Talib’s biggest challenge yet – can he/we contain Josh Gordon?

[Ozymandias]

I wish you would quit with your passive aggressive comprehend my argument style of posting you have become known for. Each to their own.

Try to stay on topic. No one cares what your opinion is of me. I don't know you or care to know you. Concern yourself with the argument, not argument style. All you're doing is trying to turn this into something that it isn't.

I really wish you would quit it with the double and triple coverages. That simply is not the case. Gordon is not double and triple covered nearly as much as you present. I've watched plenty of Browns games (being a fan of the NFL). He isn't assigned an extra defender more than any other impressive receiver.

You claim you've watched plenty of Brown games, but yet in the same breath go on to state that Gordon doesn't draw extra defensive attention that much in terms of bracket coverage, double or triple or otherwise.

With that, I now know not to take your arguments seriously in any sense. At least be consistent.

The funny thing here Ozymandias is you're not repeating fact, you're repeating opinion. Further to that point, most of your opinions read like a guy who has gone to NFLDraftScout and lifted their scouting reports then passed those opinions off as his own.

If you actually carefully read what I stated "but as to why I think he's a better all around receiver." It's called making a point, you know a real one, backed up by factual evidence instead of babbling. Try it sometime.

Listing off his physical attributes is me passing that off as my opinion now? I'm impressed by your ability to post in circles.

Gordon is a great young receiver. I am not debating that. Once you get passed this point, you'll start seeing the point with a little more clarity.

That's precisely the point, you saying that he's a great young receiver when that was never the issue. You claiming that he's not even as good as Julio Jones was. Once you actually see that he is in fact just as good as Jones, you might actually understand what's being stated here.

The question I proposed to you is do you think Gordon would be putting up these numbers in units where the targets/passes are spread more evenly given the greater talent, such as Atlanta?

Yes he is. I don't blame Gordon for the poor Quarterbacks he's forced to play with.

Blame him? Laughable.

Once again, that's the point though, regardless of the line-up that doesn't make him any less of a receiver/talent.

He's playing great without a great QB or a great supporting cast. If anything that should elevate what he's accomplishing this season. Did we knock Megatron when he was putting up monster stats because they had no else to throw to and he was the only one getting it done? Did that make him any LESS of a receiver?

Did we knock Larry Fitzgerald when he played with a QB-carousel and he didn't produce elite production or even average production for that matter? Did that make him any LESS of the receiver than he was?

No, it did not. So I fail to see why you'd even attempt to use that as a knock against Gordon. He's producing like you would expect a top receiver should this season. In addition to that, all of his physical talents makes him one the best in league right now.

Could Julio Jones do in Cleveland what Gordon has been doing? He probably could. But so could A.J. Green, or Calvin Johnson. That's what elite talented players do. But in same sense, Gordon is everything bit the receiver that Jones is and could do everything that Jones accomplished in Atlanta this season because both of them are on the same level. Both of them are elite receivers right now.

The only knock on Gordon would be his maturity. If he gets his head on straight and keeps himself out of trouble, you're looking at the closest thing in this league to a young Andre Johnson from a pure talent perspective.

That's because Gordon isn't a top 5 receiver. This season, he's having a top 5 receiver season but I like to see more than one season of elite performance before I throw a young, developing beast into the fray with the NFL elite.

By your own logic, Julio Jones isn't a top 5 receiver either that you claim he is. I mean after all he's only had one full season of "elite performance" right? Since that's the metric by which you're basing whether a receiver is elite or not, why is Jones is suddenly a top 5 receiver? And herein lies the premise of your contradictory statements that aren't to be taken at face value.

Since all it takes apparently is one full season of elite performance to be a top 5 receiver, here's a comparison of what Gordon has accomplished against the best of the best right now. Included in here is Julio Jones' only full season of what you yourself would classify as "elite performance."

Top NFL WRs' Sophomore Seasons

Player GP REC YDS TDS
Calvin Johnson 16 78 1,331 12
A.J. Green 16 97 1,350 11
Dez Bryant 15 63 928 9
Julio Jones 16 79 1,198 10
Josh Gordon 11 64 1,249 7​

The NFL is littered with guys who put together magnificent seasons, hell, recent memory includes Brandon Lloyd, Cecil Shorts and so forth. Hell, Percy Harvin has the elite moniker despite doing half of what Gordon is doing this season because he's a "dynamic playmaker". To me, labels are thrown around far to flippantly these days. I'd rather see prolonged performance than take a year in isolation.

This coming from the guy that just claimed Julio Jones is a top-5 receiver. Talk about rendering your own argument moot.

You'd rather see prolonged performance than take a year in isolation for Gordon's best (already better than Jones best by the way), but yet you'd disregard your own notions for Jones and unequivocally claim he is top-5 already despite not having the "prolonged performance" that you state here.

Try being objective, it's obvious that you're just being subjective with statements here because it doesn't fit your opinion.

Since all that you could accomplish here is a post laced with strawman arguments, ad hominems, and contradictory statements, it would seem you've got nothing further or relevant to add to this discussion. There's no purpose in carrying this any longer.

 

[ausbacker]

Try to stay on topic. No one cares what your opinion is of me. I don't know you or care to know you. Concern yourself with the argument, not argument style. All you're doing is trying to turn this into something that it isn't.

No, the problem is your own when you tell people they have comprehension problems.

You claim you've watched plenty of Brown games, but yet in the same breath go on to state that Gordon doesn't draw extra defensive attention that much in terms of bracket coverage, double or triple or otherwise.

With that, I now know not to take your arguments seriously in any sense. At least be consistent.

Once again, no. Gordon doesn't command more attention than any other excellent receiver. You're putting forward this comment as something which has no relevance to the conversation given most, if not all receivers playing well have extra attention thrown at them from time to time.

If you actually carefully read what I stated "but as to why I think he's a better all around receiver." It's called making a point, you know a real one, backed up by factual evidence instead of babbling. Try it sometime.

And I agreed, you were offering an opinion. Unfortunately you presented that opinion as fact. I never intimated my opinion was fact.

Listing off his physical attributes is me passing that off as my opinion now? I'm impressed by your ability to post in circles.

It really has no bearing on this discussion.

That's precisely the point, you saying that he's a great young receiver when that was never the issue. You claiming that he's not even as good as Julio Jones was. Once you actually see that he is in fact just as good as Jones, you might actually understand what's being stated here.

No, he's a super talent. Jones is an elite receiver. I mentioned that Gordon may very well insert himself into that discussion next season despite your want to discount what Jones was doing this season before his IR designation.

Blame him? Laughable.

I fail to see how being in agreement with you is laughable.

Once again, that's the point though, regardless of the line-up that doesn't make him any less of a receiver/talent.

I never said it made Gordon a lesser receiver, I asked you would Jones put up comparable numbers if the roles were switched?

He's playing great without a great QB or a great supporting cast. If anything that should elevate what he's accomplishing this season. Did we knock Megatron when he was putting up monster stats because they had no else to throw to and he was the only one getting it done? Did that make him any LESS of a receiver?

No it doesn't and I never intimated that it did. You're now inventing mistruths.

Did we knock Larry Fitzgerald when he played with a QB-carousel and he didn't produce elite production or even average production for that matter? Did that make him any LESS of the receiver than he was?

No and I never positioned this argument. You're inventing it to press you own agenda.

No, it did not. So I fail to see why you'd even attempt to use that as a knock against Gordon. He's producing like you would expect a top receiver should this season. In addition to that, all of his physical talents makes him one the best in league right now.

I've already said Gordon is having a terrific season. I have already said Gordon is in line to project himself into the elite category next season.

Could Julio Jones do in Cleveland what Gordon has been doing? He probably could. But so could A.J. Green, or Calvin Johnson. That's what elite talented players do. But in same sense, Gordon is everything bit the receiver that Jones is and could do everything that Jones accomplished in Atlanta this season because both of them are on the same level. Both of them are elite receivers right now.

No, Gordon is playing to an elite level. Once he proves he can do it for more than one season, he's an elite receiver. I made mention of the fact that I don't ever use a single season to properly appraise a player.

The only knock on Gordon would be his maturity. If he gets his head on straight and keeps himself out of trouble, you're looking at the closest thing in this league to a young Andre Johnson from a pure talent perspective.

I don't disagree with you, thus my want to stick out and see if Gordon can do it for more than one season.

By your own logic, Julio Jones isn't a top 5 receiver either that you claim he is. I mean after all he's only had one full season of "elite performance" right? Since that's the metric by which you're basing whether a receiver is elite or not, why is Jones is suddenly a top 5 receiver? And herein lies the premise of your contradictory statements that aren't to be taken at face value.

You're welcome to disagree that Julio Jones isn't a top 5 Wide Receiver in the NFL.

Since all it takes apparently is one full season of elite performance to be a top 5 receiver, here's a comparison of what Gordon has accomplished against the best of the best right now. Included in here is Julio Jones' only full season of what you yourself would classify as "elite performance."

Top NFL WRs' Sophomore Seasons

Player GP REC YDS TDS
Calvin Johnson 16 78 1,331 12
A.J. Green 16 97 1,350 11
Dez Bryant 15 63 928 9
Julio Jones 16 79 1,198 10
Josh Gordon 11 64 1,249 7​

This coming from the guy that just claimed Julio Jones is a top-5 receiver. Talk about rendering your own argument moot.

That's great. Luckily, I don't use one season nor do I use numbers in isolation to appraise players as you seem intent on.

You'd rather see prolonged performance than take a year in isolation for Gordon's best (already better than Jones best by the way), but yet you'd disregard your own notions for Jones and unequivocally claim he is top-5 already despite not having the "prolonged performance" that you state here.

No.

Try being objective, it's obvious that you're just being subjective with statements here because it doesn't fit your opinion.

I am being objective. I don't agree with you right now but I mentioned I am willing to agree with you in the future. If that's not objective then I don't know how I can be fairer to your ego.

Since all that you could accomplish here is a post laced with strawman arguments, ad hominems, and contradictory statements, it would seem you've got nothing further or relevant to add to this discussion. There's no purpose in carrying this any longer.

Sure.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Talib's biggest challenge: get a new hip

 

[Ozymandias]

Once again, no. Gordon doesn't command more attention than any other excellent receiver. You're putting forward this comment as something which has no relevance to the conversation given most, if not all receivers playing well have extra attention thrown at them from time to time.

Except that wasn't what the discussion was about. First, you claimed to have watched lots of Browns games "being a fan of the NFL" and then went on to state that he doesn't demand that much defensive attention which you were clearly wrong about. Now that that has been debunked, you're deviating again to another strawman argument about "any other excellent receiver" and the attention they command, as if that has anything to do with whether Gordon demands defensive attention or not. It doesn't.

Unfortunately you presented that opinion as fact. I never intimated my opinion was fact.

You also haven't backed anything with any factual evidence either unlike I did. I made a statement (my opinion) that I believe they're both in the same ballpark as talented players, and used evidence to show how I came to that conclusion. You've done no such thing. From the jump, you've went from, "Gordon isn't as good." To when shown stats suggesting he's every bit as good to, "Well he hasn't done it long enough to be top-5." To completely ignoring the fact that neither has Julio Jones. By own logic Jones shouldn't be considered top-5 either. It's difficult to take you seriously when you're contradicting yourself like that.

It really has no bearing on this discussion

Providing evidence on how they're physically comparable has a lot bearing on this discussion.

No, he's a super talent. Jones is an elite receiver. I mentioned that Gordon may very well insert himself into that discussion next season despite your want to discount what Jones was doing this season before his IR designation.

No one is discounting anything. I've always held that Jones is a top-5 receiver and have since last season. I didn't need "prolonged performance" to come to notion like you did with... Oh wait... You didn't need either. You only needed prolonged performance for Gordon, but not for Jones for some illogical reasoning, because... umm... well... We still haven't been given logical answer to that. You've decided to dance around that issue.

I fail to see how being in agreement with you is laughable.

You could have stopped at "I fail to see" and you'd have the answer for a lot of the confusion you seem to have.

I never said it made Gordon a lesser receiver, I asked you would Jones put up comparable numbers if the roles were switched?

Regardless of whether you did or not (you did, by the way), you're insinuating that. If you didn't think Gordon was a "lesser" receiver, what purpose would it serve to even question whether they'd have comparable stats in the roles were reversed. That makes zero sense. You'd only make that assessment when you think there's a huge gap in talent. What evidence have you provided to prove that Jones is the way better receiver and would produce way more than Gordon did. Was it production? Nope. How about game tape? Nope. What about physical talent? Nope. So you've offered nothing here. Beside being complete conjecture, why wouldn't Gordon still be a statistical monster in Atlanta? He'd be playing with a better QB, with a better receiving corps, and a more stable offense in a favorable environment of a dome for at minimum 9 games instead of Ohio. Gordon would be a monster in any offense. Playing with 3 average-to-below average-to trash QBs in a terrible offense and still producing at the pace he has is clear proof of that.

No it doesn't and I never intimated that it did. You're now inventing mistruths.

No one ever said you intimated anything. Read slowly. "We" is not you.

No and I never positioned this argument. You're inventing it to press you own agenda.

No one ever said you positioned anything. Read slowly. "We" is not you.

I've already said Gordon is having a terrific season. I have already said Gordon is in line to project himself into the elite category next season.

Stop trying to deviate by altering your premise.

No, Gordon is playing to an elite level. Once he proves he can do it for more than one season, he's an elite receiver. I made mention of the fact that I don't ever use a single season to properly appraise a player.

Yet, you've basically done that for Jones. JJ has only had one full season of "elite performance" and he hasn't had the prolonged performance that you've used against JG. What's the exact difference between Jones and Gordon that separates one from the other, exactly? To be frank, in his second season Gordon > Jones' second season. So when exactly did Jones become an elite top-5 receiver? You mean this season, the season he didn't even complete? So basically 34 games worth of production is all it took to decide whether or not Jones was elite or not. But once Gordon completes 30 games at the end of this season it's still not enough apparently. Those 4 games make up ALL that difference. 34 games is prolonged performance, but 30 isn't. That's hilarious.

I don't disagree with you, thus my want to stick out and see if Gordon can do it for more than one season.

Again, you should be saying the same for Julio Jones too then. Be consistent with your beliefs.

You're welcome to disagree that Julio Jones isn't a top 5 Wide Receiver in the NFL.

I consider both of them to be top-5 right now. So I would be contradicting myself like you do if I tried to disagree with myself. How you manage to get that idea from me saying that since neither one of those guys has the prolonged performance that you speak of, undermines your entire Gordon is not elite argument, is me saying Jones isn't top-5 is beyond me.

That's great. Luckily, I don't use one season nor do I use numbers in isolation to appraise players as you seem intent on.

No.

You have no logical response here, because even if you attempted too, it would undermine your entire premise.

I am being objective. I don't agree with you right now but I mentioned I am willing to agree with you in the future. If that's not objective then I don't know how I can be fairer to your ego

Except that you're not being objective. If you were you'd say either both are elite or neither are elite. Because the same metric you're using against one would work against the other as well. By the end of his second season Jones had played in 29 games and had 133 catches for 2157 yards (16.2). In 26 games, Gordon has had 114 catches for 2054 yards (18.0 YPR). Gordon is already well ahead of the pace set by Jones and with 4 more games remaining, he's going to shatter that mark. That's objectivity.

Jones has only had one full season of elite production. So suddenly his game 5 games this year is this prolonged performance you speak of and is the difference between him being elite or not? All it takes is 5 games for one guy to be considered elite from one year to the next by your logic.

That, along your statements, contradicts everything you're saying about whether Gordon is elite or not, which was the real discussion here. In addition to that, you've offered nothing but conjecture on the topic of whether they are as good as one another. No stats, no game-film, no measurable comparisons. Nothing, nada. Since you've had several posts to do so, but failed utterly there's no point in wasting anymore time on this with you.

You can continue your pointless diatribe until you are blue in the face, but all that's left to do now is something I should have done ages ago and that's place you on my ignore list so I don't have subject myself to reading through your nonsense any further.

 

[supafly]

The answer to this question will depend on what scheme and technique we deploy vs Cleveland.

For instance, if Jason Campbell plays with a tendency to scramble a bit and throw on the run, we may go with more zone looks as we did with Houston last weekend.

That zone coverage allowed Andre Johnson to have a pretty big day with 8 catches for 121 yards, although Aqib Talib (according to one local beat reporters calculation) only had Talib giving up 4 catches for 43 yards of that production. Either way, Talib definitely didn't get the best of A.Johnson on Sunday, only preventing 1/5 targets against him, giving Johnson the 4/5 upper hand.

If another QB such as Weeden plays, we may go with more man looks, which would mean that Talib will face Gordon one on one much more than any zone. That may help to prevent/limit his production, but my guess is that Gordon has another big day vs our secondary no matter what.

 

[ausbacker]

Except that wasn't what the discussion was about. First, you claimed to have watched lots of Browns games "being a fan of the NFL" and then went on to state that he doesn't demand that much defensive attention which you were clearly wrong about. Now that that has been debunked, you're deviating again to another strawman argument about "any other excellent receiver" and the attention they command, as if that has anything to do with whether Gordon demands defensive attention or not. It doesn't.

No, you're simply lying through your teeth now and you've thrown out the label of a strawman argument whilst using it misrepresent what I have put forward as opinion.

You also haven't backed anything with any factual evidence either unlike I did. I made a statement (my opinion) that I believe they're both in the same ballpark as talented players, and used evidence to show how I came to that conclusion. You've done no such thing. From the jump, you've went from, "Gordon isn't as good." To when shown stats suggesting he's every bit as good to, "Well he hasn't done it long enough to be top-5." To completely ignoring the fact that neither has Julio Jones. By own logic Jones shouldn't be considered top-5 either. It's difficult to take you seriously when you're contradicting yourself like that.

I didn't see the need to pull numbers given you and others put them forward. I didn't see the need to pull numbers because unlike you, I appreciate that Jones has been sharing the numbers with the other offensive weapons Atlanta has had as their disposal. I also qualified for you, that I don't appraise players on numbers alone. This is something that I have said in many threads and the sole reason I attacked Mayo's detractors with zest.

Providing evidence on how they're physically comparable has a lot bearing on this discussion.

If you say so.

No one is discounting anything. I've always held that Jones is a top-5 receiver and have since last season. I didn't need "prolonged performance" to come to notion like you did with... Oh wait... You didn't need either. You only needed prolonged performance for Gordon, but not for Jones for some illogical reasoning, because... umm... well... We still haven't been given logical answer to that. You've decided to dance around that issue.

Jones had an impressive rookie season, a very good sophomore season and was on his way to having an excellent season before he was injured. Going into last season, I held the same belief toward Jones. Gordon is tracking on the same trajectory, if not better. That doesn't make him elite right now. It may in your world and you're welcome to that appraisal.

You could have stopped at "I fail to see" and you'd have the answer for a lot of the confusion you seem to have.

Probably, but where's the fun in that?

Regardless of whether you did or not (you did, by the way), you're insinuating that. If you didn't think Gordon was a "lesser" receiver, what purpose would it serve to even question whether they'd have comparable stats in the roles were reversed. That makes zero sense. You'd only make that assessment when you think there's a huge gap in talent. What evidence have you provided to prove that Jones is the way better receiver and would produce way more than Gordon did. Was it production? Nope. How about game tape? Nope. What about physical talent? Nope. So you've offered nothing here. Beside being complete conjecture, why wouldn't Gordon still be a statistical monster in Atlanta? He'd be playing with a better QB, with a better receiving corps, and a more stable offense in a favorable environment of a dome for at minimum 9 games instead of Ohio. Gordon would be a monster in any offense. Playing with 3 average-to-below average-to trash QBs in a terrible offense and still producing at the pace he has is clear proof of that.
No one ever said you intimated anything. Read slowly. "We" is not you.
No one ever said you positioned anything. Read slowly. "We" is not you.
Stop trying to deviate by altering your premise.

Finally, an answer from you regarding Gordon and his numbers in Atlanta's O. FTR, I don't believe that to be the case because unlike the Browns, other receivers can get open in Atlanta. That shouldn't take away from Gordon because I do believe he is an outstanding talent.

Yet, you've basically done that for Jones. JJ has only had one full season of "elite performance" and he hasn't had the prolonged performance that you've used against JG. What's the exact difference between Jones and Gordon that separates one from the other, exactly? To be frank, in his second season Gordon > Jones' second season. So when exactly did Jones become an elite top-5 receiver? You mean this season, the season he didn't even complete? So basically 34 games worth of production is all it took to decide whether or not Jones was elite or not. But once Gordon completes 30 games at the end of this season it's still not enough apparently. Those 4 games make up ALL that difference. 34 games is prolonged performance, but 30 isn't. That's hilarious.

I have already qualified why I consider Jones elite and why I believe Gordon is tracking to become an elite receiver. The fault is yours in not accepting an opinion that isn't the same as your own. FYI, my elite receivers going in to 2013 were Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green and Julio Jones.

Again, you should be saying the same for Julio Jones too then. Be consistent with your beliefs.

I have been consistent. You're the flip flopper.

I consider both of them to be top-5 right now. So I would be contradicting myself like you do if I tried to disagree with myself. How you manage to get that idea from me saying that since neither one of those guys has the prolonged performance that you speak of, undermines your entire Gordon is not elite argument, is me saying Jones isn't top-5 is beyond me.

Gordon isn't elite, yet. It doesn't bother me if you don't believe that Jones is elite or he isn't elite.

You have no logical response here, because even if you attempted too, it would undermine your entire premise.

No.

Except that you're not being objective. If you were you'd say either both are elite or neither are elite. Because the same metric you're using against one would work against the other as well. By the end of his second season Jones had played in 29 games and had 133 catches for 2157 yards (16.2). In 26 games, Gordon has had 114 catches for 2054 yards (18.0 YPR). Gordon is already well ahead of the pace set by Jones and with 4 more games remaining, he's going to shatter that mark. That's objectivity.

I'm being objective. I have said many, many times that if Gordon continues this pace into next season, I will consider him a top 3 receiver in the NFL, which I consider the elite bracket.

Jones has only had one full season of elite production. So suddenly his game 5 games this year is this prolonged performance you speak of and is the difference between him being elite or not? All it takes is 5 games for one guy to be considered elite from one year to the next by your logic.

A lot can happen in 5 games, especially if those games are spread across seasons.

That, along your statements, contradicts everything you're saying about whether Gordon is elite or not, which was the real discussion here. In addition to that, you've offered nothing but conjecture on the topic of whether they are as good as one another. No stats, no game-film, no measurable comparisons. Nothing, nada. Since you've had several posts to do so, but failed utterly there's no point in wasting anymore time on this with you.

No, it doesn't.

You can continue your pointless diatribe until you are blue in the face, but all that's left to do now is something I should have done ages ago and that's place you on my ignore list so I don't have subject myself to reading through your nonsense any further.

I suggest a football forum probably isn't the right place for you to be exchanging opinions with people if you only feel the need to surround yourself with people who agree with you.

If you would like to have the last word, you're welcome to it.

 

[AzorianPats]

I think there's 3 tiers of elite WR..

Tier 1. Calvin Johnson

Tier 2. Aj Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas

Tier 3. Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Andre Johnson, Josh Gordon

 

[slash83]

There's no reason Gordon won't be doubled, Talib manned up with Dmac playing up top. Make Cleveland beat you with other players.

 

[AzorianPats]

There's no reason Gordon won't be doubled, Talib manned up with Dmac playing up top. Make Cleveland beat you with other players.

That will work vs Cleveland because outside of Hoyer, Cleveland has no QB this year that goes thru their progressions. With that, if we leave Jordan Cameron open he can burn us.

Cameron an average QB away from being an elite TE

 

[slash83]

That will work vs Cleveland because outside of Hoyer, Cleveland has no QB this year that goes thru their progressions. With that, if we leave Jordan Cameron open he can burn us.

Cameron an average QB away from being an elite TE

He seems like a good player, if I'm BB I'll take my chances though.

 

[Brady6]

I think there's 3 tiers of elite WR..

Tier 1. Calvin Johnson

Tier 2. Aj Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Demaryius Thomas

Tier 3. Brandon Marshall, Eric Decker, Andre Johnson, Josh Gordon

Gordon is certainly playing at the tier 2 level currently. Is it an admiration I am not sure because it is only his second season, these are their stats YTD and as you can see most of them player for with a top 15 QB.

Johnson (Stafford): 11 games| 72 receptions| 1299 receiving yards| 18.0 average| 12 touchdowns
Green (Dalton): 12 games| 72 receptions| 1103 receiving yards| 15.3 average| 7 touchdowns
Bryant (Romo): 12 games| 68 receptions| 896 receiving yards| 13.2 average| 9 touchdowns
Thomas (Manning): 12 games| 67 receptions| 1061 receiving yards| 15.8 average| 10 touchdowns
Jones (Ryan): 5 games| 41 receptions| 580 receiving yards| 14.1 average| 2 touchdowns
Gordon (Weeden, Hoyer, Campbell): 10 games| 64 receptions| 1249 receiving yards| 19.5 average| 7 touchdowns

Personally my ranks would be:

Class of his own: C. Johnson
Second level: Green, Thomas, Jones*, Gordon, A. Johnson, Fitzgerald, Bryant, Marshall, White*
Third level: Jeffrey, Brown, D. Jackson, V. Jackson, Decker, Boldin, Nelson, Crabtree*, Harvin*, S. Smith, Cruz, Wayne*

*When healthy.

 

[PatsFan2]

Gordon is certainly playing at the tier 2 level currently. Is it an admiration I am not sure because it is only his second season, these are their stats YTD and as you can see most of them player for with a top 15 QB.

Johnson (Stafford): 11 games| 72 receptions| 1299 receiving yards| 18.0 average| 12 touchdowns
Green (Dalton): 12 games| 72 receptions| 1103 receiving yards| 15.3 average| 7 touchdowns
Bryant (Romo): 12 games| 68 receptions| 896 receiving yards| 13.2 average| 9 touchdowns
Thomas (Manning): 12 games| 67 receptions| 1061 receiving yards| 15.8 average| 10 touchdowns
Jones (Ryan): 5 games| 41 receptions| 580 receiving yards| 14.1 average| 2 touchdowns
Gordon (Weeden, Hoyer, Campbell): 10 games| 64 receptions| 1249 receiving yards| 19.5 average| 7 touchdowns

Personally my ranks would be:

Class of his own: C. Johnson
Second level: Green, Thomas, Jones*, Gordon, A. Johnson, Fitzgerald, Bryant, Marshall, White*
Third level: Jeffrey, Brown, D. Jackson, V. Jackson, Decker, Boldin, Nelson, Crabtree*, Harvin*, S. Smith, Cruz, Wayne*

*When healthy.

Brady6 in the Second tier you left out Justin Blackmonn who is also a feak at the position.

 

[Brady6]

Brady6 in the Second tier you left out Justin Blackmonn who is also a feak at the position.

He is but I'm not sure if he is even going to make it in the NFL.

 

[PatsFan2]

He is but I'm not sure if he is even going to make it in the NFL.

I really hope he turns it around he's fun to watch play. By the way Great call on Josh Gordon the Browns with what they have at WR and TE are just a QB away from being a good Team.

 

[Brady6]

That will work vs Cleveland because outside of Hoyer, Cleveland has no QB this year that goes thru their progressions. With that, if we leave Jordan Cameron open he can burn us.

Cameron an average QB away from being an elite TE

Oh yeah totally agree! The kid is a stud, he would be the perfect flex tight end in our system he would probably even be better at it then the Defendant.

In the 2 games Cameron played with Hoyer as the starting QB he was at his best:

Targets – 23
Receptions – 16
Reception ratio – 69.56%
Receiving yards – 167
Average per reception – 10.43
Touchdowns – 4

I found this to be particularly interesting consider Hoyer practiced so much in a two tight end offense during his time here.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I like Gordon's chances in a one on one matchup. Talib isn't the same guy we saw before he got injured.

Are you a Browns fan or a Pats fan? Just checking. LOL
I think the Pats will gameplan to do what they need to win.
BB is famous for taking away what a team likes to do.