Team needs?

[midwestpatsfan]

What does anyone think about Cody Whitehair falling to our 2nd rounder. Stock is too high currently but he's they type that might fall. Might be undersized for an OT but I wouldn't mind drafting a LG, switching Shaq to RG where I think he's more comfortable and having Tre as a backup.

"I think he's probably better at guard in our league, but he might be able to play all five positions if needed," an AFC scout told NFLDraftScout.com. "He knows how to neutralize speed off the edge or quickness inside ... very, very well-coached and it shows on film."

Cody Whitehair, OG, Kansas State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

I would love it. He is really smooth in his movements, but unless he does something bad off field, he is not going to make it to the Patriots.

 

[meatface]

They might have some pieces, if those pieces are all healthy, but they certainly don't have all the pieces.

I can very easily see the starting O-line be Solder-Mason-Andrews or stork-jackson or Stork -Vollmer. A similar line held up very well at the start of the season

 

[midwestpatsfan]

Let's talk Wide Receiver. I keep reading we need a big target who can go long. To me, we need a playmaker who can bust a long one from anywhere on the field. Easier said than done, but if the Patriots can get a guy with a similar skillset to Antonio Brown that would be a better fit. I know that is not easy to come by, but what I am trying to say is that we don't necessarily need the 6'3" guy who runs 9 routes all game long. A guy with elite quickness and speed would better fit with Brady and this offense. Who that guy is, I am not sure. I think a possession reciever with reliable hands to take over for LaFell would be good to.

 

[luuked]

Let's talk Wide Receiver. I keep reading we need a big target who can go long. To me, we need a playmaker who can bust a long one from anywhere on the field. Easier said than done, but if the Patriots can get a guy with a similar skillset to Antonio Brown that would be a better fit. I know that is not easy to come by, but what I am trying to say is that we don't necessarily need the 6'3" guy who runs 9 routes all game long. A guy with elite quickness and speed would better fit with Brady and this offense. Who that guy is, I am not sure. I think a possession reciever with reliable hands to take over for LaFell would be good to.

I agree. In fact I think that 6'3" guy you describe is a complementary piece that is not worth more than a day 3 selection in our offense. Everyone says that we need a "deep threat" to keep the defense honest but this only works if Brady and our playcalling also throw the ball downfield often enough for the opponent to perceive this "deep threat" as something legitimate. I quite honestly I don't see that happening.

Sure, we have the odd 2-3 plays a game that would go to LaFell, Dobson or Tyms but that's not our bread and butter. That's not how most of this team is built.

Like you said, the homerun for our existing offense would be an elite, stud version of Edelman.. which is essentially Antonio Brown.

 

[manxman2601]

I agree with @luuked and @midwestpatsfan

Two guys fit that bill with me. Obviously Braxton is one and whilst Sterling Shepherd doesn't have the size, he'd be the other one. Rashard Higgins is a third option.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I agree with @luuked and @midwestpatsfan

Two guys fit that bill with me. Obviously Braxton is one and whilst Sterling Shepherd doesn't have the size, he'd be the other one. Rashard Higgins is a third option.

I remain totally unconvinced that any rookie in this draft can come in and learn the playbook and gain Brady's trust.

At this point in his career, Brady needs veteran receivers who know the league.

 

[skinnydog]

I agree. In fact I think that 6'3" guy you describe is a complementary piece that is not worth more than a day 3 selection in our offense. Everyone says that we need a "deep threat" to keep the defense honest but this only works if Brady and our playcalling also throw the ball downfield often enough for the opponent to perceive this "deep threat" as something legitimate. I quite honestly I don't see that happening.

Sure, we have the odd 2-3 plays a game that would go to LaFell, Dobson or Tyms but that's not our bread and butter. That's not how most of this team is built.

Like you said, the homerun for our existing offense would be an elite, stud version of Edelman.. which is essentially Antonio Brown.

Whether you call it an outside the numbers threat or a deep threat I tend to see that as a need. I heard Rodney Harrison essentially saying this today. He commented that they need a deep threat to keep the safeties honest. In the Denver game the safeties were crashing down on the middle of the field and just lighting up Edelman and Amendola when the caught the ball. The better the defense, the more we seem to see this style of play and those better defenses all seem to end up in the playoffs. I thought Brady threw deep unite a bit this year, but he doesn't have a real downfield receiver on the other end. Being 6'3" isn't necessary, but at the same time it sure would be nice for Brady not to have to throw deep with pinpoint accuracy. For a change, how bout if Brady has a tallish receiver who can go up and catch contested passes.

 

[jboston19]

They're probably also looking long term with wrs, not just how they work with Brady but also who they can develop in the system they want. If Jimmy G is the qb of the future, it'd be better to get a young talent gaining experience with Brady now and also working with Jimmy G in practice.

 

[luuked]

I remain totally unconvinced that any rookie in this draft can come in and learn the playbook and gain Brady's trust.

At this point in his career, Brady needs veteran receivers who know the league.

You know that the league and organization will exist even after Brady retires, right ?

 

[luuked]

Whether you call it an outside the numbers threat or a deep threat I tend to see that as a need. I heard Rodney Harrison essentially saying this today. He commented that they need a deep threat to keep the safeties honest. In the Denver game the safeties were crashing down on the middle of the field and just lighting up Edelman and Amendola when the caught the ball. The better the defense, the more we seem to see this style of play and those better defenses all seem to end up in the playoffs. I thought Brady threw deep unite a bit this year, but he doesn't have a real downfield receiver on the other end. Being 6'3" isn't necessary, but at the same time it sure would be nice for Brady not to have to throw deep with pinpoint accuracy. For a change, how bout if Brady has a tallish receiver who can go up and catch contested passes.

Even you have that receiver you still need to convince the other team that he is not only a decoy but a legitimate threat. Otherwise you end up with a Mike Wallace situation where a deep receiver is on the field but no one really considers him a threat.

No deep threat WR would have helped us this year because even at their best the OL couldn't give Brady consistently enough time to complete those long passes. I understand what you and the media people are saying but being able to pull it off is not only about getting one of those "deep threats" but also adjusting the pieces around Brady to give him the space and time to make accurate deep throws.

 

[Gabriel_p94]

I think something that is just as important as a WR is a rb that cam actually run the ball. Every time James white was on the field defenses knew it was a pass. And I know Brady was able to make it work when it came to making the passes necessary to keep the drive alive but being so one dimensional will kill any team.

Also another thought. Knowing what we know now, could you imagine if we had signed Emanuel sanders. He seemed like he would of fit in perfectly with what we do. He runs great routes, fast, and can take a top off a defense so teams would have to respect the deep ball. Now I bring that up because I don't think we need a huge bodied receiver. I think we need someone who can run great routes with some speed. If you look at someone like amari cooper he's not the biggest but his route running gets him open alot. And I know I'm saying this like its easy to find this guy but I thought it would be something different to think about when it comes to WRs.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

As for team needs:

in my order of need:

starting caliber tackle
RB
linebacker
WR
CB


I would be fine with a line of Solder, Mason, Stork, Jackson, Vollmer.

The problems come once injuries start to hit. (and the complete lack of a second or third version of the silent snap count). I think that Andrews did a great job as Storks back up. I have serious questions about Cannon and Fleming.

Blount I think is done, time for another big time back. If only Gurley had lasted. Nobody of his caliber coming out in this draft.

Mayo most likely won't be back, and even if he is, another top line LB is needed.

I blue in the face asking for a tall WR that can stretch the field.

Can never have enough CBs, imagine how screwed the Pats would have been if either Ryan or Butler went down.

 

[skinnydog]

Even you have that receiver you still need to convince the other team that he is not only a decoy but a legitimate threat. Otherwise you end up with a Mike Wallace situation where a deep receiver is on the field but no one really considers him a threat.

No deep threat WR would have helped us this year because even at their best the OL couldn't give Brady consistently enough time to complete those long passes. I understand what you and the media people are saying but being able to pull it off is not only about getting one of those "deep threats" but also adjusting the pieces around Brady to give him the space and time to make accurate deep throws.

No question that a better offensive line is the number one need, but it's not just the "media" that thinks a deep threat would help. I'll stick with Rodney Harrison who came out and said a team need was a downfield receiver to keep the safeties honest.

 

[luuked]

No question that a better offensive line is the number one need, but it's not just the "media" that thinks a deep threat would help. I'll stick with Rodney Harrison who came out and said a team need was a downfield receiver to keep the safeties honest.

I have stopped listening to what Harrison has to say some time ago. Half of it is sadly the same gibberish drivel that also comes out of Dungy's mouth. And unfortunately this is part of this.

On paper of course it makes sense to have a player in your system that can stretch the field. But a) usually you have to invest a reasonably high draft pick or a lot of cap space to get a player like that and b) the surrounding pieces have to fit. But we are simply not in a situation where we can or should do that and people that want that deep WR threat are often trivializing the entire situation (i.e. "get a deep threat and suddenly the opponents will stop crowding the box").

There is no point in rebuilding half the team to change our identity so we can sustain a legitimate deep passing game. Especially because we would transition into a play style that is definitely not Brady's strength and more importantly might harm his longevity. And just to prevent the "Brady has a better deep ball than people give him credit for, see 2007" discussion; I am not saying he is a bad deep thrower but simply stating that the short passing game uses more of his strengths.

Realistically, the only thing we can really do is get 1-2 day 3 WR projects that fit the bill (and maybe some more UDFAs) and hope to luck out in finding someone that can fight for the ball 2-3 times a game. Because, again, there is no way that BB and McD will suddenly go away from our short passing game offense that has carried us to 5 straight AFCCGs.

 

[skinnydog]

I have stopped listening to what Harrison has to say some time ago. Half of it is sadly the same gibberish drivel that also comes out of Dungy's mouth. And unfortunately this is part of this.

On paper of course it makes sense to have a player in your system that can stretch the field. But a) usually you have to invest a reasonably high draft pick or a lot of cap space to get a player like that and b) the surrounding pieces have to fit. But we are simply not in a situation where we can or should do that and people that want that deep WR threat are often trivializing the entire situation (i.e. "get a deep threat and suddenly the opponents will stop crowding the box").

There is no point in rebuilding half the team to change our identity so we can sustain a legitimate deep passing game. Especially because we would transition into a play style that is definitely not Brady's strength and more importantly might harm his longevity. And just to prevent the "Brady has a better deep ball than people give him credit for, see 2007" discussion; I am not saying he is a bad deep thrower but simply stating that the short passing game uses more of his strengths.

Realistically, the only thing we can really do is get 1-2 day 3 WR projects that fit the bill (and maybe some more UDFAs) and hope to luck out in finding someone that can fight for the ball 2-3 times a game. Because, again, there is no way that BB and McD will suddenly go away from our short passing game offense that has carried us to 5 straight AFCCGs.

I actually don't have a go disagreement with what you are saying. I just think an outside/deep threat would help clear out the safeties from crashing down on the Pats short game with not a care in the world about getting beat deep. It's not to suddenly become a Ravens style throw it up and hope for PI type of team, but to enhance the short game and keep guys like Edelman from getting killed over the middle.

 

[luuked]

I actually don't have a go disagreement with what you are saying. I just think an outside/deep threat would help clear out the safeties from crashing down on the Pats short game with not a care in the world about getting beat deep. It's not to suddenly become a Ravens style throw it up and hope for PI type of team, but to enhance the short game and keep guys like Edelman from getting killed over the middle.

Yes I agree but for that to happen you not only need a "deep threat" player but you also need to legitimize that player by throwing to him successfully more often than our typical 2-3 deep plays a game. Otherwise the opponents will call your bluff and just stick their #3 CB in single coverage on him and you gain essentially nothing.

My point is that unless you acquire a big name player that immediately gets respected by the opponent (for the sake of the argument e.g. Megatron) you will have to do more than just get that "deep threat" player for the other team to make all the adjustments that you have mentioned.

 

[supafly]

I remain totally unconvinced that any rookie in this draft can come in and learn the playbook and gain Brady's trust.

At this point in his career, Brady needs veteran receivers who know the league.

While I couldn't possibly agree with you more and feel as though @luuked hit it on the head with the thought of a more physical, downfield threat who can stretch the middle in a more effective manner, I also think that we need to continue to address the position of WR via the draft in an attempt to build/develop for the future.

If we're speaking purely about 2016, then I'd much rather have a proven free agent vet like Anquan Boldin (and no, I'm not turned off by his age in the least if we're speaking of a 1-2 year deal) who can go over the middle and act as a physical threat via a potential improvement on the Llyod/LaFell role, as I believe that you're spot on that a guy like that would contribute much more quickly than any rookie draft pick.

 

[supafly]

Needs in order:

OL (OT takes priority, but IOL is still a need for the mid/later rounds--unless it's addressed in FA)
RB (have only taken 1 real RB since 2011 and that was James White, who isn't really a capable rusher)
LB (need to find a replacement to Mayo + depth and some bargaining leverage for Collins/HT)
CB/WR (always.....)

 

[AzorianPats]

The more I think about it, if Goodell doesn't take away our first rd pick, isn't Ragland the perfect BB MLB?

Mocks I've seen have him slotted around where we're picking. Damn shame...

 

[manxman2601]

The more I think about it, if Goodell doesn't take away our first rd pick, isn't Ragland the perfect BB MLB?

Mocks I've seen have him slotted around where we're picking. Damn shame...

Maybe BB might think him too similar to Hightower. But aside from that, yes I agree. Would have to be worthy of serious consideration.