Story on Patriots' documentary brings recent dysfunction to light

[TheRainMaker]

Didn't Reid get fired in Philly?

If you can't see the connection, I can't help you.

It was a terrible move and he was yanked quickly after two years. Reid was on burnout with assistants continually leaving and the talent draining.

From Wikipedia:

“Castillo became the defensive coordinator for the Eagles following the firing of Sean McDermott on February 2, 2011.[4] The hiring was met with surprise by players, fans, and members of the media primarily because Castillo had not coached the defensive side of the ball since he was at Kingsville in 1989.[5][6] Castillo was fired on October 16, 2012.[7]

 

[0818NePa]

So before a Superbowl Victory lol

No. After a SB loss. Coming after 3 wild years that showed BB was more AN more out of control.

 

[signbabybrady]

andy reid made his ol coach dc when he was in philly. so...no.

I think Raheem Morris worked on both sides of the ball too. I think he worked on the offensive side during some of his time in ATL when they went to a SB.

 

[0818NePa]

Flores saved Brady from himself because going to Miami would've been a disaster for him.

Regardless, if you fire Belichick after the 2017 loss to the Eagles, you don't win a Super Bowl next year.

Why would anyone trade a Super Bowl victory only in order to keep Brady (on a rapidly aging team, as we saw in 2019)? With any other coach, the Patriots don't win in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 & 2023. At least we got one in 2019.

Personally, I'd rather win Super Bowls than sing Kumbaya.

You did not know in 2017 what wolud have happened in 2018. And you do not know what would have happened in 2018 and the years after if we fired BB after philly loss. What we do know is the miserable state of the franchise now.

 

[signbabybrady]

If we accept what the BB haters believe as fact then I must say that BB the GM doesn't get enough credit for the work he did up until 2013 or so. At this point he was 3-2 in SBs including 18-1. And then he completely forgets how to draft and becomes an angry old man who can't relate to anyone and everyone hates him. But the work he put in up until 2013 was apparently so great that despite the level of dysfunction that is purported they could still go 3-1 in SBs in the following years including arguably the greatest play in SB history and the greatest comeback in SB history.

 

[signbabybrady]

You did not know in 2017 what wolud have happened in 2018. And you do not know what would have happened in 2018 and the years after if we fired BB after philly loss. What we do know is the miserable state of the franchise now.

So your basically risking the SB53 victory on the hopes that whoever we turned it over to could still win 53 and that they would be able to retain Brady and win again. Based on how good Tom is this is not improbable but it is still a leap. Oh and at that time Josh was basically written as the heir like Mayo now so be sure to take that into account.

 

[archstanton543]

If we accept what the BB haters believe as fact then I must say that BB the GM doesn't get enough credit for the work he did up until 2013 or so. At this point he was 3-2 in SBs including 18-1. And then he completely forgets how to draft and becomes an angry old man who can't relate to anyone and everyone hates him. But the work he put in up until 2013 was apparently so great that despite the level of dysfunction that is purported they could still go 3-1 in SBs in the following years including arguably the greatest play in SB history and the greatest comeback in SB history.

BB didn't change. The players did. The players are mostly going to be kids in their early-to-mid 20's with some guys in their 30's. As Gen Xers aged out of the NFL and younger and younger Millennials and Zoomers came in, his coaching style didn't play. Couple that with Tom Brady and other Super Bowl winning players retired or leaving and you have the dysfunction we saw the last few years of BB's tenure here.

 

[Ian]

Butler addressed it several times. Basically he admits to not having the best week at practice.

BB's been the one to never speak of it and gets *****y when asked about it.

I don’t buy that at all. That leads to a player being inactive, not left on the sideline. I’ve said it before but I’ll never forgive him for that. I would have understood benching him even for the half, but costing himself and his team a ring shouldn’t have been a sacrifice he was willing to make. It remains inexcusable, especially in a game where Brady was on fire and they needed one stop to get the win. Unreal.

But yeah, that still gets me fired up and I don’t buy the “not having the best week of practice” thing and I’m hopeful someday we’ll learn what really happened.

 

[Steve102]

If we accept what the BB haters believe as fact then I must say that BB the GM doesn't get enough credit for the work he did up until 2013 or so. At this point he was 3-2 in SBs including 18-1. And then he completely forgets how to draft and becomes an angry old man who can't relate to anyone and everyone hates him. But the work he put in up until 2013 was apparently so great that despite the level of dysfunction that is purported they could still go 3-1 in SBs in the following years including arguably the greatest play in SB history and the greatest comeback in SB history.

The Seattle SB win is him coaching up the D, with the other coaches, and then the players made plays when needed. The Atl win was Tom and Josh McD cooking. Simply Brady's finest moment. Refusing to lose, picking up all 53 and making it happen.

BB didn't change. The players did. The players are mostly going to be kids in their early-to-mid 20's with some guys in their 30's. As Gen Xers aged out of the NFL and younger and younger Millennials and Zoomers came in, his coaching style didn't play. Couple that with Tom Brady and other Super Bowl winning players retired or leaving and you have the dysfunction we saw the last few years of BB's tenure here.

I think as Bill got older and achieved more success, he grew bolder in the fact that his way was THE way. He didn't evolve at all, became stuck in his ways, and was emboldened to believing he was right. For all he achieved, it could have been even more so.

 

[Steve102]

I don’t buy that at all. That leads to a player being inactive, not left on the sideline. I’ve said it before but I’ll never forgive him for that. I would have understood benching him even for the half, but costing himself and his team a ring shouldn’t have been a sacrifice he was willing to make. It remains inexcusable, especially in a game where Brady was on fire and they needed one stop to get the win. Unreal.

But yeah, that still gets me fired up and I don’t buy the “not having the best week of practice” thing and I’m hopeful someday we’ll learn what really happened.

Bill's gonna die with it. It's his single biggest eff up, and he knows it. I think his unbending ways cost them 2 championships, and not the two Giant losses. The footgate thing with Wes... we will never know... but the Butler benching cost them that one. The more I look at it, the more I think Brady held his nose and talked everyone into running it back one more year to get the 6th. Certainly talked Gronk off the ledge. I think that Butler thing damaged the locker room and Bill's relationships with the team leaders way more than anyone is letting on. Bill certainly is not going to admit it, as the general never tells the enlisted men when he screws up.

 

[Clonamery]

Bill's gonna die with it. It's his single biggest eff up, and he knows it. I think his unbending ways cost them 2 championships, and not the two Giant losses. The footgate thing with Wes... we will never know... but the Butler benching cost them that one. The more I look at it, the more I think Brady held his nose and talked everyone into running it back one more year to get the 6th. Certainly talked Gronk off the ledge. I think that Butler thing damaged the locker room and Bill's relationships with the team leaders way more than anyone is letting on. Bill certainly is not going to admit it, as the general never tells the enlisted men when he screws up.

Gronk has no issue with BB. At all.

 

[Triumph]

Fantasy Football

 

[Steve102]

Gronk has no issue with BB. At all.

Sure. Now.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

The article is paywalled. Can Anybody get some more info?

 

[Clonamery]

Sure. Now.

But that would mean something to BB. Imagine, Gronk the mature one.

 

[upstater1]

You did not know in 2017 what wolud have happened in 2018. And you do not know what would have happened in 2018 and the years after if we fired BB after philly loss. What we do know is the miserable state of the franchise now.

I know what DID happen.

They won the Super Bowl.

You can't trade that for anything. Sorry.

They also held the top 11 offense in NFL history to 3 points. That doesn't happen without Bill. No way.

If you think it would've happened, you're delusional.

 

[upstater1]

The Seattle SB win is him coaching up the D, with the other coaches, and then the players made plays when needed. The Atl win was Tom and Josh McD cooking. Simply Brady's finest moment. Refusing to lose, picking up all 53 and making it happen.

I think as Bill got older and achieved more success, he grew bolder in the fact that his way was THE way. He didn't evolve at all, became stuck in his ways, and was emboldened to believing he was right. For all he achieved, it could have been even more so.

It all worked well together. Not only Tom and McD.

The defense gave up 21 points (and only 14 after drives that didn't end with a turnover).

Atlanta was one of the top scoring offenses in NFL history.

After the first drive of the second half, the defense pitched a shutout.

 

[upstater1]

Bill's gonna die with it. It's his single biggest eff up, and he knows it. I think his unbending ways cost them 2 championships, and not the two Giant losses. The footgate thing with Wes... we will never know... but the Butler benching cost them that one. The more I look at it, the more I think Brady held his nose and talked everyone into running it back one more year to get the 6th. Certainly talked Gronk off the ledge. I think that Butler thing damaged the locker room and Bill's relationships with the team leaders way more than anyone is letting on. Bill certainly is not going to admit it, as the general never tells the enlisted men when he screws up.

You guys can't account for how holding high standards helps a team win. No one will ever know what would have happened all these years if Bill had lower standards. If players see others not living up to their responsibilities, then what happens over the span of time?

Do they win 4? Do they beat the Eagles but lose to the Panthers and Seahawks? Is Butler even someone who becomes a household name if Browner wasn't on top of his Ps and Qs in practice when he blew up the pick? These are things that will never be known.

Players are different. They have much lower standards. They don't have the same responsibilities that coaches do. And apparently they forgive a lot. I mean, Brady took in Antonio Brown to live with his family, and this was after Brown had his thugs physically threaten the children of a woman he defrauded.

 

[Boomer B]

You guys can't account for how holding high standards helps a team win. No one will ever know what would have happened all these years if Bill had lower standards. If players see others not living up to their responsibilities, then what happens over the span of time?

Do they 4? Do they beat the Eagles but lose to the Panthers and Seahawks? Is Butler even someone who becomes a household name if Browner wasn't on top of his Ps and Qs in practice when he blew up the pick? These are things that will never be known.

Players are different. They have much lower standards. They don't have the same responsibilities that coaches do. And apparently they forgive a lot. I mean, Brady took in Antonio Brown to live with his family, and this was after Brown had his thugs physically threaten the children of a woman he defrauded.

What does his “high standards” even mean? You can have high standards in terms of preparation, effort, etc… and still not be an *******.

And to say players have much “lower standards” is BS. Sure, some do, but did Brady? The guy basically dedicated everything to maintaining his body, film study, being prepared, etc… let’s not act like he had “lower standards”. Guys like Gronk and Edelman who spent more time in the operating room then anyone ever should. Did they have “lower standards”?

 

[upstater1]

What does his “high standards” even mean? You can have high standards in terms of preparation, effort, etc… and still not be an *******.

And to say players have much “lower standards” is BS. Sure, some do, but did Brady? The guy basically dedicated everything to maintaining his body, film study, being prepared, etc… let’s not act like he had “lower standards”. Guys like Gronk and Edelman who spent more time in the operating room then anyone ever should. Did they have “lower standards”?

You con't know the answer to your first question, I don't know either. We can only assume one standard was violated. Preparation, effort, being there. etc.

It's not BS. Brady has shown he's willing to forgive a lot in order to win. That doesn't mean he has low standards for himself or for teammates when it comes to the playing field. But when it comes to AB, he had low standards for Brown's conduct off the field, and indeed, the 2 parts of it, football/non-football, came together in an ugly way, especially as AB mocked the guy and made insinuations about his wife.

I 100% supported the decision to get rid of AB, but I bet you Brady did not.