Status of the Offensive Line

[AzPatsFan]

I was glad that the Pats brain trust added tackles candidates the OL in the last Draft. There was little talent beyond Fleming and the starters Solder and Cannon. Now the reserves have some developmental talent to work with.
BB has said you draft LOTs; and if they cant cut it there, move them elsewhere on the Line. He stayed true to form.

Both 6'7" Antonio Garcia and 6'8" Connor McDermott have spent several years in college playing the LOT position. Both were once thought of as potential high draft picks. Injuries, and a terrible outing against the eventual #1 overall Draft pick, caused their stars to dim. But both produced in the post season.

The concern then went to the depth at the IOL positions. But there is potential unrecognized talent already there in Ted Karras, and Jamil Douglas, a 4th round pick at G taken by Miami and cut. Chase Farris and Chris Barker offer an outside chance there as well as the addition of potential veteran Brad Fusco. I suspect IOL depth is better than thought.

Losing teams draft exciting skill position players. But winning Teams invest in the personnel on the Lines, where most games are really decided.

 

[mgteich]

I guess that you'll be surprised when 2-4 IOL's are brought in before the season starts.

The concern then went to the depth at the IOL positions. But there is potential unrecognized talent already there in Ted Karras, and Jamil Douglas, a 4th round pick at G taken by Miami and cut. Chase Farris and Chris Barker offer an outside chance there as well as the addition of potential veteran Brad Fusco. I suspect IOL depth is better than thought.

 

[Husse]

Fusco already signed with the 49ers.

 

[supafly]

I was glad that the Pats brain trust added tackles candidates the OL in the last Draft. There was little talent beyond Fleming and the starters Solder and Cannon. Now the reserves have some developmental talent to work with.
BB has said you draft LOTs; and if they cant cut it there, move them elsewhere on the Line. He stayed true to form.

Both 6'7" Antonio Garcia and 6'8" Connor McDermott have spent several years in college playing the LOT position. Both were once thought of as potential high draft picks. Injuries, and a terrible outing against the eventual #1 overall Draft pick, caused their stars to dim. But both produced in the post season.

The concern then went to the depth at the IOL positions. But there is potential unrecognized talent already there in Ted Karras, and Jamil Douglas, a 4th round pick at G taken by Miami and cut. Chase Farris and Chris Barker offer an outside chance there as well as the addition of potential veteran Brad Fusco. I suspect IOL depth is better than thought.

Losing teams draft exciting skill position players. But winning Teams invest in the personnel on the Lines, where most games are really decided.

Good to see the tackle position addressed. I think that made us all pretty happy. I wouldn't be surprised to see Garcia get early reps spelling Cannon at times, and pushing Fleming down the depth chart. If McDermott flashes in training camp and everyone stays healthy, Fleming could be on the outside looking in.

 

[maineman209]

Fleming could be on the outside looking in.

Perhaps. But Fleming has started and played full games for the Pats at every OL position but Center. I'm not saying that he was "great", but at least an adequate one-game stopgap.

He's also played at least as many ST snaps as any other OL (subbing for starters on extra-point and FG attempts), and played 284 snaps in 2016 in a blocking TE role.

Scar usually tries to keep such a "universal sub" type OL on the 53-man at all times.

Scar also usually has a second backup OG/backup Center on the 53-man, and Karras is the current incumbent . He might be replaceable, but probably not by a big OT.

Waddle seems likely to be gone and replaced by Garcia to make the (positionally-balanced) 8 total OL for the 53-man. If McDermott (or Rich) flashes really brightly in OTAs and Camp, they might go up to carrying 9 OL, though that's been difficult to do when they've had 3 QBs on the roster in the past.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I really find it hard to be concerned with the O-Line as long as Scar is at the helm. He proved his worth in the most major way last season . . . for those that maybe still needed some convincing.

 

[Kontradiction]

Depth along the interior is somewhat suspect. I expect the Pats will make at least one veteran move at the guard position.

 

[mgteich]

I really find it hard to be concerned with the O-Line as long as Scar is at the helm. He proved his worth in the most major way last season . . . for those that maybe still needed some convincing.

I agree about the value of Scar.

However, almost equally important last year was the health of the OL.

Lack of depth isn't tested when there is health.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I agree about the value of Scar.

However, almost equally important last year was the health of the OL.

Lack of depth isn't tested when there is health.

Oh, no doubt. Injury is the thing that can change any equation on the field, depth or no depth. So yes, I absolutely agree.

 

[PatsFan2]

We need a capable Back-up Center surprised that we liked nobody at the Position last Draft.

 

[supafly]

Waddle seems likely to be gone and replaced by Garcia to make the (positionally-balanced) 8 total OL for the 53-man. If McDermott (or Rich) flashes really brightly in OTAs and Camp, they might go up to carrying 9 OL, though that's been difficult to do when they've had 3 QBs on the roster in the past.

I've had Waddle's bags packed and sitting by the door for quite sometime now, so I don't even factor his presence into the equation any longer.

Personally, I do think they'll carry 9 OL. I always expect there to be 5 IOL (not that it's necessarily a standard formula), but I wasn't taking into account the fact that Fleming could be seen as an all-position (aside from C) player.

They could have Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Karras/vet, and Fleming as those 5; with Solder, Cannon, Garcia, and McDermott/vet as the 4 OT.

 

[maineman209]

Personally, I do think they'll carry 9 OL.

They may well do so, if they feel that they need to shield McDermott from waivers.

But then, figuring out the rest of the roster becomes a game of whack-a-mole - because of the 3rd QB taking up a spot. Somewhere along the line, some other position/unit is going to get shorted.

 

[stinkypete]

The OL is decent, middle of the pack as of the end of 2016, with potential to move into the top third of the league if the interior guys develop as we hope. What matters is that the depth has been found to prevent the unit from becoming an Achilles heel like it did in 2015. If that OL was healthy, the Patriots would have three-peated.

Clearly, the team has learned its lesson.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We need a capable Back-up Center surprised that we liked nobody at the Position last Draft.

The team thinks Karras is such player

 

[DaBruinz]

I've had Waddle's bags packed and sitting by the door for quite sometime now, so I don't even factor his presence into the equation any longer.

Personally, I do think they'll carry 9 OL. I always expect there to be 5 IOL (not that it's necessarily a standard formula), but I wasn't taking into account the fact that Fleming could be seen as an all-position (aside from C) player.

They could have Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Karras/vet, and Fleming as those 5; with Solder, Cannon, Garcia, and McDermott/vet as the 4 OT.

9 -10 OL has been the common practice for the Pats.. 8 is not the norm for them..
There was a stretch of like 10years where the team used 4 OTs a season. We are only 2 years removed from them using 16 different O-linemen..

 

[maineman209]

We need a capable Back-up Center surprised that we liked nobody at the Position last Draft.

IIRC, Karras reportedly got a fair amount of snaps at Center during 2016 Camp. Also, typically the Pats (Scar) has one of the starting Guards taking at least some snaps at Center to make sure that there's coverage. That may have been Mason this past season.

Chris Barker (6020/300) seems to me likely to have been the primary Center for the in-season scout team. And 2017 UDFA Jason King (6034/303) seems like the type that Scar has converted from OG to backup/scout team Center in the past.

 

[maineman209]

Clearly, the team has learned its lesson.

Perhaps the lesson was "don't allow Scar to retire."

 

[Kontradiction]

Perhaps the lesson was "don't allow Scar to retire."

Or it could be "replace Scar better than we did last time".

 

[AzPatsFan]

Depth along the interior is somewhat suspect. I expect the Pats will make at least one veteran move at the guard position.

That is what I thought too. But the IOL depth on the PS may not be as barren as first observation would suggest.

Plus Nick Mangold is still out there as a 1 year opportunity.

I guess that you'll be surprised when 2-4 IOL's are brought in before the season starts.

No I would not be surprised at all. But all I said was there is more talent there on the PS, than was suspected, Playing C requires brains as well as brawn. Several of them were Academic All Americans so they probably have the mental capacity to call line assignments at C. I did not know that ex 4th round pick, Jamil Douglas had 6 starts under his belt including 2 at Center.

 

[maineman209]

Or it could be "replace Scar better than we did last time".

That, too.