Strange's situation may affect things this offseason, isn't expected to participate

[203Pat]

The Gruden-Mayock drafts were probably to worst of all time.

It's interesting how Mayock was respected for his insight on players when he was commentating on the drafts, but couldn't seem to pick the right guys when he had to do it for real.

They really were some all time bad drafts. The 2019 draft with three first round picks and they ended up with Clellin Ferrell, Josh Jacobs, and Johnathan Abram. The 2020 draft was basically a complete wash within a year and the 2021 draft they whiffed hard on Alex Leatherwood but did get a couple role players. Other than the one home run with Max Crosby and 5 minutes of Hunter Renfrow Mayock will go down as maybe the worst to ever do it and I didn't even mention the whole Antonio Brown trade.

 

[203Pat]

I have no problem with the decisions made in the 2022 draft regarding Strange. He was not a mystery to them, they had coached him in the senior bowl, his RAS athletic profile was insanely high, and he had no concerning injury history. They moved down from 21 to 27, picking up 2 picks, and felt he may be grabbed by someone else before their next shot in round 2. He's performed very well when healthy.

It was solid drafting - sometimes things don't turn out great even when you make the right moves, and he's still got 3 more years with us. Hopefully he's ready to go this year, he's a talented guy, reminds me of Stephen Neal.

Anyone who doesn't have an issue with how we ended up with Strange has to be a major Bill apologist. Bill created the need for a starting guard by screwing up the situation with any one of the three of: Thuney, Mason, and Karras. Then he drafted a guy in the first when we have generally always been able to find guards in the middle rounds (see all three above).

You also gloss over moving down from 21 to 27 when guys at positions of need were all taken in that gap. We traded with the Chiefs who took an all pro corner. The Cowboys ended up taking a second team all pro tackle in Tyler Smith and the Jets took a pro bowl linebacker in Jermaine Johnson. The Jags also took a promising LB in Devin Lloyd, the Ravens got a pro bowl center, and the Packers took a disruptive defensive tackle who looked like he started to emerge last season. That is two all pros, two pro bowlers, and two promising players we decided to pass on so Bill could reach on a position that was only a need because of his own ineptitude.

Cole Strange also hasn't performed "very well" when healthy. He has been benched multiple times in his very short career. He also gets manhandled by some of the league's better interior linemen like Deforest Buckner and Quinnen Williams. It was far from "solid drafting" and at this rate there is no chance that he is here 3 more years as that would mean they would be picking up his 5th year option for around $20 million. Calling him anything in the same stratosphere to Stephen Neal is a complete insult to Stephen Neal.

 

[DaBruinz]

Sow was a LG in college before playing mostly RG last year. Re-sign Onwenu, add a stop gap OT, draft an OT highly, sign a "utility" guy for the OL who can be a top reserve/spot starter. Ideally, with Strange out, you could go:

LT: FA stop gap
LG: Sow
C: D. Andrews
RG: Onwenu
RT: draft pick

If the draft pick isn't ready, you can explore different combos, with Strange out. Can put Jake Andrews in at LG, Sow back to RG, Onwenu out to RT. Or maybe it's the utility guy playing LG instead of Andrews in that same shuffle. Or maybe the utility guy just steps in for the draft pick at LT. Or maybe the utility guy plays RG and Onwenu goes back to RT.

Three is no Stop gap LT in Free Agency. If you're adding someone in the draft, you add the LT.
The Pats have McDermott and Jake Andrews who have played guard.

The Pats need to grab 2 OTs in the Draft. A LT and a Swing Tackle.

McDermott and Steuber can both play inside at OG. What Wheatley Jr brings remains to be seen. Calvin Anderson and Verderian Lowe should be LTs only. The Lowe experiment at RT should never have been done. Lowe hadn't played RT in 6 years because he's on of those guys who can't do the switch.. They realized that in College and in Minnesota..

 

[Ian]

Mafi say hello oh bwoy square peg in a round hole.

Yeah, that’s not the case. He was a fifth round pick with a lot of upside and while his rookie campaign wasn’t perfect, he’s only going to get stronger. Keep in mind they also had no offensive line coach last season, which absolutely hindered his development.

But if you saw his film at UCLA, he was a beast and based on how he looked as a rookie, he needs some help with his fundamentals. Hopefully, with this new staff, he’ll get it.

Here’s a look at his college highlights:

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm with you on Onwenu being a RG long-term. I think you have to be flexible about this upcoming year though. I think it's a great Plan A to sign a guy like Smith for LT for a year and then draft a plug and play RT without using the #3 pick. But maybe Smith and the other OTs get deals beyond what we want to pay for stop gaps/mid tier players. Maybe the draft doesn't yield the plug and play RT you wanted.

Longer term you want Onwenu at RG where he truly excels, but in the short term I can envision re-signing him and leaving him at RT for a year to manage in the interim.

Why would you sign SMITH when he's not been healthy in 8 years and has missed 37 games over the last 4? This just doesn't make sense to me

 

[DaBruinz]

I forget. I remember there being a flurry right before they picked and then someone saying later on that they also had another player in mind, I believe it was a defensive guy.

I went back and dug this out and I had written the following after it happened, which has the players who went right before him:

"The thought process might have been that Belichick and New England may have had another player in mind who came off the board following their trade back from 21 to 29. There was a significant run on highly-touted defensive players from that point, with Quay Walker, Kaiir Elam, Jermaine Johnson II, Devin Lloyd and Devonte Wyatt each coming off the board following multiple trade-ups by the Packers, Bills, Jets and Jaguars respectively, after they each jumped back up into the fray.

"That could have potentially changed the Patriots’ plans, causing them to switch gears and turn their attention elsewhere."

I believe someone also said well after the draft Strange was high on their board, and after their first preference came off the board, they caught wind of a couple of other teams who were interested in potentially targeting Strange in round two. So they decided it wasn't worth the risk to move back a few spots and given that it was only three spots shy of round two, they felt there was value in the fifth-year option if he panned out the way they believed he might.

 

[DaBruinz]

I forget. I remember there being a flurry right before they picked and then someone saying later on that they also had another player in mind, I believe it was a defensive guy.

I went back and dug this out and I had written the following after it happened, which has the players who went right before him:

"The thought process might have been that Belichick and New England may have had another player in mind who came off the board following their trade back from 21 to 29. There was a significant run on highly-touted defensive players from that point, with Quay Walker, Kaiir Elam, Jermaine Johnson II, Devin Lloyd and Devonte Wyatt each coming off the board following multiple trade-ups by the Packers, Bills, Jets and Jaguars respectively, after they each jumped back up into the fray.

"That could have potentially changed the Patriots’ plans, causing them to switch gears and turn their attention elsewhere."

I believe someone also said well after the draft Strange was high on their board, and after their first preference came off the board, they caught wind of a couple of other teams who were interested in potentially targeting Strange in round two. So they decided it wasn't worth the risk to move back a few spots and given that it was only three spots shy of round two, they felt there was value in the fifth-year option if he panned out the way they believed he might.

Seattle, Minnesota, Tampa, and the Titans were all said to be looking at Strange at the end of the 1st round beginning of the Second. So he was going to be gone.

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Certain people on here run their mouths like they know better on a regular basis. But they keep forgetting that they're nobodies who have accomplished nothing in regards to football while taking shots at the GOAT as if their s**t don't stink. It's hilarious and shows that they aren't worth listening to.

 

[Ian]

Seattle, Minnesota, Tampa, and the Titans were all said to be looking at Strange at the end of the 1st round beginning of the Second. So he was going to be gone.

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Certain people on here run their mouths like they know better on a regular basis. But they keep forgetting that they're nobodies who have accomplished nothing in regards to football while taking shots at the GOAT as if their s**t don't stink. It's hilarious and shows that they aren't worth listening to.

We don't have to go to that extent. None of us are football experts by any means, so I don't think it's fair to go quite that far.

At the same time, celebrating failure (and seemingly rooting for it at times when it comes to certain players) isn't necessarily a good thing, and that does happen here a little too often. I would say that falls on my radar in terms of things I wish there was less of. It's obviously fine for people to vent or whatever, but that would be about the extent of any real issues I have.

Agree with you on the fact Strange was probably going to get taken early in round two. People are upset because of where he went, but had he gone in the second round, I don't think people would be as annoyed and when we're talking the difference of 4-5 spots, especially knowing he wasn't their first choice in round one, it just sort of is what it is given how it played out. They gambled by trading back and lost, and seemingly weren't willing to gamble again and ended up taking him earlier than they likely wanted to.

 

[Scotty]

I just hope he can get over his latest injury set back as I think he could at least be a capable swing OL. Hopefully the new OLine coaches can get him on the right track.

 

[borg]

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Where are teams drafting average guards these days?
29th.........or 104th ?

“And we wasted our time watching him thinking he’d be at 104 maybe,” McVay said.

McVay

DaBruinz

 

[DaBruinz]

We don't have to go to that extent. None of us are football experts by any means, so I don't think it's fair to go quite that far.

At the same time, celebrating failure (and seemingly rooting for it at times when it comes to certain players) isn't necessarily a good thing, and that does happen here a little too often. I would say that falls on my radar in terms of things I wish there was less of. It's obviously fine for people to vent or whatever, but that would be about the extent of any real issues I have.

Agree with you on the fact Strange was probably going to get taken early in round two. People are upset because of where he went, but had he gone in the second round, I don't think people would be as annoyed and when we're talking the difference of 4-5 spots, especially knowing he wasn't their first choice in round one, it just sort of is what it is given how it played out. They gambled by trading back and lost, and seemingly weren't willing to gamble again and ended uptaking him earlier than they likely wanted to.

I went that far specifically because of some of the comments that are being made about Belichick. They're ridiculous and the people making them are just being completely disrespectful and acting like they are God's Gift to football. Which we both know is laughable.

 

[203Pat]

Seattle, Minnesota, Tampa, and the Titans were all said to be looking at Strange at the end of the 1st round beginning of the Second. So he was going to be gone.

McVey's statement was more indicative of their faulting scouting than it was of the Patriots.

Certain people on here run their mouths like they know better on a regular basis. But they keep forgetting that they're nobodies who have accomplished nothing in regards to football while taking shots at the GOAT as if their s**t don't stink. It's hilarious and shows that they aren't worth listening to.

And if they took him so what? Draft Dylan Parham, Sean Rhyan, Spencer Burford, or Cordell Volson a few rounds later and get similar production.

The GOAT is out of a job not because he can't coach but because he can't draft anymore. It is clear as day and Cole Strange is one of the many players Bill missed on.

 

[Ian]

Where are teams drafting average guards these days?
29th.........or 104th ?

“And we wasted our time watching him thinking he’d be at 104 maybe,” McVay said.

McVay

DaBruinz

If you go back and look at the Rams drafts, like every NFL team, they haven’t exactly killed on every pick. Again, I get he made the comment, but for every guy a team feels was over drafted, there is a guy they either missed out on or took higher than they probably wanted to as well. He also likely didn’t take into consideration the context that Strange clearly wasn’t the guy they were initially targeting.

 

[Ian]

I went that far specifically because of some of the comments that are being made about Belichick. They're ridiculous and the people making them are just being completely disrespectful and acting like they are God's Gift to football. Which we both know is laughable.

The whole dancing on the grave after 20+ years is frustrating. Not saying Bill was infallible and that his drafting wasn’t a point of frustration, but I don’t think people need to continue killing a guy who helped turn this franchise back into a respectable contender deserves a lot of what’s gone down.

He’s gone, and it was time for a change. It just makes a little more sense to try and focus on what they’ll do going forward.

 

[203Pat]

The whole dancing on the grave after 20+ years is frustrating. Not saying Bill was infallible and that his drafting wasn’t a point of frustration, but I don’t think people need to continue killing a guy who helped turn this franchise back into a respectable contender deserves a lot of what’s gone down.

He’s gone, and it was time for a change. It just makes a little more sense to try and focus on what they’ll do going forward.

I have no issue giving Bill credit for all he did here but just don't crap on my head and expect me to say thanks for the hat. People still defend a guy like Strange who has been an underwhelming pick and then try and hit you with the "You think you know more than Bill?" defense when in fact over the last few years lots of people have called out mistakes in real time. Most people thought the Strange pick was bad at the time he made it. It just makes it even worse that Strange isn't even a good player.

 

[Ian]

I have no issue giving Bill credit for all he did here but just don't crap on my head and expect me to say thanks for the hat. People still defend a guy like Strange who has been an underwhelming pick and then try and hit you with the "You think you know more than Bill?" defense when in fact over the last few years lots of people have called out mistakes in real time. Most people thought the Strange pick was bad at the time he made it. It just makes it even worse that Strange isn't even a good player.

Yes, but people act like they went into round one and he was their guy. They just misjudged the room and clearly didn’t anticipate all the teams jumping back in and taking all those guys at the end of the round (who obviously came back in believing the Patriots would possibly take their guy).

Strange should have been a day two pick (I looked again last night and that’s where he was rated). Again, they just took him 4-5 slots earlier than he probably would have gone.

He’s been a decent player and their run production is better with him in there vs when he’s been out. I certainly wouldn’t say he’s an All-Pro by any means and the injury certainly set him back last season. But he’s been a starting caliber guard that they at least (prior to the knee injury) didn’t need to worry about. Again, had he gone in the second round, I doubt people would be as annoyed.

Like others, I would have preferred one of the defensive guys they missed out on by trading back, and I also agree with the premise someone made about the fact Bill created the need. Although, after watching Shaq Mason last year in the postseason…I don’t know if moving on from him was the worst thing, either.

 

[203Pat]

Yes, but people act like they went into round one and he was their guy. They just misjudged the room and clearly didn’t anticipate all the teams jumping back in and taking all those guys at the end of the round (who obviously came back in believing the Patriots would possibly take their guy).

Strange should have been a day two pick (I looked again last night and that’s where he was rated). Again, they just took him 4-5 slots earlier than he probably would have gone.

He’s been a decent player and their run production is better with him in there vs when he’s been out. I certainly wouldn’t say he’s an All-Pro by any means and the injury certainly set him back last season. But he’s been a starting caliber guard that they at least (prior to the knee injury) didn’t need to worry about. Again, had he gone in the second round, I doubt people would be as annoyed.

Again, I would have preferred one of the defensive guys they missed out on by trading back, and I also agree with the premise someone made about the fact Bill created the need. Although, after watching Shaq Mason last year in the postseason…I don’t know if moving on from him was the worst thing, either.

My thing isn't so much that he was a reach it's just that on a team with so many holes we picked a position that there isn't much drop off between the best guard in the draft and the 5th best guard in the draft. Why not stay at 21 and take the future all pro corner, or future all pro tackle, or prob bowl linebacker? I am not saying guard isn't an important position but it is a position that priority resources generally do not need to be used.

I also think the floor for a first round pick should be better than barely starting caliber (which it can be debated he is borderline due to how many times he's been benched). I still think they wanted Zion Johnson and figured he would be there for them and when he wasn't they traded back and got the next guy. Wouldn't have loved Johnson at 21 either but at least we would have gotten a good player.

I get that Bill is gone but he's been gone for 5 minutes and left the roster a mess so it is hard not to discuss how we got here. There are plenty of threads that thanked him for all he did but when there's a thread specifically dedicated to a player who is one of his more (recent) controversial first round picks it is inevitable Bill's drafting is highlighted.

 

[skinnydog]

He wasn’t their first choice. They got jumped, which blew up their first plan. So rather than trade back a handful of spots (and with rumors of a couple teams having potential interest in him early in round two), and risk losing their next choice (him) they just decided to take him where they did with the intent of being able to use the fifth-year option, which also allowed them to avoid a potential repeat of the Mankins situation.

So they panicked and overdrafted Strange. Some players are so good you overdraft them. Strange was never that sort of player. They could have easily drafter Christian Watson there (not great but much better than Thornton) then Luke Goedeke in the second where they drafted Thornton. Goedeke was projected as a guard and played guard for Tampa in his first year then was their starting R tackle this past year. Hmm, maybe the Pats could use a player like that. Really, this all started when they failed to sign Thuney in 2021. Instead of paying him they’ve been trying to lock down the L Guard position ever since.

 

[skinnydog]

Yes, but people act like they went into round one and he was their guy. They just misjudged the room and clearly didn’t anticipate all the teams jumping back in and taking all those guys at the end of the round (who obviously came back in believing the Patriots would possibly take their guy).

Strange should have been a day two pick (I looked again last night and that’s where he was rated). Again, they just took him 4-5 slots earlier than he probably would have gone.

He’s been a decent player and their run production is better with him in there vs when he’s been out. I certainly wouldn’t say he’s an All-Pro by any means and the injury certainly set him back last season. But he’s been a starting caliber guard that they at least (prior to the knee injury) didn’t need to worry about. Again, had he gone in the second round, I doubt people would be as annoyed.

Again, I would have preferred one of the defensive guys they missed out on by trading back, and I also agree with the premise someone made about the fact Bill created the need. Although, after watching Shaq Mason last year in the postseason…I don’t know if moving on from him was the worst thing, either.

The next guard taken was by Tampa in the mid to late second round. Luke Goedeke. And if they missed on Strange so what. He’s just not special.

 

[Ian]

My thing isn't so much that he was a reach it's just that on a team with so many holes we picked a position that there isn't much drop off between the best guard in the draft and the 5th best guard in the draft. Why not stay at 21 and take the future all pro corner, or future all pro tackle, or prob bowl linebacker? I am not saying guard isn't an important position but it is a position that priority resources generally do not need to be used.

Agree, they gambled and lost there.

I also think the floor for a first round pick should be better than barely starting caliber (which it can be debated he is borderline due to how many times he's been benched).

I agree, but you're still looking at him as a first-round guy when he was in essence an early 2nd rounder. Again, I think if they could have traded back knowing they could get him early in round two, they probably would have. I feel like the issue was they likely didn't want to miss out again on one of the first few guys on their board after getting jumped, so they just went ahead and took him a few slots earlier with the benefit of that fifth-year option if he does eventually rebound and develop.

But I'm with you - with hindsight being what it is they may have been better off sitting at 21 and taking one of those defensive guys. Although, I'm not at home so I forget the picks they picked up when they traded back and who else it yielded.