Still No # 1WR

[skinnydog]

Bill has said, and the numbers actually prove it out, that WR is the toughest position to draft and has the most busts. Yes there are misses at every position but there are more misses, league wide at wr.

Yes, but the pats seem to be the worst at a tough position to evaluate. I don't care how hard it is to evaluatecollege WRs in a vacuum, the Pats are among the worst at evaluating this position.

 

[skinnydog]

Ahhhhh like the Patriots run an offense that like other teams don't, so like, ya know, like the Pats expect like different things from like their WR's.

Like just because other teams get like WR's with like stats doesn't like mean it will translate to like, ya know, Foxboro.

What does Ocho Cinco and Joey Galloway say about that?

How about, Welker, Amendola, Hogan, Moss, Lafell, Patton?

On the other hand, you are a resident expert concerning "hard to grasp", so if this is expert insight, we'll take it at face value.

Not sure what is complicated about this. And what do the Pats expecty out of their WRs that other teams don't? And do they expect the same things out of their WRs with Cam under center that they expected with Brady there? The pats always had Brady to throw to these receivers. Cinco and Galloway were done, spent when the came to the Pats. As for the others (except Moss) a great QB (Brady) elevated them. manning did it too for a couple of years with Welker. Moss actually was basically done like Cinco and Galloway and workng his way out of the league and coming to the pats and working with Brady rejuvenated his career for a short period of time.

What we watched for 20 years on offense and you what call "Foxboro" may very well have been mostly Brady. With Brady gone and no elite QB replacing him, they likely need better WRs, not the same WRs.

 

[moosekill]

Yes, but the pats seem to be the worst at a tough position to evaluate. I don't care how hard it is to evaluatecollege WRs in a vacuum, the Pats are among the worst at evaluating this position.

The Patriots have put minimal draft capital into this position. It has been discussed at great length. The best wr drafting teams have invested much more capital into that position. The Patriots simply haven’t

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I don't get the obsession with that mystical WR1.

Given how we spent on offense in FA it seems pretty likely that we will run the majority of snaps out of 2 TE sets and most likely 12 personnel. And while the WR room lacks a superstar it is well balanced with players that cover all kinds of roles.

What exactly is the value of either investing valuable (early) draft picks or a substantial amount of cap space into a player that will be a decoy the vast majority of times ?

I'm really glad we didn't burn a high draft pick on WR. The roster is solid, 12 starting caliber guys for 11 spots. We're totally fine with 3 good WRs and 2 good TEs. This will also prevent low IQ minds from going to nonsensical 4WR sets. At least over half our snaps should be out of 12 personnel.

 

[Ollie]

Yes, but the pats seem to be the worst at a tough position to evaluate. I don't care how hard it is to evaluatecollege WRs in a vacuum, the Pats are among the worst at evaluating this position.

Yeah their track record isn't great but how many of the picks were considered potential busts at the time they were drafted? Harry was considered a good pick and a good prospect by most at the time. His college highlights look amazing. He looks like a broken man now by comparison.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Not sure what is complicated about this. And what do the Pats expecty out of their WRs that other teams don't? And do they expect the same things out of their WRs with Cam under center that they expected with Brady there? The pats always had Brady to throw to these receivers. Cinco and Galloway were done, spent when the came to the Pats. As for the others (except Moss) a great QB (Brady) elevated them. manning did it too for a couple of years with Welker. Moss actually was basically done like Cinco and Galloway and workng his way out of the league and coming to the pats and working with Brady rejuvenated his career for a short period of time.

What we watched for 20 years on offense and you what call "Foxboro" may very well have been mostly Brady. With Brady gone and no elite QB replacing him, they likely need better WRs, not the same WRs.

....and maybe not.

 

[upstater]

The Patriots have put minimal draft capital into this position. It has been discussed at great length. The best wr drafting teams have invested much more capital into that position. The Patriots simply haven’t

This is absolutely true. And we saw it this year again. 10 picks going into the draft, great need at the WR position, and we only selected a 7th rounder. Now we may not have liked any of the guys for value when they came up at our pick but other teams do expend resources and they do whiff. But they find WRs. The Patriots are finding great value at certain positions like DT but that’s really because teams are expending so much on WRs and CBs and so players at DT and RB etc start dropping even though they rate much higher than the WRs going off the board

 

[Wozzy]

We have a good to great WR room, they need a QB... pray for Mac Jones.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yeah their track record isn't great but how many of the picks were considered potential busts at the time they were drafted? Harry was considered a good pick and a good prospect by most at the time. His college highlights look amazing. He looks like a broken man now by comparison.

Even when he was drafted multiple scouting reports said he had issues getting open, route running, and separating from DBs. This shouldn't be a surprise. People talked themselves into that maybe he can win jump balls. Turns out he can't do anything. So glad the draft war room is different and improved now.

.

 

[skinnydog]

Yeah their track record isn't great but how many of the picks were considered potential busts at the time they were drafted? Harry was considered a good pick and a good prospect by most at the time. His college highlights look amazing. He looks like a broken man now by comparison.

But there was a lot of discussion on this board a while back that BB overruled his scouts and favored the opinion of Harry's head coach who BB knows instead of that of his scouts who favored other WRs over Harry. If true, that's on BB.

 

[skinnydog]

....and maybe not.

Yes, they might not need better WRs, if they rely more on the running game. Still, at some point an NFL team has to pass to win. See the Ravens the last couple of years in the playoffs.

 

[Ollie]

Even when he was drafted multiple scouting reports said he had issues getting open, route running, and separating from DBs. This shouldn't be a surprise. People talked themselves into that maybe he can win jump balls. Turns out he can't do anything. So glad the draft war room is different and improved now.

.

Most had him as a first rounder and one or two even suggested he might be the best wr in the class. I also read the issues regarding separation but i'm only saying the pick wasn't ridiculed at the time, far from it. In hindsight if you struggle to get separation in college then it's hardly going to get better in the nfl

 

[ErniesPinkStripes]

We have a good to great WR room, they need a QB... pray for Mac Jones.

Agreed, with the additions of Smith and Henry and this receiver group, I don't see why they will need a true #1, especially if Mac is for real

PLAYER	#	POS	HT	WT	AGE	EXP	COLLEGE
Nelson Agholor		WR	6-0	198	27	7	USC
Kendrick Bourne		WR	6-1	203	25	5	Eastern Washington
N'Keal Harry	15	WR	6-4	225	23	3	Arizona State
Jakobi Meyers	16	WR	6-2	200	24	3	North Carolina State
Tre Nixon		WR	6-1	185	N/A	R	UCF
Gunner Olszewski	80	WR	6-0	190	24	3	Bemidji State
Matthew Slater	18	WR	6-0	205	35	14	UCLA
Devin Smith	13	WR	6-1	199	29	5	Ohio State
Kristian Wilkerson	17	WR	6-1	214	24	1	Southeast Missouri State
Isaiah Zuber	19	WR	6-0	190	24	1	Mississippi State

 

[Deus Irae]

We have a good to great WR room, they need a QB... pray for Mac Jones.

Probably not

 

[Wozzy]

Probably not

Depends on the QB.

AJ Brown with Mariota did nothing, was he lacking talent?

Did the talent fairy arrive in the night to sprinkle magic dust over him right before Tannehill took over?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Depends on the QB.

AJ Brown with Mariota did nothing, was he lacking talent?

Did the talent fairy arrive in the night to sprinkle magic dust over him right before Tannehill took over?

AJ Brown did nothing? Lol he was amazing his entire career

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Depends on the QB.

AJ Brown with Mariota did nothing, was he lacking talent?

Did the talent fairy arrive in the night to sprinkle magic dust over him right before Tannehill took over?

So let me get this straight...

You mock everyone for saying the quarterback is supreme, and you laugh at the idea that a quarterback and his "magic fairy dust" makes everyone else better.

Then you mock everyone for saying a wide receiver is good on his own, reverting to that same "magic fairy dust" take but this time in exactly the opposite way since you're arguing a wide receiver is only as good as the quarterback?

Man, the pretzel twisting logic you use to defend all things Bill Belichick is so embarassing. Bill will cut Harry this offseason regardless of who the quarterback is, but you'll be too busy coming up with a god awful take on the next subject.

 

[Wozzy]

AJ Brown did nothing? Lol he was amazing his entire career

Sure... so was Jonnu Smith right?

Marcus Mariota in six starts: 59% passing, 1179 yards, 172 yards per game, 7 TD's, 2 INT's
Ryan Tannehill ten starts: 70% passing, 2598 yards, 229 yards per game, 22 TD's, 5 INT's

Why did they switch QB's again?

 

[Wozzy]

So let me get this straight...

You mock everyone for saying the quarterback is supreme, and you laugh at the idea that a quarterback and his "magic fairy dust" makes everyone else better.

Then you mock everyone for saying a wide receiver is good on his own, reverting to that same "magic fairy dust" take but this time in exactly the opposite way since you're arguing a wide receiver is only as good as the quarterback?

Man, the pretzel twisting logic you use to defend all things Bill Belichick is so embarassing. Bill will cut Harry this offseason regardless of who the quarterback is, but you'll be too busy coming up with a god awful take on the next subject.

I mock everyone? Stop projecting, I mock those who dismiss the idea of "TEAM" and judge players in a vacuum.

QB's get credit for playing QB well, there's a difference between good and bad, they're also beholden to O-Line and team around them. Cam had one of the best O-Lines in football last season, receivers were wide open and he either didn't see them or threw the ball in the dirt.

Tom Brady didn't make the Buc's defense amazing, they were amazing on their own and played better once the offense started running the ball and stopped hanging them out to dry by consistently putting them back on the field.

Conversely when Ryan Tannehill was a Dolphin and Adam Gaze his coach he was one of the most sacked QB's in the NFL, he was roundly blamed as the reason they were bad and I caught hell for suggesting he was a "good not great" QB on a crappy team... flash forward to the Titans and the magic fairy sprinkled her dust on him and he was one of the most accurate and productive QB's once he had a great O-Line in front of him, good play calling and time to throw to his weapons.

QB's pass to receivers... gravity works in one direction as well. Blaming a hammer for crappy carpentry is what we're seeing here. WR's can only catch the balls thrown to them, if Mac Jones is amazing or Stidham has an a-ha moment, these WR's will very likely look good it won't be because they were bad before and good now.

 

[ashley]

Harry was considered a good pick and a good prospect by most at the time. His college highlights look amazing. He looks like a broken man now by comparison.

Agreed, nobody was complaining about Harry when he was drafted. This wasn't a "Jordan Richards" pick where everyone was scratching their heads when he was drafted.