Still Have Not Heard It Yet

[Chris Stevenson]

I'm fine with Brady doing his job in the end and handing the defense the lead.

In Super Bowl XLII:

1. Asante dropped what was an easy INT.
2. Defense allowed what was essentially a lob pass over the middle because of what was essentially a blown coverage.
3. Defense checked into an all out blitz on the Giants' final score.

In Super Bowl XLVI:

1. Defense allows Eli to complete 30 of 40 passes.
2. Defense allows the Giants to dominate T.O.P., thus taking away valuable possessions from the offense.
3. Defense allows the Giants to march down the field after being handed the game, by Brady and the offense, with the lead.

None of that was on the offense. And Brady handed them the lead in spite of being injured (in the case of Super Bowl XLII) and constantly under pressure up the A and B gaps (in both cases). So yeah, he did enough. The defense failed the team on both occasions.

Still awaiting your source on that being the reason that JAG was drafted.

the safety, brady’s awful int on first down to start the 4th, and of course a weak throw to welker, all contributed to the top issue. Not to mention, the offense was better than the d and the d clearly outplayed the offense.

pats d would have allowed 13 points if not for brady being asleep

 

[Kontradiction]

the safety, brady’s awful int on first down to start the 4th, and of course a weak throw to welker, all contributed to the top issue. Not to mention, the offense was better than the d and the d clearly outplayed the offense.

pats d would have allowed 13 points if not for brady being asleep

Brady was getting hit on almost the third step of his drop back and many plays. The safety was ugly, but also iffy. The team, not surprisingly, found themselves in a tough game with a top caliber contender. And this was with Brady's top target in the passing game relegated to merely being a "****ing decoy". It happens. As for the defense outplaying the offense? They allowed the Giants to chew up twice the amount of the T.O.P. in a game which, as you even admit, the offense could have used more possessions. Even still, as has been pointed out to you, they were given the game with the lead and tasked with protecting it. They couldn't. Result was a loss. That's on the defense, not the offense.

Source on that being the reason why JAG was drafted? Or are we just ready to admit that's your opinion and you were merely making a (poor) attempt to pass it off as fact?

 

[Richard Camembert]

Also WRT the OP, of all people Michael Irvin is aware of this and he’s rooting for the Eagles. Said only the ‘boys and Pats have won 3 of 4, and if the Pats do it again that’d wipe the ‘boys out of the record books.

Sorry to tread on your lawn, sir, I’ll get back off now.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Brady was getting hit on almost the third step of his drop back and many plays. The safety was ugly, but also iffy. The team, not surprisingly, found themselves in a tough game with a top caliber contender. And this was with Brady's top target in the passing game relegated to merely being a "****ing decoy". It happens. As for the defense outplaying the offense? They allowed the Giants to chew up twice the amount of the T.O.P. in a game which, as you even admit, the offense could have used more possessions. Even still, as has been pointed out to you, they were given the game with the lead and tasked with protecting it. They couldn't. Result was a loss. That's on the defense, not the offense.

Source on that being the reason why JAG was drafted? Or are we just ready to admit that's your opinion and you were merely making a (poor) attempt to pass it off as fact?

I am in no way passing it off as fact. I just feel brady played has much better in postseasons since jimmyg was drafted as opposed to his deer in the headlights postseasons from 2007-2012.

I also know how competitive brady is and that bb met with jimmy every single day, something he had never done with any other draft pick for back up qb.

It is called deducing.

Get over it. Brady is human, was mediocre, and has clearly rebounded and gotten his head out of his ass. You seem to think he always brings his A game and i do not believe that.

I am not changing my analysis to appease you. No sb team really wins the game with inferior qb play in this era.

 

[meatface]

has anyone complained about millennial's wanting a free space?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

has anyone complained about millennial's wanting a free space?

Yeah. A Millennial’s parents.

 

[Kontradiction]

I am in no way passing it off as fact. I just feel brady played has much better in postseasons since jimmyg was drafted as opposed to his deer in the headlights postseasons from 2007-2012.

That's an interesting take on it. It's a wrong take and you're back peddling. But interesting nonetheless. Let's revisit the original quote...

Hint: bb drafted garoppolo to get brady to snap put of his postseason funk, and it worked.

This is you absolutely passing it off as fact. There's absolutely no indication whatsoever that this was the reason why Garoppolo was drafted. You could have made a better argument that the reason was twofold: 1) the Patriots needed a back-up QB for a few more years on a rookie salary and 2) the Patriots wanted to draft a guy in case Brady's play began to tail off.

If your reasoning was correct, Belichick wouldn't have scoffed at the question of putting JAG in over Brady after the KC debacle. He laughed it off.

I also know how competitive brady is and that bb met with jimmy every single day, something he had never done with any other draft pick for back up qb.

It is called deducing.

Source on the bolded?

Get over it. Brady is human, was mediocre, and has clearly rebounded and gotten his head out of his ass. You seem to think he always brings his A game and i do not believe that.

I never said he "always brings his A game". That's you attributing something to me in order to make my argument easier to attack. There's a word for that. Perhaps someone could help me out with what that word is?

What I said was Brady did enough in both circumstances to win the games. In both circumstances, the defense was handed the lead and asked to protect said lead. In both circumstances, the defense fell apart and allowed the back-breaking drives that resulted in seven points to win the contest. In the latter contest, Super Bowl 46, the defense allowed the Giants to chew up 10 seconds shy of a quarter more of play when the offense could have used the possessions. They also allowed Eli to complete 30 out of 40 passing attempts and could not get off the field to give the offense the ball with better field position. That you believe that those facts along with the fact that they allowed a scoring drive after being given the lead that started at the Giants' own 12 yard line is good defense is baffling.

But I don't think you believe that. You seem to be smarter than that. On the other hand, I think you've been holding on to some deeply seeded beliefs for so long now and that you're going to continue holding onto those beliefs. Evidence be damned.

I am not changing my analysis to appease you. No sb team really wins the game with inferior qb play in this era.

You shouldn't change your analysis to appease me. You should change it because it's an embarrassingly bad take.

 

[Ross12]

Sounds like he was just trying to make a joke that might have flown over your head.

I don’t know if I’ve ever felt more appropriate clicking “Winner.” This was quite an exchange to witness.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

That's an interesting take on it. It's a wrong take and you're back peddling.

I really don't think I am backing up AND selling anything at all.

How do you like my Elijah technique with cute editing and minimal passive aggressive response?

 

[Kontradiction]

I really don't think I am backing up AND selling anything at all.

How do you like my Elijah technique with cute editing and minimal passive aggressive response?

If it works for you...

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If it works for you...

As far as the source on BB meeting with Garropolo every single day, I think it was Zo. I was driving back from the SD game on Halloween with a mini van full of sealed vinyl and had on sports radio on 10.30 and 10.31, returning home. I was in VA when I heard it. It was someone on 98,5, that I know.

I am not making it up.

Once I heard that, I knew BB not only loved Jimmy, but he absolutely did intend to make him the heir apparent. It makes sense. BB always tries to do what is best for the team and is always thinking ahead.

I am not passing off my opinion as a fact. IN MY OPINION, BB saw what I saw with Brady's horrendous flaws in postseasons which helped us lose games, and he was doing what he should have done and do what is right for the team. If Brady is running around telling people he can play until "45", which is a dumb thing to say in the first place, and Brady is seen waffling through postseason games, still playing into his bad habits, staring down binkies, not using the run game, maybe audibling into it where need be, mayube distracted with other things like Uggs, TB12, Giselle, his kids, etc, etc, etc, BB still used a 2nd rd pick on a QB when he really didn't need to go so high for a QB in 2014.

Did you watch Brady's footwork in the failed postseasons? He'd stand there like a statue or duck ghost tacklers. It was embarrassing at times. I saw it. I know what is on my tv screen, dude.

Since BB drafted JimmyG, Brady has actually used a run game more, used less shotgun, moves his feet in the pocket and actually started running a bit more when he needs to in order to move the sticks. He was doing NONE of that from 2007-2012 in the postseason.

Maybe you're not as smart as you think you are here and can maybe learn from others?

 

[sb1]

In SB46 Brady didn’t have his best game but he’s been plenty worse. The defense was trash during the season - theres a good reason why they beat zero winning teams until the AFCCG- and they were also lousy in the Super Bowl and ultimately cost them the game.

The only reason why the game was close is the Giants weren’t much better.

Any of the Pats recent Super Bowl defenses since 2014 would shut out that Giants team.

 

[patriot1136]

Why would Michael Irvin want the Eagles to win? Didnt the Eagles injure him and essentially end his career?

 

[sb1]

Why would Michael Irvin want the Eagles to win? Didnt the Eagles injure him and essentially end his career?

He said he wanted to see a new team win instead of the Patriots winning yet again.

Perfectly understandable. Most of the country feels that way. I would too if I wasn’t a Pats fan.

 

[Kontradiction]

As far as the source on BB meeting with Garropolo every single day, I think it was Zo. I was driving back from the SD game on Halloween with a mini van full of sealed vinyl and had on sports radio on 10.30 and 10.31, returning home.

I am not making it up. Once I heard that, I knew BB not only loved Jimmy, but he absolutely did intend to make him the heir apparent. It makes sense.

I haven't been able to find that anywhere. And I looked hard. Not that I don't believe that it happened, but I don't think BB made it a specific point to go out of his way and include Jimmy. I think it would be more likely that Jimmy simply wanted to be in those meetings.

I am not passing off my opinion as a fact. IN MY OPINION, BB saw what I saw with Brady's horrendous flaws in postseasons which helped us lose games, and he was doing what he should have done and do what is right for the team. If Brady is running around telling people he can play until "45", which is a dumb thing to say in the first place, and Brady is seen waffling through postseason games, still playing into his bad habits, staring down binkies, not using the run game, maybe audibling into it where need be, mayube distracted with other things like Uggs, TB12, Giselle, his kids, etc, etc, etc, BB still used a 2nd rd pick on a QB when he really didn't need to go so high for a QB in 2014.

Sure you did. You passed it off as fact in your very first post on the topic to me. You then avoided me asking you to source it twice before back peddling and merely saying that it was your opinion.

Did you watch Brady's footwork in the failed postseason? He'd stand there like a statue or duck ghost tacklers. It was embarrassing at times.

Examples? Please cite the games and use YouTube videos and source the times in those videos so I can look.

I ask because I don't see anything different in Brady's footwork than what I saw from 2009-2013. The difference between now and then is that the defense has been rebuilt and, starting in 2014, the Patriots began to move away from the quick strike passing game and began to bring in guys like Lafell, Mitchell, Hogan, and now Cooks that can stretch the field vertically and keep defenses away from playing our offense as if it was in the Red Zone. It should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, you included, that more postseason games have resulted in more W's from 2014-current than from 2009-2013.

Since BB drafted JimmyG, Brady has actually used a run game more, used less shotgun, moves his feet in the pocket and actually started running a bit more when he needs to in order to move the sticks. He was doing NONE of that from 2007-2012 in the postseason.

2014 Divisional Round vs. Ravens - 50 pass attempts. Result: Win
2014 AFCCG vs. Colts - 35 pass attempts. Result: Win.
Super Bowl 49 - 50 pass attempts. Result: Win.
2015 Divisional Round vs. Chiefs - 42 pass attempts. Result: Win.
2015 AFCCG @ Broncos - 56 pass attempts. Result: Loss.
2016 Divisional Round vs. Texans - 38 pass attempts. Result: Win.
2016 AFCCG vs. Steelers - 42 pass attempts. Result: Win.
Super Bowl 51 - 62 pass attempts. Result: Win.

So, since 2014 (since that's the time frame you're talking about), there have only been two instances where Brady has attempted less than 40 passing attempts. In one of those two occasions, the Pats were playing a team with a terrible run defense. In both occasions, Brady still had more passing attempts than the offense had running attempts. You were saying about "using the run game more"? As for your last sentence, Brady was running from 2007-2012. Off the top of my head, I can think of two such occasions and they were both against Baltimore in the AFCCG. 2011 and then 2012 during the infamous cleats-up slide. So nothing that you're saying here is really making any bit of sense. As for his footwork? I've already asked you to cite that.

Maybe you're not as smart as you think you are here and can maybe learn from others?

LOL. You've spouted three different things in this thread that I've asked you to source now. Twice before this post and once in this post. Thus far, you've cited nothing. So, if you think you're "teaching me" anything, you may want to reevaluate that perspective.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

In SB46 Brady didn’t have his best game but he’s been plenty worse. The defense was trash during the season - theres a good reason why they beat zero winning teams until the AFCCG- and they were also lousy in the Super Bowl and ultimately cost them the game.

The only reason why the game was close is the Giants weren’t much better.

Any of the Pats recent Super Bowl defenses since 2014 would shut out that Giants team.

the offense was trash more so than the d..the d was super young and off the lockout, was way behind the offense in terms of development, sure, but they had balls and guts, something brady and the offense did not have. i am just glad that era is over because something was off with brady.

the d played better than the offense in the postseason. that is an indisputable fact. sterling moore was actually outstanding late in the year and saved fhe title game....brady was atrocious sleep walking through the 2011 afc title game like he was in 2007.

i don’t know what it was, but clearly something was amiss..personal problems off the field, etc. no idea, but i know what happened on my tv screen

shame on that d in sb 46 for causing two fumbles and them not bouncing in the right direction while allowing 13 measly points, waiting for the GOAT to ice it.

shame on their good effort! lmao

why can’t people just accept the truth and move on?

 

[Kontradiction]

the offense was trash more so than the d..the d was super young and off the lockout, was way behind the offense in terms of development, sure, but they had balls and guts, something brady and the offense did not have. i am just glad that era is over because something was off with brady.

the d played better than the offense in the postseason. that is an indisputable fact. sterling moore was actually outstanding late in the year and saved fhe title game....brady was atrocious sleep walking through the 2011 afc title game like he was in 2007.

i don’t know what it was, but clearly something was amiss..personal problems off the field, etc. no idea, but i know what happened on my tv screen

shame on that d in sb 46 for causing two fumbles and them not bouncing in the right direction while allowing 13 measly points, waiting for the GOAT to ice it.

shame on their good effort! lmao

why can’t people just accept the truth and move on?

That was pretty much the worst defense that Belichick had fielded in his time here. He knew that which is why he made some wholesale changes on that side of the ball the following year. That unit lost that game. Of that, there is no doubt. I can see that you're beginning to realize that as well which is why you're beginning to essentially make things up in an effort to stick to a point of view that you brought into this thread.

 

[sb1]

As for the defense outplaying the offense? They allowed the Giants to chew up twice the amount of the T.O.P. in a game which, as you even admit, the offense could have used more possessions. Even still, as has been pointed out to you, they were given the game with the lead and tasked with protecting it. They couldn't. Result was a loss. That's on the defense, not the offense.

The 2011 Pats allowed the 32nd ranked - that would be the league worst - Giants rush offense to get 114 yards on 28 carries and 7 first downs via rush and of course the game winning TD to Bradshaw.

The defense was just awful in that game.

 

[sb1]

the offense was trash more so than the d..the d was super young and off the lockout, was way behind the offense in terms of development, sure, but they had balls and guts, something brady and the offense did not have. i am just glad that era is over because something was off with brady.

the d played better than the offense in the postseason. that is an indisputable fact. sterling moore was actually outstanding late in the year and saved fhe title game....brady was atrocious sleep walking through the 2011 afc title game like he was in 2007.

i don’t know what it was, but clearly something was amiss..personal problems off the field, etc. no idea, but i know what happened on my tv screen

shame on that d in sb 46 for causing two fumbles and them not bouncing in the right direction while allowing 13 measly points, waiting for the GOAT to ice it.

shame on their good effort! lmao

why can’t people just accept the truth and move on?

Don't be fooled by that. The defense stunk in that game. Like I said the only reason why that game was close was the Giants weren't much better than the Patriots that year. They were perhaps the worst team to ever win a Super Bowl.

The Patriots last two Super Bowl opponents would put up a 50 burger on that defense without breaking a sweat. I mean, just look at the perennial pro bowlers like Vince Young, Dan Orlovsky, Chad Henne, Matt Flynn, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Rex Grossman take that defense to school that year. They were horrible. I'm sure they did put up a good effort but effort only goes so far.

Brady did not have his best game and was much worse in the AFCCG but let's not pretend Brady singlehandedly cost them that football game. It was on the defense.

 

[Kontradiction]

Don't be fooled by that. The defense stunk in that game. Like I said the only reason why that game was close was the Giants weren't much better than the Patriots that year. They were perhaps the worst team to ever win a Super Bowl.

The Patriots last two Super Bowl opponents would put up a 50 burger on that defense without breaking a sweat. I mean, just look at the perennial pro bowlers like Vince Young, Dan Orlovsky, Chad Henne, Matt Flynn, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Rex Grossman take that defense to school that year. They were horrible. I'm sure they did put up a good effort but effort only goes so far.

Brady did not have his best game and was much worse in the AFCCG but let's not pretend Brady singlehandedly cost them that football game. It was on the defense.

Can't fault the quarterback when he hands the defensive unit the keys with the lead while telling them that all that unit has to do is not allow a touchdown... and then that unit allows an 88 yard drive for a touchdown while leaving the offense with very little time to respond.