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Still No # 1WR

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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50-yard-line

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Definitely a clear uptick in stats with tannehill vs Mariota. Averaged 2 for 45 in 6 games in 6 games with mariota, 4 for 75 the remaining 10 games with tannehill. I would contribute to both the qb switch and brown becoming more integrated in the offense as the season went on.
That last point is key - integrated into the offense. When the season was kaput last year, I wish McD had designed plays to throw the ball to Harry as the primary receiver 15 times a game. Make him step forward and show what he could or couldn't do, then and there.
 

Ras-IR Dowling

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
That last point is key - integrated into the offense. When the season was kaput last year, I wish McD had designed plays to throw the ball to Harry as the primary receiver 15 times a game. Make him step forward and show what he could or couldn't do, then and there.
This season is put up or shut up time for Harry. Definitely would like to see more 50/50 balls on deeper routes for him. Take more shots down the field and less of those reverse runs.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
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Depends on the QB.

AJ Brown with Mariota did nothing, was he lacking talent?

Did the talent fairy arrive in the night to sprinkle magic dust over him right before Tannehill took over?
Mariota was Brown's QB for the first 6 games of Brown's career.


Targets: 23
Catches: 14
Catch %: 60.9%
YPC: 19.5
YPT: 11.8
TDs: 2

Per games: 3.8/2.3/45.5


Once Tannehill took over, Brown's catch percentage for the rest of the season was 62.3, his targets jumped up to 6.1 pg his receptions jumped to 3.8, his yards per catch went to 20.47, and his yards per target went to 12.79. In other words, as his rookie year went on, he got more balls thrown his way, and he showed some, but not overwhelming, statistical improvement.

Nothing there is outside the normal realm of rookie player development, and nothing there indicates that it was Tannehill making some massive difference for Brown.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
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This season is put up or shut up time for Harry. Definitely would like to see more 50/50 balls on deeper routes for him. Take more shots down the field and less of those reverse runs.
While I agree, it will difficult for the 4th WR to be active.

As an aside, I expect Harry to be on the roster, although obviously, someone might beat him out. it is irrelevant that he wasn't a good draft choice. The open question is whether he is best choice as #4 WR. What do we expect from our #4 WR?
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Mariota was Brown's QB for the first 6 games of Brown's career.

Targets: 23
Catches: 14
Catch %: 60.9%
YPC: 19.5
YPT: 11.8
TDs: 2
Per games: 3.8/2.3/45.5

Once Tannehill took over, Brown's catch percentage for the rest of the season was 62.3, his targets jumped up to 6.1 pg his receptions jumped to 3.8, his yards per catch went to 20.47, and his yards per target went to 12.79. In other words, as his rookie year went on, he got more balls thrown his way, and he showed some, but not overwhelming, statistical improvement.

Nothing there is outside the normal realm of rookie player development, and nothing there indicates that it was Tannehill making some massive difference for Brown.
Sure, nothing different other than the Titans being 2-4 at the time, them averaging almost sixty fewer passing yards per game, 70% completions vs 59% with Mariota, 29 PPG scoring with Tannehill vs 16 PPG scoring with Mariota... yeah, that's nothing.

AJ Brown

With Tannehill
: 778 yards (78 yards per game), 20.4 yards per reception, 62% catch rate on almost twice as many targets, 6 TD’s (.6 per game)

With Mariota: 273 yards (46 yards per game), 19.5 yards per reception, 60% catch rate on half as many targets, 2 TD’s (.3 per game)

I don't know why they switched QB's at all?
 
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Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
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Sure, nothing different other than the Titans being 2-4 at the time, them averaging almost sixty fewer passing yards per game, 70% completions vs 59% with Mariota, 29 PPG scoring with Tannehill vs 16 PPG scoring with Mariota... yeah, that's nothing.

AJ Brown

With Tannehill
: 778 yards (78 yards per game), 20.4 yards per reception, 62% catch rate on almost twice as many targets, 6 TD’s (.6 per game)

With Mariota: 273 yards (46 yards per game), 19.5 yards per reception, 60% catch rate on half as many targets, 2 TD’s (.3 per game)

I don't know why they switched QB's at all?

So you're now equating wins specifically with an unsurprising and unspectacular uptick in a rookie WRs play? Because that's what your original point was. Your original position was that Brown did nothing with Mariota, and implied that it was Tannehill behind a big jump in play.


Depends on the QB.

AJ Brown with Mariota did nothing, was he lacking talent?

Did the talent fairy arrive in the night to sprinkle magic dust over him right before Tannehill took over?

Still No # 1WR

The data runs counter to such a position. It was not that Tannehill replacing Mariota let to a better overall Titans team, which would be a separate issue.

1620773005275.png
 
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captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Agreed, with the additions of Smith and Henry and this receiver group, I don't see why they will need a true #1, especially if Mac is for real


PLAYER#POSHTWTAGEEXPCOLLEGE
Nelson AgholorWR6-0198277USC
Kendrick BourneWR6-1203255Eastern Washington
N'Keal Harry15WR6-4225233Arizona State
Jakobi Meyers16WR6-2200243North Carolina State
Tre NixonWR6-1185N/ARUCF
Gunner Olszewski80WR6-0190243Bemidji State
Matthew Slater18WR6-02053514UCLA
Devin Smith13WR6-1199295Ohio State
Kristian Wilkerson17WR6-1214241Southeast Missouri State
Isaiah Zuber19WR6-0190241Mississippi State

You do realize, don't you, that Matty Slater is as much a WR as you & I are?
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Agreed, nobody was complaining about Harry when he was drafted. This wasn't a "Jordan Richards" pick where everyone was scratching their heads when he was drafted.

Nobody was complaining because we all knew that, even as defending champions, we still really needed top-75 WR help and so had hoped that Billy had learned his lessons from the Hanging Chad Jackson, Aaron Dropson & to a lesser extent Malcolm Mitchell debacles...If you asked people in the draft forum at the time, many might have responded with AJ Brown, and some with Deebo Samuel, as their favorite available WR at #32, though Harry would've certainly been in the next group that included DK Metcalf, Parris Campbell, Terry McLaurin & Andy Isabella...Still doesn't excuse Billy & Little Nicky for taking the wrong dude.
 

PatsWSB47

Pro Bowl Player
I mock everyone? Stop projecting, I mock those who dismiss the idea of "TEAM" and judge players in a vacuum.

QB's get credit for playing QB well, there's a difference between good and bad, they're also beholden to O-Line and team around them. Cam had one of the best O-Lines in football last season, receivers were wide open and he either didn't see them or threw the ball in the dirt.

Tom Brady didn't make the Buc's defense amazing, they were amazing on their own and played better once the offense started running the ball and stopped hanging them out to dry by consistently putting them back on the field.

Conversely when Ryan Tannehill was a Dolphin and Adam Gaze his coach he was one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL, he was roundly blamed as the reason they were bad and I caught hell for suggesting he was a "good not great" QB on a crappy team... flash forward to the Titans and the magic fairy sprinkled her dust on him and he was one of the most accurate and productive QB's once he had a great O-Line in front of him, good play calling and time to throw to his weapons.

QB's pass to receivers... gravity works in one direction as well. Blaming a hammer for crappy carpentry is what we're seeing here. WR's can only catch the balls thrown to them, if Mac Jones is amazing or Stidham has an a-ha moment, these WR's will very likely look good it won't be because they were bad before and good now.
Bruce Arians said it took one guy to show them how them how to win but what does he know? Virtually every sports analyst except Rob Parker said the same thing but what do they know? I guess none of them have visited Patsfans where Wozzi teaches class. Maybe they should. Then they'd learn a thing or two.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
So you're now equating wins specifically with an unsurprising and unspectacular uptick in a rookie WRs play? Because that's what your original point was. Your original position was that Brown did nothing with Mariota, and implied that it was Tannehill behind a big jump in play.




Still No # 1WR

The data runs counter to such a position. It was not that Tannehill replacing Mariota let to a better overall Titans team, which would be a separate issue.

View attachment 32872
Tannehill was substantially better but it wasn’t Tannehill... okay.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Bruce Arians said it took one guy to show them how them how to win but what does he know? Virtually every sports analyst except Rob Parker said the same thing but what do they know? I guess none of them have visited Patsfans where Wozzi teaches class. Maybe they should. Then they'd learn a thing or two.
Bruce Arians loves hyperbole and beer, Tom didn’t make make a single tackle on defense... but let’s pretend.
 

PatsFanInVa

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Bruce Arians loves hyperbole and beer, Tom didn’t make make a single tackle on defense... but let’s pretend.
My husband cannot both evade the tackles and make the tackles. --Gisele
Also he still cannot throw the ball and catch it, what do I look like, Nick Foles' wife? -- Also Gisele, and not it is NOT too soon.
 

PatsWSB47

Pro Bowl Player
Bruce Arians loves hyperbole and beer, Tom didn’t make make a single tackle on defense... but let’s pretend
Some players inspire better play from the whole team. This is not a new concept. Hoards of anylists and coaches have talked about it for many years naming several players. If you think that doesnt happen then you are kind of alone.
 
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VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
My husband cannot both evade the tackles and make the tackles. --Gisele
Also he still cannot throw the ball and catch it, what do I look like, Nick Foles' wife? -- Also Gisele, and not it is NOT too soon.

Context dude. At the time Wes Welker made a huge drop in the playoffs which pretty much cost the Pats the game. The ball hit him in the hands and he DROPPED it. Gisele might not be a football genius but she had a totally valid point.

And those ragging on Brady for 2019 are out of touch. He had ZERO weapons. Worst receivers and tight end group in the NFL. He proved he hadn't lost his skills the next year by winning the Superbowl with the Bucs. It's OVER. Just give up and stop trying to rewrite history.

Now the Patriots are moving on with Cam Newton and Mac Jones. Hopefully the Pats offense will be better in 2021 thanks to the numerous weapons BB added in free agency - TWO Tight Ends and TWO Wide Receivers, admitting that he FAILED at drafting weapons and failed at 'grocery shopping' over recent years. But at least he moved on and opened up the pocketbook to FIX those glaring issues.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Some players inspire better play from the whole team. This is not a new concept. Hoards of anylists and coaches have talked about it for many years naming several players. If you think that doesnt happen then you are kind of alone.
Brady inspires his teammates, he doesn't make tackles, make blocks etc... by your estimation Brady should have 21 Super Bowl rings.

It's absurd, the difference between Brady and Brees is negligible, the difference between the teams explains the disparity in championships.
 

Tony2046

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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Brady inspires his teammates, he doesn't make tackles, make blocks etc... by your estimation Brady should have 21 Super Bowl rings.

It's absurd, the difference between Brady and Brees is negligible, the difference between the teams explains the disparity in championships.


No No No. I disagree.

Brady sustained drives which allowed his defense to rest and wore out the other team's defense.

The difference between Brady and Brees is not "negligible" it's lightyears.
 

Wozzy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
No No No. I disagree.

Brady sustained drives which allowed his defense to rest and wore out the other team's defense.

The difference between Brady and Brees is not "negligible" it's lightyears.
Brees is the all time leader in passing yards, but the difference between Brady’s seven rings and his one is Brady has some magical superpower that wills his defense to play better... it wasn’t that BB is one of the greatest defensive minds in pro football history? Got it... let me join the fanclub.

 

PatsWSB47

Pro Bowl Player
Brees is the all time leader in passing yards, but the difference between Brady’s seven rings and his one is Brady has some magical superpower that wills his defense to play better... it wasn’t that BB is one of the greatest defensive minds in pro football history? Got it... let me join the fanclub.

Know one says magical powers. Dont be absurd
 

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