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Tebow, Blount, Edelman

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So you are saying that if a player passes through waivers, that means no teams want him. This is your logic is it? There aren't perhaps other reasons for a player passing through waivers - like having to pick up his contract for example.

If a team thinks that Tebow was a starting quality quarterback and his annual contract value was less than $5 million a year then yea, his contract only adds to the team benefit of having a cost-controlled quarterback who would be a good starting quarterback.

Your argument is non sequitur. Suus beneficium es minimal in contendo ut alius satus quarterbacks in NFL.
 
I don't really care about the Broncos. I care about what he'll do for us in the future.

Do you think he's the quarterback of the future for the Patriots? If so, do you see him successfully running the Ehrhardt-Perkins?
 
From what I saw, McCoy's offense incorporated large chunks of Meyer's offense at Florida. The Broncos typically attacked one high safety by running the football (though it wasn't out of the ordinary to throw against it either), always attacked two high safeties with the run, and attacked through the air when both safeties cheated up and the CB's played straight press on the outside. Those were generally the rules for Meyer's spread option at Florida, and that's what the Broncos typically did since the spread was essentially a numbers game. That's why it looked predictable. Further, if you're going to make the point that the offense McCoy ran was predictable, you have to be able to account for the entire season, and not just one playoff game to excuse the quarterback.

Will start with your last point. Go back to any of the game day threads and you'll see people complaining about the predictability of the offense.


As for Denver and Urban's Spread, yeah, there were some similarities which you have mentioned, but that's where it stops. The beauty of Urban's spread is that it creates mismatches and to a large degree, dictates coverages. He literally spreads the field both in width and in depth.

Take the playoff game against the Pats for example. The base defense the Pats used all game was a version of a 50 defense, primarily, a 5-2. On almost every play, they had a 5 man front with 2 LBs, giving them 7 in the box. What did Denver counter this with ? Usually, tight formations with a 7 man line with Tebow under center, or in the gun, with a RB to one side or the other. Often, 1 of the WRs would be lined up tight as well, leaving 1 WR out wide to the other side.

Here's an example (both side view and rear view).





And another:





As you can see, the offense isn't "Spread" by any sense of the imagination. It doesn't dictate coverage or a change in defensive scheme.


I'm good on that, Demo. People here have complained that the play calling was too predictable under Weis, McDaniels, O'Brien, and McDaniels again after losses. Most fan bases use the "predictability of the play calling" as a coping mechanism for a loss to excuse the players and execution.

One key difference is that I'm not talking about guys pissing and moaning after a game. DURING the game, guys would sit there and call the plays right in the thread. First down, "Handoff to McGahee up the middle". Second down "Read Option left with McGahee". Third and long "Deep to Decker or DT".

Also, like I said, it wasn't just Tebow supporters who were making the comments. Even a number of Tebow critics were saying the same things.



Now we're getting somewhere.

Actually KontradictioN, I've been here all along, you are the one just getting there. I've never claimed that Tebow was a hall of famer, great, or even particularly good QB overall in 2011. I've said that he did pretty well given that he was a young and inexperienced QB with fewer than 16 starts under his belt coming in off the bench and taking over as the starter



There was no voodoo. I cited the changes that he made. The Ravens were actually on their way for the game-winning score before Sterling Moore made the play of his life, and were going to tie it, and meet their season average, before Cundiff choked on the fat one. They got in that position by finally abandoning the run and attacking us through the air. As for the Giants, good gameplan (take away the vertical passing game), bad execution on the rest of it. Further, Eli isn't the quarterback that some people make him out to be. He still went 30/40 though and controlled the clock for his team.

Eli might not be the QB that many make him out to be, but he's still Eli and he's better than Tebow (and most other QBs in the league) and much more experienced at the NFL level. Yet as I said, the Pats D held him and the Giants under their season avg. You say that it was a good game plan? Why wouldn't that apply to the Denver game as well ? Good game plan.
 
Do you think he's the quarterback of the future for the Patriots? If so, do you see him successfully running the Ehrhardt-Perkins?

No. I see him as a possible option sometime in the future at best. I think he is what he is - a 3rd string QB who will allow us to practice against the option and mobile QBs and I think he might one day be more than that (possibly, maybe).

BB likes to develop QBs and often drafts one, often quite highly. This way he gets a developmental QB at a very low price with actual NFL experience. If you ask me, that's genius!
 
And yet Elway still decided to move on from Tebow. For a good reason.

Yes, future first ballot HoF'er Peyton Manning was available. DUH.


You guys here have the luxury of having one of the few QB in history who's better than Peyton Manning. Most NFL teams aren't in that position.

It's not like they traded Tebow away for Christian Ponder or Tyler Palko.
 
It's totally understandable that you are not aware of how bad the Patriots defense really was, since you are new and were not watching this team a couple years ago. But the fact is, it was horrific. For reasons explained many times in this topic. If you choose not to see it that way then so be it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

And the fact they couldn't stop teams on the last drives in the biggest moments of the season, is very telling. Perhaps if Tebow played better, he might have been in a position to take advantage of it... and my money would have been on TT.

It's not that I wasn't watching the team, it's that I look at the metrics a bit differently than most. If a defense gives up 400 yards passing to Dan Orlovsky but only gives up 14 pts, I don't have a problem with that.

It's kind of like how some people will look at see that QB1 threw for 300 yards and will say that the guy had a good game, yet the team only scored 9 pts on 3 FGs.
 
Yes, future first ballot HoF'er Peyton Manning was available. DUH.


You guys here have the luxury of having one of the few QB in history who's better than Peyton Manning. Most NFL teams aren't in that position.

It's not like they traded Tebow away for Christian Ponder or Tyler Palko.

The same Peyton Manning that was coming off neck surgery and there was no way of knowing for sure if he'd be even close to the same Peyton Manning as before. Clearly Elway thought gambling on that was a safer bet than Tebow.
 
Have you answered the question as why Tebow wasn't good enough to backup Manning and he is good enough to back up Brady?

BTW, if Tebow were anywhere near as good as his fans think, he would have been picked up on waivers. His jets contract was no big deal for a starting quarterback of such talent. Finally, if Tebow were so good, another team would have signed him as a starter, or to compete for the starting position.

No, the reality is that the only place for Tebow was a place that didn't need a quarterback for at least a couple of years or who MIGHT want to use a roster spot to develop him into the only sub 50% quarterback to develop into a solid starter in the NFL.

The challenge is a big one. Belichick may be willing to keep Tebow on the roster for a year to compete for the next 3-4 year backup contract to be signed in 2014.

Yes, future first ballot HoF'er Peyton Manning was available. DUH.


You guys here have the luxury of having one of the few QB in history who's better than Peyton Manning. Most NFL teams aren't in that position.

It's not like they traded Tebow away for Christian Ponder or Tyler Palko.
 
Have you answered the question as why Tebow wasn't good enough to backup Manning and he is good enough to back up Brady?

Contract, media kerfuffle, draft a rookie to sit behind Manning for 3-4 years. Also, Tebow wasn't Elway's boy. IE, probably nothing football related.
 
It's not that I wasn't watching the team, it's that I look at the metrics a bit differently than most. If a defense gives up 400 yards passing to Dan Orlovsky but only gives up 14 pts, I don't have a problem with that.

It's kind of like how some people will look at see that QB1 threw for 300 yards and will say that the guy had a good game, yet the team only scored 9 pts on 3 FGs.

There's at least one major flaw in using points allowed as the only metric to evaluate a defense. It doesn't take into account how those points were allowed.

Points are scored against a team on a pick 6. How is that the defense's fault?

Player fumbles at his own 5 yard line, other team recovers. Other team then scores a TD. Why is that all the defense's fault?

Player returns a kickoff 80 yards, offense scores a TD. Why is that all their fault?

Team recovers onside kick, defense is gassed and gives up points. Why is that all their fault?

If you're giving up 400 yards to Dan Orlovsky but only give up 14 points, chances are you were very lucky instead of good.
 
Tebow fanatics love to play that card, but there really is a difference between being happy about how the game turned out and NOT being in denial about the big picture on what ACTUALLY happened.

I could have come away from that game with the warm and fuzzy feeling that Tebow could walk on water and pull out wins with fire in his eyes and bolts of lightning from his ass...

...or I could simply recognize that while a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while and while that was VERY exciting seeing the team get to the post season again, what HE did as an individual effort really wasn't all that damn special and simply wasn't a sustainable way to win. I TRULY think the defense deserved more thanks for that than Tebow, who, yes, did have his moments.

Elway agreed with the latter and moved on and now the team is light years better than it was in 2011. He traded Tebow away the NEXT DAY even with all the question marks about the neck and nerve damage in his arm. The end of the season didn't work out, but you'd be a damn fool if you thought the Broncos as a whole wasn't a whole lot better of a team in 2012 than they were in 2011.... MOSTLY on the upgrade of one position. 2012 didn't see a whole lot of changes on offense, unless you think and aged Brandon Stokley was the bigger diffference from being a near bottom ranked offense to a top 5 in ONE year.

Just face it.... Tebow was/is not that damn special.



Wow, really ? New QB comes in to take over as the starter and the former starter is sent packing ? I mean, THAT never happens in the NFL (Kurt Warner, twice, cough cough.)

Thanks for showing your complete lack of understanding of organizational dynamics. When a leader is replaced, even one who was just tagged as the "interim" holder of the position, they are often moved out when the new leader steps in. It's slightly different if a backup comes in for just a couple of games, or if the starter goes down to injury and comes back.

As for the offense, wow, really, bringing in Peyton Manning made them better ? You don't say. Of course, it was all him and no one else. Didn't matter that Decker and DT finally had some experience under the belts and another off season. Doesn't matter that Denver effectively had a new OC named Peyton Manning. Doesn't matter that they brought in a good TE in Jacob Tamme and basically ran the offense through him. And yes, bringing in Brandon Stokely DID help on a number of fronts, which is why they brought him in. He had familiarity with Manning and was a seasoned vet WR who could help Decker and DT in the WR room.
 
BTW, if Tebow were anywhere near as good as his fans think, he would have been picked up on waivers.

^ This

Perception is often reality, and that is certainly true here.
 
The same Peyton Manning that was coming off neck surgery and there was no way of knowing for sure if he'd be even close to the same Peyton Manning as before. Clearly Elway thought gambling on that was a safer bet than Tebow.


After having all the different doctors check him out and after getting lots of opinions and reassurances as to his health.

Quick question for you, how many starting QBs in this league are better than a Peyton Manning at 80% of his old self ? Or 70% ? Hell, even at 60%, Peyton is still better than most the other QBs in the league.

You'd be much better off going with the argument that Tebow isn't the style/type QB that Elway believes in. He wanted a pure pocket passer and that's what he went out and got.
 
After having all the different doctors check him out and after getting lots of opinions and reassurances as to his health.

Quick question for you, how many starting QBs in this league are better than a Peyton Manning at 80% of his old self ? Or 70% ? Hell, even at 60%, Peyton is still better than most the other QBs in the league.

You'd be much better off going with the argument that Tebow isn't the style/type QB that Elway believes in. He wanted a pure pocket passer and that's what he went out and got.

Sure but there was still still no way of knowing for sure until he steps on the field. Clearly Elway thought it was a gamble worth taking over the alternative.

He refused to commit to TT being the long term starter in Denver so obviously he had the idea that someone else at QB would give them a better chance to win.
 
BTW, if Tebow were anywhere near as good as his fans think, he would have been picked up on waivers.

^ This

Perception is often reality, and that is certainly true here.

Why would anyone want to absorb the costs associated with picking up ON waivers. I personally like the fact that the NYJ have to pay more to the Broncos than the Pats are paying for Tim due to picking him up OFF waivers.

P.S. manxman2601 said it better then me as I was composing this post.

SF
 
Why would anyone want to absorb the costs associated with picking up ON waivers. I personally like the fact that the NYJ have to pay more to the Broncos than the Pats are paying for Tim due to picking him up OFF waivers.

P.S. manxman2601 said it better then me as I was composing this post.

SF

I deleted my post because I thought I'd better check my facts first. But basically, what I said was:

1. No-one's really arguing that Tim Tebow is a starting QB right now (although I don't think you'd lose much at all if you started him over some QBs in the league.

2. So to a acquire a backup QB off waivers, teams would have to absorb a cap hit of 2.585m for the coming season.

3. Teams had already set their rosters through FA and the draft.

4. Or teams could wait until he cleared waivers and then sign him much much more cheaply. Which, duh! is exactly what happened.
 
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