Stafford on the trading block [update: traded to Rams]

[RIpats88]

looking at every 1st round QB in the last 20 years. Especially where the patriots are picking #15 its not exactly a guarantee that you are going to find a guy even at Jimmy G's level
Ranking every NFL quarterback drafted in the first round since 2000

dwayne haskins #15, EJ Manuel #16 Josh Freeman #17

if we end up with a guy who becomes one of those 3 would you be happy if we passed on Stafford or Jimmy G?

 

[Steve102]

I agree with you on Stidham (or at least I definitely have doubts), but would you like to give up the #15 pick just to have your heart broken in the final two minutes of the game with regularity? Because that's essentially what you'd be acquiring with it.

Put me in the camp that I'll take Stafford but not at the cost of #15. I believe the staff in Foxboro can fix some of his woes and make him better. He's never going to be great, but perhaps he can be good enough.

 

[Patriot Missile]

A 1st round pick is so valuable where you control that player for multiple years on a low salary. Absolutely not for 33 yr old Stafford. All the excuse making that this loser didn't have a good roster in Detroit, the Pats roster isn't loaded either. Stafford does not elevate his team or make it better.

Agreed, and he’s had good rosters and still not got it done. Calvin Johnson, Marvin Jones, Golden Tate. He’s had the chance to work with an up and coming te in Hockenson and has done squat. What’s he going to do here with this talent which is worse than what he’s got now at the skill positions? We’re probably on the same page.

 

[JMC00]

but we definitely still just lose the first playoff game.

No clue how anyone can make that definitive of a statement.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Put me in the camp that I'll take Stafford but not at the cost of #15. I believe the staff in Foxboro can fix some of his woes and make him better. He's never going to be great, but perhaps he can be good enough.

Definitely. Coaching will make him better if he is still coachable. A 2nd or 3rd seems more reasonable to me. Especially for a team that wants to move on and is desperate for a pick in exchange. I really dont want the Pats to be that team that caves.

 

[JMC00]

Agreed, and he’s had good rosters

He's had some good (and 1 great) WRs. He hasn't had good rosters. Pats OL even without Thuney would be the best OL he's ever had and I won't even start on the whole defensive aspect.

 

[Vatahala]

I was surprised after reading a Lions MB that very few posters harbor any ill will against Stafford, I thought more fans would welcome a change.

 

[scott99]

I like Stafford. Probably more than most on this board. But no way in hell am I trading a first round pick for a guy who turns 34 next month. Not on a rebuilding team. That #15 pick should get you at the very least, an above average starter (at whatever position) for the next ten years. This team has too many holes to fill to throw away a high pick for a guy in his mid 30s. Realistically he would be 36 or 37 by the time this team can be built into a legit contender, not just a playoff team.

Turns 33 next month. Plus 33 is still pretty young for QBs nowadays. Pats have plenty of cap space and draft capital to get it done. Stafford isn’t an elite QB, but he’s at worst top 15, at best top 10. He finished top 12 in all categories.

That being said, my preference with the #15 pick, if we are to trade it, is to trade UP for one of the top 4 QBs in the draft. My preference being Wilson, or Lance. Not a big Fields fan. He’s not horrible, something about him scared me.

 

[Ring 6]

None of the 10

You just said only 5 of 9 were that high.

 

[Sicilian]

Definitely. Coaching will make him better if he is still coachable. A 2nd or 3rd seems more reasonable to me. Especially for a team that wants to move on and is desperate for a pick in exchange. I really dont want the Pats to be that team that caves.

I agree with this. The Patriots with Belichick have only had 8 picks in the top 25 of the draft (in TWENTY years), and at least two of those were acquired via trades. The eight players they've picked 25 or better were:

6 - Richard Seymour (natural pick)
10 - Jerod Mayo (acquired via trade-down the year before)
17 - Nate Solder (acquired via Seymour trade)
19 - Ty Warren (Natural pick I think? Or small trade up)
21 - Vince Wilfork (Natural pick)
21 - Chandler Jones (trade up)
23 - Isaiah Wynn (Trade, can't remember which one)
25 - D'onta Hightower (trade up)

The WORST player you can pick from that list is Wynn, but only because he hasn't put together a full healthy season. That's what you're giving up in exchange for a 33 year old QB who isn't a sure thing. I'm fine with taking a flyer on Stafford, but not for #15.

EDIT: Added where I think the picks came from originally (my memory could be off, so feel free to correct me). But it seems like they've only had THREE natural top 25 picks in the Belichick era. The rest they had to trade for, or trade up into. They also may have had some that they traded OUT of that I don't remember, but I feel like most of their trades out of the first round came towards the end (trading out of 27 and selecting McCourty, for example).

 

[Ring 6]

here's the more telling QB cap hit numbers - since 2010, only 5 super bowl winners had QBs with a cap hit over 10% of the total cap....3 of those were tom brady, and none of those were over 12.4%

stafford & garropolo's current cap hits for next year, without a restructure, would be 15+%......restructure for both would probably include extensions.......don't think staffords window would be the restructure for this roster, and i'm not sold on garrapolo enough to go long term on him

the more i ramble and the more i read, the more i'm sold on jacoby brissett in 2021 hahaha

You would rather lose with brisset then won by paying market value for a capable qb?

 

[Patriot Missile]

With all this Stafford talk this morning I’m starting to think 15 is a tough spot to be in. Seems a lot of teams in the market for a qb that weren’t just a a few days ago.

Colts with the Rivers retirement. Rumors of Lions moving Stafford. SF possibly moving Jimmy G,

Consensus 1st round qbs. Lawrence, Wilson, Fields, Lance, Fields and now after the championship game Mac Jones. A lot can change from now until the draft but there is a chance that one of the guys isn’t going to be available. Also a chance that the Pats won’t even be looking if they trade for someone they like for JG for instance?

 

[patfanken]

granted I haven't read all 12 pages of this thread, but I have a couple of thoughts to add to the discussion.

1. imho I think Stafford would make a great pick up and make the Pats once again into a playoff contender (along with other FA and draft pick ups) Never underestimate the power of good coaching and being a part of winning program.

2. Who says it has to be the #15 pick. If the Lions are going to rid themselves of Stafford, then they will have to understand that they aren't going to get a premium price for him for all the negatives that people have stated (real and imagined)

Here are few ideas of packages that might do the deal

a. for example Trade down with someone eager to grab a QB and get at least a 2nd and 3rd then use the 2nd you'd get in a package with a 2nd in 2021. That way you pick up the big DT we need as well as keeping a higher 2nd round pick.

b. offer a player or two. I'd rather not lose Gilmore, (yes he IS that good), but he is in play. Also why not think about Thuney in a sign and trade deal. Or add a Harry (potential but needs a change of scenery type player) Sony as a solid productive RB could be a player of value to the Lions, and available to us because of the quality and deep RB corps we have.

c. So maybe a deal that includes Harry, Michel, a 2nd, a 3rd and a conditional pick in 2021, that could be as high as a 2nd and as low as a 5th depending on Stafford's success. THEN we trade down 5-7 spots and get back those 2nd and 3rd round picks. 2 players and potentially 3 2nd day picks seem like a very generous haul for Stafford, too much perhaps, but its the kind of deal that could get us Stafford without having to give up that #1 pick.

3. THEN we use our cap space to improve the WR position and hope Assasi and Keene can give us adequate TE play (along with at least one FA).

I think we have enough cap space to add at least 3 quality FA's this off season. And if we can acquire a top 15 QB we are only 4 or 5 quality players away from being a playoff team again.

 

[yukon cornelius]

You would rather lose with brisset then won by paying market value for a capable qb?

with the current roster, the need to upgrade multiple positions as well as having a healthy free agent list to deal with, i'd rather not give up the 15 pick for a vet QB, nor do i see any value in a QB drafted in that position or lower.....i'd rather commit high draft resources to other roster needs, and not hamstring the roster by over committing to a QB.....if a vet can be had without over committing $$ and draft picks, i think there's several options that will reveal themselves that can help this team improve

i'm ok with stafford, i'm ok with jimmy G - IF they can be had without losing the 15 pick or over spending......i don't see a QB in the draft that can be had without moving up that is a viable solution......so that leaves a vet option as the best option for next year at the very least....the trick will be the cost - this team needs draft & $$ to fill multiple holes/deficiencies.....i believe there's going to multiple QB options that will be an upgrade while still leaving the team resources to meet those other needs; whether that is jimmy G or stafford or brissett or mariotta or other vet options remains to be seen; but this team is NOT in position to over commit to one position of need if it means other positions of need are not viably dealt with

 

[Toofy]

I don't think Stafford would want to come here and from a Personal point he might want to go to a place where everything is already set and not for some team on rebuild. I think bills aura is not that high this year for folks to come in to pats . Definitely a risky proposition.

You think frank reich is an “offensive genius” and a player who wants to win would pick him and the Indianapolis colts over bill belichick and the mew England patriots? Are you

I don't think Stafford would want to come here and from a Personal point he might want to go to a place where everything is already set and not for some team on rebuild. I think bills aura is not that high this year for folks to come in to pats . Definitely a risky proposition.

You think frank reich is an “offensive genius” and a player who wants to win would pick him and the Indianapolis colts over bill belichick and the mew England patriots? Are you crazy?

I am talking from Stafford perspective. He might see colts to be a better contender than Bill. I am not saying we are a dumpster fire, but the fact that Stafford probably does not think too highly of patricia and him being back in pats fold might dissuade him further.

As for colts they have a lot of pieces set in motion. As for us we are at least a season or 2 away from contention.

The eagles were never the same once frank left and the colts have gotten stronger and all they need is a stud QB.
The jury is still out on Bill without brady. So if my career is at stake , I would go to less risky proposition which is colts..

 

[Ivan]

looking at every 1st round QB in the last 20 years. Especially where the patriots are picking #15 its not exactly a guarantee that you are going to find a guy even at Jimmy G's level
Ranking every NFL quarterback drafted in the first round since 2000

dwayne haskins #15, EJ Manuel #16 Josh Freeman #17

if we end up with a guy who becomes one of those 3 would you be happy if we passed on Stafford or Jimmy G?

Agree completely. Having the need shouldn’t mean addressing it with prospects who won’t be good enough in the long run. I do think Belichick wants an athletic QB, but the player is still going have to meet his other criteria for the position. I get why some are upset he passed on Lamar Jackson but if a QB isn’t going to be accurate enough Belichick is not going with them, and I think that was issue he saw with Jackson. The more I think about it the more I could get behind trading for Stafford, and drafting QB prospects for the future. It could be that Belichick and MacDaniels can get Stafford over the hump in terms of winning, and $20 million for QB of his caliber is a good deal.

 

[Patriot_fan989]

Please Lord make this happen. Stafford's great and always been one of my favorite QBs. Squeeze in a few more SB's before Belichick retires.

 

[Ivan]

I am talking from Stafford perspective. He might see colts to be a better contender than Bill. I am not saying we are a dumpster fire, but the fact that Stafford probably does not think too highly of patricia and him being back in pats fold might dissuade him further.

As for colts they have a lot of pieces set in motion. As for us we are at least a season or 2 away from contention.

The eagles were never the same once frank left and the colts have gotten stronger and all they need is a stud QB.
The jury is still out on Bill without brady. So if my career is at stake , I would go to less risky proposition which is colts..

Unfortunately I do think Indy is more likely to end up with Stafford when all is said and done.

 

[lancerman]

I was surprised after reading a Lions MB that very few posters harbor any ill will against Stafford, I thought more fans would welcome a change.

They know they didn't really put the best team around him. He had one good defense in 2014. He started after the 0-16 season and they were a disaster. The reality is that it's harder to find an equal or better replacement than Stafford in this league.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm seeing a lot of posts talking about Stafford not wanting to come here because of Patricia. Even assuming Patricia was in a role where he'd be working directly with Stafford, have there been reports that Stafford specifically had conflict with Patricia? I know that the players in general weren't impressed by him, but I hadn't read anything saying Stafford in particular was contentious. I don't read everything though, so if I missed something let me know. Still, I'm not sure it would be enough to make Stafford bail on the situation. Patricia won't be the head coach.