Strange's situation may affect things this offseason, isn't expected to participate

[PatsFan2]

Three is no Stop gap LT in Free Agency. If you're adding someone in the draft, you add the LT.
The Pats have McDermott and Jake Andrews who have played guard.

The Pats need to grab 2 OTs in the Draft. A LT and a Swing Tackle.

McDermott and Steuber can both play inside at OG. What Wheatley Jr brings remains to be seen. Calvin Anderson and Verderian Lowe should be LTs only. The Lowe experiment at RT should never have been done. Lowe hadn't played RT in 6 years because he's on of those guys who can't do the switch.. They realized that in College and in Minnesota..

Trent Brown says hello.

 

[Ian]

So they panicked and overdrafted Strange. Some players are so good you overdraft them. Strange was never that sort of player. They could have easily drafter Christian Watson there (not great but much better than Thornton) then Luke Goedeke in the second where they drafted Thornton. Goedeke was projected as a guard and played guard for Tampa in his first year then was their starting R tackle this past year. Hmm, maybe the Pats could use a player like that. Really, this all started when they failed to sign Thuney in 2021. Instead of paying him they’ve been trying to lock down the L Guard position ever since.

I already mentioned that it was less of a panic pick and more of a "might as well take him now rather than move back 4-5 spots and possibly lose him." But you'll get no argument here about Thornton, and I also agree on the fact he sort of created the need at guard given how everything played out.

 

[Ian]

Trent Brown says hello.

Too risky. He's a guy that when he's on, he's on. But when he's not, it's an issue. I mentioned it this morning but Calvin Anderson is another dark horse after recently talking about how the illness nearly cost him his life and that he's now on a mission to get back to where he was prior to when he got sick.

 

[skinnydog]

I already mentioned that it was less of a panic pick and more of a "might as well take him now rather than move back 4-5 spots and possibly lose him." But you'll get no argument here about Thornton, and I also agree on the fact he sort of created the need at guard given how everything played out.

It’s a pattern the Pats seem to have developed over the past decade. Fail to sign a good player to a second contract and then have to fill the self created roster hole through the draft or with a lower priced and usually less talented free agent. Instead of getting better they were just treading water.

 

[PatsFan2]

Too risky. He's a guy that when he's on, he's on. But when he's not, it's an issue. I mentioned it this morning but Calvin Anderson is another dark horse after recently talking about how the illness nearly cost him his life and that he's now on a mission to get back to where he was prior to when he got sick.

Ian: he's only 30 maybe he had a problem with the old HC who ain't here. I would give him a nice two year deal until our Rookie Left Tackle is ready. As terrible as FA looks on Offense we have Two of the Top guys in the Trenches listed as FA's Brown and Onwenu is going get paid regardless.

 

[Ian]

Ian: he's only 30 maybe he had a problem with the old HC who ain't here. I would give him a nice two year deal until our Rookie Left Tackle is ready. As terrible as FA looks on Offense we have Two of Top guys in the Trenches listed as FA's Brown and Onwenu is going get paid regardless.

You say that, but that would also infer that he was a model citizen when he wasn't here. He's been here twice and used it as a springboard each time to rebuild his reputation. That whole "fool me once..." thing.

 

[Scotty]

This situation makes pick 34 all the more important , assuming it will be a tackle ? I cant remember the number of guys deemed to be at the top of the tackles available in the draft possibly 8 ??....after that there is a drop off but still some players that could play in the first year.

 

[mgteich]

This situation makes pick 34 all the more important , assuming it will be a tackle ? I cant remember the number of guys deemed to be at the top of the tackles available in the draft possibly 8 ??....after that there is a drop off but still some players that could play in the first year.

There is a large drop-off after the top 8, and we may not even want all of the top 8. Of course, some or LT's and some are RT's. All may be gone by the end of the first. If we want a better choice than maybe the one that is left, we may need to trade up, using or 3rd.

There is another group of NFL quality OT's in the late 3rd and 4th (my recollection, please correct if I am wrong). That doesn't mean that these players won't need a year to develop. But this is great value for a potential future starter.

There are a lot of variables before the draft. Is Anderson healthy enough to be our swing OT? Is Onwenu going to be re-signed? Is Strange going to be able to play? Will we be able to sign a starting LT in free agency? Will we be able to sign a swing OT in free agency, perhaps from one of the OC's old teams?

 

[AQPE]

Getting back to the topic of Cole Strange, hopefully he returns to full health and strength. If so he has demonstrated that he is certainly good enough to play at an acceptable level. Struggling against Quinnen Williams and DeForest Buckner is not exactly a disgrace, especially when playing on an injured knee in Year 2 and with the distinct disadvantage of having Patricia, Yates, and Klemm as his coaches for two years. I’m annoyed with the pick but it’s crying over spilled milk, and they do have better backup OGs now than they did going into both of the past 2 seasons. The coaching change gives me renewed hope for improvement next season.

A hidden issue that is pertinent here is the effect on David Andrews having to cover for a rookie for a huge number of snaps last season, which I think was a reason why Jake Andrews wasn’t able to play as much as we may have hoped he would last year. I’m optimistic that will be better too.

Sign Big Mike and nail down RG and keep the other 3 OGs to play LG and backup and if the coaching and conditioning are successful they’ll have a good enough situation for the IOL.

OT is a dumpster fire for this team, I’m not ready to give up on Anderson or Wheatley as swing tackle possibilities. That means to me their focus has to be on bringing in the best possible FA to play LT and draft a guy no later than Day 2 to groom for that spot after spending year 1 at RT. They do that and if Anderson or Wheatley come around, better yet both, and they keep McDermott on the roster or PS, this may work out better going forward.

 

[Sfpat]

Seattle, Minnesota, Tampa, and the Titans were all said to be looking at Strange at the end of the 1st round beginning of the Second. So he was going to be gone.

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Certain people on here run their mouths like they know better on a regular basis. But they keep forgetting that they're nobodies who have accomplished nothing in regards to football while taking shots at the GOAT as if their s**t don't stink. It's hilarious and shows that they aren't worth listening to.

I don't think it was a fault of McVey's scouting as I think McVey had a pretty high grade on Strange but was hoping all other teams were relying on the mock drafts and he could get a steal. It now appears multiple teams also had high grades on Strange.

 

[skinnydog]

Seattle, Minnesota, Tampa, and the Titans were all said to be looking at Strange at the end of the 1st round beginning of the Second. So he was going to be gone.

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Certain people on here run their mouths like they know better on a regular basis. But they keep forgetting that they're nobodies who have accomplished nothing in regards to football while taking shots at the GOAT as if their s**t don't stink. It's hilarious and shows that they aren't worth listening to.

Maybe, maybe not. I’ve seen no statements from any of those teams that they were ready to take Strange at the end of the 1st or top of 2nd over the player they actually drafted. We do know because we saw it that McVey laughed at the pick and stated they were looking at him as a 4th round pick. McVey looks correct in his scouting. Strange has looked OK, good even, but never special. Plenty of 3rd to 4th round guards fall into that category. BB made good to great picks over the years. This was not one of them.

 

[203Pat]

Agree, they gambled and lost there.

I agree, but you're still looking at him as a first-round guy when he was in essence an early 2nd rounder. Again, I think if they could have traded back knowing they could get him early in round two, they probably would have. I feel like the issue was they likely didn't want to miss out again on one of the first few guys on their board after getting jumped, so they just went ahead and took him a few slots earlier with the benefit of that fifth-year option if he does eventually rebound and develop.

But I'm with you - with hindsight being what it is they may have been better off sitting at 21 and taking one of those defensive guys. Although, I'm not at home so I forget the picks they picked up when they traded back and who else it yielded.

We got a 3rd and a 4th from KC and traded that KC 3rd to Carolina who took old friend, Matt Corral. We got back a third from Carolina in 2023 (Mapu) a 2022 4th where we selected Zappe. We used KC's 4th on Jack Jones.

So basically we didn't get anything of any value unless Mapu finds a role going forward.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Anyone who doesn't have an issue with how we ended up with Strange has to be a major Bill apologist. Bill created the need for a starting guard by screwing up the situation with any one of the three of: Thuney, Mason, and Karras. Then he drafted a guy in the first when we have generally always been able to find guards in the middle rounds (see all three above).

You also gloss over moving down from 21 to 27 when guys at positions of need were all taken in that gap. We traded with the Chiefs who took an all pro corner. The Cowboys ended up taking a second team all pro tackle in Tyler Smith and the Jets took a pro bowl linebacker in Jermaine Johnson. The Jags also took a promising LB in Devin Lloyd, the Ravens got a pro bowl center, and the Packers took a disruptive defensive tackle who looked like he started to emerge last season. That is two all pros, two pro bowlers, and two promising players we decided to pass on so Bill could reach on a position that was only a need because of his own ineptitude.

Cole Strange also hasn't performed "very well" when healthy. He has been benched multiple times in his very short career. He also gets manhandled by some of the league's better interior linemen like Deforest Buckner and Quinnen Williams. It was far from "solid drafting" and at this rate there is no chance that he is here 3 more years as that would mean they would be picking up his 5th year option for around $20 million. Calling him anything in the same stratosphere to Stephen Neal is a complete insult to Stephen Neal.

I could turn that around to say that anyone who bitterly complains about the drafting of Cole Strange must be a major Bill hater.

We had the 21st pick. We traded down to 29 for a 3rd and a 4th, which all by itself was a good move. At 29 we picked Strange, who is a starting guard and will be for the remainder of his time here. When you land a starting G at 29, that's a good result, especially for an athlete like Strange whose RAS was like top 10 out of the past 500 OL drafted, and who our staff spent a solid week with at the Senior Bowl. There's very few guards that move like Strange, he's a quality player.

The ancient history about Thuney and Mason is just that. Thuney priced himself out of town at $14+m per year, which in today's dollars and cap would be at least $18-19m. Good bye Joe, no problem with that move. Both he and Mason were good players, but we got comp + cap relief so imo we did fine navigating through all that.

Strange may have hit the bench a couple of times in his rookie year, but last year he was battling an injury from training camp on, so you can attribute any bench time to that. And also not to mention that his rookie year was the disaster of Patricia, and last year was just as bad with the OL coach checking out of town.

 

[vicspats]

Cooper Beebe is a mauler probly late second or third? He reminds me of Mankins.

 

[AQPE]

Maybe, maybe not. I’ve seen no statements from any of those teams that they were ready to take Strange at the end of the 1st or top of 2nd over the player they actually drafted. We do know because we saw it that McVey laughed at the pick and stated they were looking at him as a 4th round pick. McVey looks correct in his scouting. Strange has looked OK, good even, but never special. Plenty of 3rd to 4th round guards fall into that category. BB made good to great picks over the years. This was not one of them.

1. Why would teams say they wanted Strange when they wound up with someone else? That would do nothing for them but piss off the guy they drafted.

2. Regarding the Rams specifically, in reference to Cole Strange, in that year's draft their first pick was in the 3rd round. Guess what position the player was that they picked? The next year (2023) they again had no 1st round pick so their first pick of the draft was in the 2nd round. Guess what position the player was that they picked? So they used their top picks two years in a row on OGs. I find that compelling whenever someone brings up McVay and Snead's reaction to the Strange pick.

3. As stated above, I think it was a poor choice by the Pats, but its crying over spilled milk, the guy looks like a decent player when healthy and has been saddled with crap coaching since he got here.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

McVay and his assistant were laughing because they had been wishing upon a star that Strange would last till their pick in the 3rd, which they knew was not gonna happen. So when he went in the 1st, they were laughing at themselves.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

They are in desperate need of starting caliber OT for both sides. I would be happy to see them sign Tryon Smith to start for them at LT next season but given his history I wouldn’t expect him to be available for all 17 regular season games. Beyond that:

Agreed but I am not paying a lot for T Smith - he is old and injured like you note. Hard pass on J Williams. T Brown? J Eluemunor?

• They must draft their LT1 of the future on no later than Day 2 of the draft. I am against using the #3 pick on anyone other than either a QB or MHJ. If they went with MHJ then the QB1 of the future has to be a priority over that LT prospect.

Not a MHJ fan at #3.

• If they resign Onwenu they need to keep him at RG except in a true emergency. He is a very good RG but a mediocre RT. Establish and maintain that position in strength and focus on the other positions.

Agreed

• I am OK with Jake Andrews as the OC2 but he is undersized for OG. It will be interesting to see him this summer after the strength and conditioning program and the new coaching takes effect. I remember being pleasantly surprised by Karras in the same situation so I am hopeful.

I am hopeful too. J Andrews was a top wrestler too which is good for a center.

• Mafe is a guy I see as a career backup. He has good size and some power but lacks quickness and agility. Another one to hope for.

I think it is Mafi. Like him too. Onwenu is not overly mobile.

• I am curious about Wheatley

Agree on Wheatley.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I’m fine rolling with Sow and Mafi at guards.

Agreed. I am fine with J Andrews too. Three good guys plus Strange, D Andrews, and Onwenu can slide inside. Not a significant area of need like offensive tackle. I would not spend FA money on IOL. Burn that cash other places.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I have no issue giving Bill credit for all he did here but just don't crap on my head and expect me to say thanks for the hat. People still defend a guy like Strange who has been an underwhelming pick and then try and hit you with the "You think you know more than Bill?" defense when in fact over the last few years lots of people have called out mistakes in real time. Most people thought the Strange pick was bad at the time he made it. It just makes it even worse that Strange isn't even a good player.

Nobody crapped on your head. You grossly overreacted and now are blaming others for your emotions.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It’s a pattern the Pats seem to have developed over the past decade. Fail to sign a good player to a second contract and then have to fill the self created roster hole through the draft or with a lower priced and usually less talented free agent. Instead of getting better they were just treading water.

It is the same pattern for every team because of the salary cap. Did you see the players the Bills released today? They are still $5M over the cap and have a bunch of holes now.