Steelers 1st TD - why was flag picked up?

[Biffins]

Anyone have a view on this?

Why Steelers' 1st touchdown vs. Patriots shouldn't have counted

I mean the refs saw this. Then picked up the flag? Why would they do that. What's the exact rule. Even Romo said on the commentary that refs see ineligible receivers but might pick up the flag. How's the rule to be interpreted?

 

[upstater1]

Anyone have a view on this?

Why Steelers' 1st touchdown vs. Patriots shouldn't have counted

I mean the refs saw this. Then picked up the flag? Why would they do that. What's the exact rule. Even Romo said on the commentary that refs see ineligible receivers but might pick up the flag. How's the rule to be interpreted?

It wasn't ineligible receivers.

It was the fact the Steelers had 5 lineman, 5 receivers, 1 RB, and Ben out there. 12 men on the field. The guy wasn't even running off the field, the extra guy was lined up and played the play. No wonder Rogers came free.

I suspect what happened is that one ref counted 12, another said "No, it was 11."

But there were definitely 12 players out there.

 

[turkeyneck]

All 22 will be interesting.

 

[Biffins]

It wasn't ineligible receivers.

It was the fact the Steelers had 5 lineman, 5 receivers, 1 RB, and Ben out there. 12 men on the field. The guy wasn't even running off the field, the extra guy was lined up and played the play. No wonder Rogers came free.

I suspect what happened is that one ref counted 12, another said "No, it was 11."

But there were definitely 12 players out there.

But then how come when play was reviewed, and all scoring plays are reviewed, this was not called. Unless 12 man cannot be called on review.

 

[Biffins]

It wasn't ineligible receivers.

It was the fact the Steelers had 5 lineman, 5 receivers, 1 RB, and Ben out there. 12 men on the field. The guy wasn't even running off the field, the extra guy was lined up and played the play. No wonder Rogers came free.

I suspect what happened is that one ref counted 12, another said "No, it was 11."

But there were definitely 12 players out there.

BTW it WAS "ineligible receivers" flag since the ref picked it up and said "There was no flag for "ineligible receivers" and result of the play is a TD". He didn't say "No flag for "12 men on field"" which is what you're saying.

 

[upstater1]

BTW it WAS "ineligible receivers" flag since the ref picked it up and said "There was no flag for "ineligible receivers" and result of the play is a TD". He didn't say "No flag for "12 men on field"" which is what you're saying.

Ah, well, then I was wrong. I went to nfl.com and reviewed the play. I thought 12 men was the call.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I'm curious about this one as well. Should be interesting to review in the re-watch thread.

@Tony2046 @long distance @luuked @NE-VT

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

**** happens including the refs. I saw penalties that Pitt got away with and I grimaced but took it when I saw Patriots get away with some.
Better question is 'how long can the Patriots get by with KVN being out'?. The Patriots don't have anything close, not within a galaxy, to a playmaker LB unless we call Chung a LB. Hard to believe this would be said in preseason but we desperately are missing KVN and his ability to get to runners and cover the short-mid middle etc. And the lack in this position is gonna get us all F'n killed!

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

**** happens including the refs. I saw penalties that Pitt got away with and I grimaced but took it when I saw Patriots get away with some.
Better question is 'how long can the Patriots get by with KVN being out'?. The Patriots don't have anything close, not within a galaxy, to a playmaker LB unless we call Chung a LB. Hard to believe this would be said in preseason but we desperately are missing KVN and his ability to get to runners and cover the short-mid middle etc. And the lack in this position is gonna get us all F'n killed!

Kvn will definitely help the coverage underneath. And please for the love of god target some coverage lbs next offseason.

 

[Ring 6]

Anyone have a clip of the play?

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Kvn will definitely help the coverage underneath. And please for the love of god target some coverage lbs next offseason.

Yep. Though I tell ya, High and KVN would have made a nice LB tandem to compliment a nickel of DM, Chung, Gillmore, Butler, Harmon/Rowe. I suspect a passing D consisting of them would have made Miami look Miami and Steelers wouldn't have broken 17 if not 13.
But beyond these two (and, ahem, I'm not putting KVN in Canton -- at least not yet) the Patriots LB depth falls off a Nepalese mountain high cliff.

Kudos to Chung's toughness for holding up sometimes playing, essentially, as an undersized LB.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Yep. Though I tell ya, High and KVN would have made a nice LB tandem to compliment a nickel of DM, Chung, Gillmore, Butler, Harmon/Rowe. I suspect a passing D consisting of them would have made Miami look Miami and Steelers wouldn't have broken 17 if not 13.
But beyond these two (and, ahem, I'm not putting KVN in Canton -- at least not yet) the Patriots LB depth falls off a Nepalese mountain high cliff.

Kudos to Chung's toughness for holding up sometimes playing, essentially, as an undersized LB.

I really want roquan smith but I just can’t see BB jumping into the top 10 to grab him. Either through FA or the draft need to bolster the LBs and find branch’s replacement at DT (maybe a healthy valentine is that guy)

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I really want roquan smith but I just can’t see BB jumping into the top 10 to grab him. Either through FA or the draft need to bolster the LBs and find branch’s replacement at DT (maybe a healthy valentine is that guy)

Damn Jimmy G is killing our trade up capital. The traitorous rat bastard....

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Damn Jimmy G is killing our trade up capital. The traitorous rat bastard....

I’m interested in next weeks Sf Jax game that’s a huge step up in competition from what Jimmy’s been seeing

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I’m interested in next weeks Sf Jax game that’s a huge step up in competition from what Jimmy’s been seeing

Agreed. All of a sudden this could be a game. Jimmy would be doing us a hell of favor beating the Jags and give us a one game Bye cushion.

No offense to JimmyG but the drive for the game winning FG (his game numbers were great and I only saw the last 2 mins of the game) was pretty much pitch and catch. For the Titans that was Tuna's infamous 'non competitive coverage' line. The 9er receivers were so open maybe the Titans coaches thought they were winning by 22 instead of 2 and went with a full Prevent D?

 

[PatsBoy12]

Yep. Though I tell ya, High and KVN would have made a nice LB tandem to compliment a nickel of DM, Chung, Gillmore, Butler, Harmon/Rowe. I suspect a passing D consisting of them would have made Miami look Miami and Steelers wouldn't have broken 17 if not 13.
But beyond these two (and, ahem, I'm not putting KVN in Canton -- at least not yet) the Patriots LB depth falls off a Nepalese mountain high cliff.

Kudos to Chung's toughness for holding up sometimes playing, essentially, as an undersized LB.

I found myself calling High's name on numerous plays that I KNOW would have played out differently had he been on the field. Those crossing routes are a thing that it seems more teams are using against the Pats . . . receivers and backs are running freely and High would not allow that. Even KVN has decapitated guys trying to come through that area on the crossing routes.

Elandon Roberts is severely a one-trick pony. He's an All-Pro when asked to hit that A-Gap. He sucks at everything else. Harris' mind is still intact, but he's just so old and slow out there now. Asking those two to play the passing game is dangerous. But they're all we have at the moment.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I found myself calling High's name on numerous plays that I KNOW would have played out differently had he been on the field. Those crossing routes are a thing that it seems more teams are using against the Pats . . . receivers and backs are running freely and High would not allow that. Even KVN has decapitated guys trying to come through that area on the crossing routes.

Elandon Roberts is severely a one-trick pony. He's an All-Pro when asked to hit that A-Gap. He sucks at everything else. Harris' mind is still intact, but he's just so old and slow out there now. Asking those two to play the passing game is dangerous. But they're all we have at the moment.

Pretty good sum up of Roberts and Harris. The good news for Roberts is he is 24 years old. He still has plenty of potential to grow from an NFL perspective. But right now what he is being asked to do he simply can't perform at a sufficiently satisfactory level (that lack of production is hurting the Patriots ability to get off the field). Hopefully every game tape is allowing him to study and practice. As well if he isn't asked to be the "guy" at the LB position (KVN returns) it will allow him a bit more focused role -- something he may have better success at.

I don't know how many snaps Harris had and I did see him make two tackles (one a good tackle) but no doubt this isn't Harris of yesteryear. I saw one play he was way too easily taken out of one play and he just looked slow -- not in that 'primary job as run stuffing interior LB' slow but just plain slow. In a 4-3 where there's two speedier LBs to each side of him maybe he can sufficiently be that interior run stuffing LB. But right now if the play isn't coming right at him/pretty close to him it just doesn't look as if he has the wheels to get to the ball.

 

[luuked]

Elandon Roberts is severely a one-trick pony. He's an All-Pro when asked to hit that A-Gap. He sucks at everything else. Harris' mind is still intact, but he's just so old and slow out there now. Asking those two to play the passing game is dangerous. But they're all we have at the moment.

The issue is that teams know that and bait him into hitting gaps hard to take himself out of the play or just block him away from the action. And that is nothing new. He has been doing this since he arrived but with more tape available on him it is not a secret anymore and every team tries to exploit this.

I will say the same thing as I said last season.. I just dont see how he survives cuts next year except in a very situational role.

 

[luuked]

It wasn't ineligible receivers.

It was the fact the Steelers had 5 lineman, 5 receivers, 1 RB, and Ben out there. 12 men on the field. The guy wasn't even running off the field, the extra guy was lined up and played the play. No wonder Rogers came free.

I suspect what happened is that one ref counted 12, another said "No, it was 11."

But there were definitely 12 players out there.

Where ?

Trust me there is nobody hidden by the overlay of the player I checked.

 

[luuked]

I'm curious about this one as well. Should be interesting to review in the re-watch thread.

@Tony2046 @long distance @luuked @NE-VT

Anyone have a clip of the play?

The flag was definitely ineligible men downfield:



Look at how one of the lineman above the hashmarks is close to be 4 yards up the field at the moment the pass is thrown. I would love to hear how this flag was picked up because it looks clear as day to me:

Article 1: Legal and Illegal Acts.

On a scrimmage play during which a legal forward pass is thrown, an ineligible offensive player, including a T-formation quarterback, is not permitted to move more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the pass has been thrown.

Item 1: Legally Downfield.

An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge:

(a) he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an opponent; or

(b) after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown; or

(c) after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player.

The reason this is a flag is that blocking downfield is only allowed on running plays by design. This is one of the ways defenses can read a run. I cant fault Harris, Harmon or Rowe on this play because they all read run.

Also I dont get why this is not reviewable because this is one of the more black and white rules in the entire game.