm saying in the 2011 Steelers case, that "accomplishment" was not nearly as impressive as you would like to think it is. They were a paper tiger. And it's not an opinion. It's a fact. You can't dispute what is fact.
 
You mean the most popular excuse for fans to use after a loss? The spread option only looks predictable, but it isn't. Please cite examples to show me why the play calling was predictable.

I'm not citing anything, professor. Look it up yourself, then tell me how it wasn't predictable.
 
Because of the way the Pats scored at will, I would say that is more of a team loss. But yes, Tebow did not play well.

That is correct. But this conversation is just about TT.
 
That is correct. But this conversation is just about TT.

Is it? Because I'm pretty sure we were talking about the Patriots D, the Steelers D, Orlovsky, Brady, and a whole bunch of other players.
 
I'm not citing anything, professor. Look it up yourself, then tell me how it wasn't predictable.

Do you want a crash course on the dynamics of Urban Meyer's spread option or would you just like to admit that you made a baseless claim, got caught with your pants down because you could not back it up, and move on?

If the play calling was so predictable, as you say, it should be relatively easy to point to draw plays out of the shotgun, as an example, and tell me why they were so predictable.
 
Is it? Because I'm pretty sure we were talking about the Patriots D, the Steelers D, Orlovsky, Brady, and a whole bunch of other players.

Only because people are making excuses for TT's lousy performance in the 2011 AFC Division playoff game against a historically bad Patriots pass defense, and instead hyping up TT's game the week before against a crippled and overrated Steeler team like it was a Super Bowl championship performance by a HOF QB. Probably hoping we forget the former. This is a typical Tebow fan argument. "But...but...he beat the Steelers!1!1!1!1!"

We are trying to put it in the perspective where it belongs.
 
Aww, this thread is beginning to deteriorate into the personal again. And you guys were doing so good.
 
Aww, this thread is beginning to deteriorate into the personal again. And you guys were doing so good.

I haven't gone personal at all.

How are things in Keystone? Hot day in downtown Jax right now.
 
Fact: The Pats D sucked in 2011 and Tebow got completely dominated against said defense. Just because you don't want to hear that fact doesn't make it any less true.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc
 
He took over when they were already 1-4.

"Backed into the playoffs" is a something that happens all the time but was not made into a catch phrase until Tebow came along.

But it was true. The Broncos were 8-5 thanks to a strong defensive performance needing only one more win to clinch a playoff spot in the last 3 games on a schedule that included the Buffalo Bills... who they got rolled by, and the Kansas City Chiefs who had just fired their coach and had Kyle Orton of all people leading them. They didn't do it and got in only because the rest of the AFC West had some sort of an allergic reaction to the division title.

Tebow managed a whopping 3 points against the Chiefs in a must win game to beat Orton, but lost 7 to 3. That 3 points came on a muffed punt giving the Broncos the ball well within field goal range when Tebow ended that drive with yet another of his patented three and outs.

He took over when they were 1-4, but he also finished 1-4 when MOST of the league figured him out. Pittsburgh just did a horrid job covering Thomas seemingly thinking they didn't need to bother covering him. But the passing offense went down, overall offense went down. Scoring went down. Completion percentage went down. Third down conversion rates went down (believe it or not) as did trips to the red zone. Three and outs went way up to make the Broncos the league leader that year. About the only thing positive that was tangible on offense was the rushing yards being #1, but that was just good enough to have the offense around 25th overall.

So how could they take such a large step back on offense and start winning games? Easy, the defense did most of the heavy lifting and they got a schedule against more mediocre offenses. They were exposed when they met a real offense like that of the Patriots (TWICE) and once it was shown the defense can't hang with Tebow punting the ball back to Brady after every third play, Tebow himself became a rediculous non-factor.

Nice job moving the ball and completing comebacks against soft prevent defenses, as not every guy can do that, but it has somehow made believers in a lot of people that actually think it means Tebow is a lot better than he actually is. Fools gold!! Most NFL fans not viewing the world through Tebow colored lenses are sophisticated enough to recognize it, and this is why no team gave a serious thought to bringing him in to try to start for their team. Talking about him taking a team from 1-4 to 8-8 with a playoff win is a serious oversimplification of what actually happened and puts far too much credit on Tebow, who spent 90% of his playing time helping dig the hole the Broncos often found themselves in for most of the game with his ineptitude at QB.

True, the defense did no favors by not stopping Brady, but punting the ball back to brady after about 2 minutes and only 3 plays = not a good formula for beating the Patriots.

Maybe the Patriots can salvage something out of him, but I truly think that answer will have less to do with Tebow being a starting QB in this league.
 
Only because people are making excuses for TT's lousy performance in the 2011 AFC Division playoff game against a historically bad Patriots pass defense, and instead hyping up TT's game the week before against a crippled and overrated Steeler team like it was a Super Bowl championship performance by a HOF QB. Probably hoping we forget the former. This is a typical Tebow fan argument. "But...but...he beat the Steelers!1!1!1!1!"

We are trying to put it in the perspective where it belongs.

Roethlisberger was playing on one leg, Mendenhall was out. Pouncey was out. Ryan Clark didn't play due to sickle cell (and that came into play especially in the final play of the game.) They had a couple others out too.

Tebow fans never want to talk about the Patriots game or his performance in the last 4 games of the regular season. It took a RB running out of bounds against Chicago and then fumbling the ball in OT to even beat a Caleb Hanie led Chicago Bears team.

I will give Tebow credit for setting one record with the Patriots though as a starting QB... How about a 29 yard sack?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXFyaDpUIrk

People have always made excuses for Tebow's bad play. Either the offensive line couldn't block, receivers couldn't catch, or the coaches called plays that were too predictable. I think the coaches did an awesome job under the circumstances. Only so much they can do with a QB who can only hit the broad side of a barn once in a while if they let him stand inside it.
 
Do you want a crash course on the dynamics of Urban Meyer's spread option or would you just like to admit that you made a baseless claim, got caught with your pants down because you could not back it up, and move on?

If the play calling was so predictable, as you say, it should be relatively easy to point to draw plays out of the shotgun, as an example, and tell me why they were so predictable.


Anytime you want to discuss Urban's Spread Option, I'll be happy to as I absolutely love it.

That said, it's not really applicable to this discussion as the Broncos didn't run Urban's Spread Option. Rather, they ran Mike McCoy's offense that had some option plays that he cobbled together. And yes, it was very predictable.

If you want, you can go over to the game day thread at the Broncos forum and you'll find guys who were Tebow critics even then, complaining about the predictability of the plays and they'd even call many of them out before hand.

Again, let me add that I'm not saying that Tebow played a great game. He definitely had his struggles. As I noted earlier in the thread, that happens some times, even to elite QBs like Tom Brady.

As for the defense itself, I still stand by what I said earlier. I don't know what kind of voodoo Belichick and company came up with, but they held both the Ravens and the Giants under their season avg in scoring. Ravens came in averaging 23.6 pts per game, defense held them to 20. Giants were averaging 24.6 pts per game, the D held them to 19.
 
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