PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
Search

Speculating on my optimism

2022 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A
Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

Sam Bam Cunningham

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Just as an FYI...here are the stats for Josh Allen's first 2 years in Buffalo...they were not stellar for years 1 and 2.
His QBR did not start to climb over 49 until year 3. Not saying that MAC is anywhere close to Allen...but the point is maybe we are expecting too much too soon from MAC. Year 3 is perhaps when we should see the jump.
I do not think his vision and pre snap reads have developed yet.
Even though I do not think he will be elite, the truth is most guys need more time.

Used to be rookie B's would wait 3-5 years before starting.

 

PatsFan2

Pro Bowl Player
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Just as an FYI...here are the stats for Josh Allen's first 2 years in Buffalo...they were not stellar for years 1 and 2.
His QBR did not start to climb over 49 until year 3. Not saying that MAC is anywhere close to Allen...but the point is maybe we are expecting too much too soon from MAC. Year 3 is perhaps when we should see the jump.
I do not think his vision and pre snap reads have developed yet.
Even though I do not think he will be elite, the truth is most guys need more time.

Used to be rookie B's would wait 3-5 years before starting.

Good point still would like to see a little more zip and less air under those ducks both short and long. Got out my old Nintendo duck hunt blaster after seeing a few of Mac's balls brought back memories.
 

StrawHatPatriot

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Just as an FYI...here are the stats for Josh Allen's first 2 years in Buffalo...they were not stellar for years 1 and 2.
His QBR did not start to climb over 49 until year 3. Not saying that MAC is anywhere close to Allen...but the point is maybe we are expecting too much too soon from MAC. Year 3 is perhaps when we should see the jump.
I do not think his vision and pre snap reads have developed yet.
Even though I do not think he will be elite, the truth is most guys need more time.

Used to be rookie B's would wait 3-5 years before starting.

Ugh...

This is the new "Peyton manning threw 28 picks in his rookie season!"

These are anamolies. And Mac Jones's flaws are related to his limitations more than anything. Allen had phsycial upside at least with his arm strength, zip, and build. Mac might already be as good as he'll be.
 

Sam Bam Cunningham

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Ugh...

This is the new "Peyton manning threw 28 picks in his rookie season!"

These are anamolies. And Mac Jones's flaws are related to his limitations more than anything. Allen had phsycial upside at least with his arm strength, zip, and build. Mac might already be as good as he'll be.
I do not disagree, but giving him through year 3 before changing course is wise
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I know that things looked bad, Mac is taking too much heat for a team loss. Compare the interception in the end zone where the Miami corner won the battle vs. Parker against the Hill catch where he took the pass away from one of the Jones boys. As Gisele would say Mac can't throw the ball and catch it while blocking at the line of scrimmage. The real loss yesterday was if Mac will be compromised the rest of the season which will set the process back until next year. If that happens the media will be sure to inflict enough mental damage to the rest of the team to really make this a lost season.

Whatever happens to the team for the rest of the season will, more likely than not, not be determined by how much mental damage if any the press might inflict on it. If it is, then this is a weaker bunch than I already suspect it is...
 

Stu Pidassle

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Whatever happens to the team for the rest of the season will, more likely than not, not be determined by how much mental damage if any the press might inflict on it. If it is, then this is a weaker bunch than I already suspect it is...
Maybe I am talking about myself, LOL. That said, I am afraid that this team is fragile. The statements about only a couple of plays etc. makes it seem that BB thinks so as well. Going back to last year early issues seemed to snowball and I don't think there were any second half comeback wins. Yesterday the offense was flat after the first interception. There does not seem to be the us against the world mentality that was the calling card of the first part of dynasty. There are a lot of young players that need to come together to forge their identity for the team to be truly competitive.
 

MrBigglesWorth

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
The biggest issue use to be personnel that could be overcome by coaching... Now the biggest issue is coaching. To many mental errors
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Maybe I am talking about myself, LOL. That said, I am afraid that this team is fragile. The statements about only a couple of plays etc. makes it seem that BB thinks so as well. Going back to last year early issues seemed to snowball and I don't think there were any second half comeback wins. Yesterday the offense was flat after the first interception. There does not seem to be the us against the world mentality that was the calling card of the first part of dynasty. There are a lot of young players that need to come together to forge their identity for the team to be truly competitive.

Absolutely.
 

crawhammer

In the Starting Line-Up
Just as an FYI...here are the stats for Josh Allen's first 2 years in Buffalo...they were not stellar for years 1 and 2.
His QBR did not start to climb over 49 until year 3. Not saying that MAC is anywhere close to Allen...but the point is maybe we are expecting too much too soon from MAC. Year 3 is perhaps when we should see the jump.
I do not think his vision and pre snap reads have developed yet.
Even though I do not think he will be elite, the truth is most guys need more time.

Used to be rookie B's would wait 3-5 years before starting.
We're already punting to next season on Mac's development? Seems like a lot of people were expecting a big jump in season two. Burrow made a significant jump in season two. Lamar Jackson won league MVP. And Mahomes. Look at the beginning of Watson's career. Herbert threw for 5000 yards in season two. Murray was playing at a legit pro bowl level by season two. They are plenty of franchise quarterbacks making elite contributions very early in their careers. Also, regarding Allen, he did have 9 rushing TDs in his second season... in total he had 29 TDs and 13 TOs which is a decent ratio.

I don't have Mac's ceiling near most of those quarterbacks but if he isn't improved from last season then it's going to a long season because the supporting cast isn't great (it's good) and the offensive coaching staff isn't good (it's bad). Let's get Bourne back on the field but even still they need a true WR1. And a qualified, preferably experienced, OC.
 

VectorPrime

Pro Bowl Player
Good point still would like to see a little more zip and less air under those ducks both short and long. Got out my old Nintendo duck hunt blaster after seeing a few of Mac's balls brought back memories.

Josh Allen played at WYOMING and never hit 60% passes completed in a season in his life. He was from the very start billed as “incredibly raw but high upside.”

Mac is almost literally the exact opposite kind of prospect in every measurable way.
 

Sam Bam Cunningham

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
We're already punting to next season on Mac's development? Seems like a lot of people were expecting a big jump in season two. Burrow made a significant jump in season two. Lamar Jackson won league MVP. And Mahomes. Look at the beginning of Watson's career. Herbert threw for 5000 yards in season two. Murray was playing at a legit pro bowl level by season two. They are plenty of franchise quarterbacks making elite contributions very early in their careers. Also, regarding Allen, he did have 9 rushing TDs in his second season... in total he had 29 TDs and 13 TOs which is a decent ratio.

I don't have Mac's ceiling near most of those quarterbacks but if he isn't improved from last season then it's going to a long season because the supporting cast isn't great (it's good) and the offensive coaching staff isn't good (it's bad). Let's get Bourne back on the field but even still they need a true WR1. And a qualified, preferably experienced, OC.
good information. Thank you for sharing. Agree with everything you said, especially about the experienced OC.
Lamar Jackson, Mahomes, Watson and Herbert were exceptions in terms of raw physical talent.
 

jah

Degeneracy Expert
PatsFans.com Supporter
We're already punting to next season on Mac's development? Seems like a lot of people were expecting a big jump in season two. Burrow made a significant jump in season two. Lamar Jackson won league MVP. And Mahomes. Look at the beginning of Watson's career. Herbert threw for 5000 yards in season two. Murray was playing at a legit pro bowl level by season two. They are plenty of franchise quarterbacks making elite contributions very early in their careers. Also, regarding Allen, he did have 9 rushing TDs in his second season... in total he had 29 TDs and 13 TOs which is a decent ratio.

I don't have Mac's ceiling near most of those quarterbacks but if he isn't improved from last season then it's going to a long season because the supporting cast isn't great (it's good) and the offensive coaching staff isn't good (it's bad). Let's get Bourne back on the field but even still they need a true WR1. And a qualified, preferably experienced, OC.
You tend to notice the season 2 jump during camp and the preseason, although it's certainly possible it could happen in the middle of the regular season. I just don't think the jump has happened yet; he looks roughly the same as he did last year, arguably a bit worse in ways that may be attributable to factors other than himself.
 

PATSYLICIOUS

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
We're already punting to next season on Mac's development? Seems like a lot of people were expecting a big jump in season two. Burrow made a significant jump in season two. Lamar Jackson won league MVP. And Mahomes. Look at the beginning of Watson's career. Herbert threw for 5000 yards in season two. Murray was playing at a legit pro bowl level by season two. They are plenty of franchise quarterbacks making elite contributions very early in their careers. Also, regarding Allen, he did have 9 rushing TDs in his second season... in total he had 29 TDs and 13 TOs which is a decent ratio.

I don't have Mac's ceiling near most of those quarterbacks but if he isn't improved from last season then it's going to a long season because the supporting cast isn't great (it's good) and the offensive coaching staff isn't good (it's bad). Let's get Bourne back on the field but even still they need a true WR1. And a qualified, preferably experienced, OC.

Those guys all had better weapons though. I don’t think we’ll see a major spike in mac’s numbers until he gets an elite weapon. Until then just hoping for steady improvements in the numbers and better decision making
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Josh Allen played at WYOMING and never hit 60% passes completed in a season in his life. He was from the very start billed as “incredibly raw but high upside.”

Mac is almost literally the exact opposite kind of prospect in every measurable way.

Yep, he's a high-floor / low-ceiling dude, and that's about it... Especially if his pocket-awareness & decision-making abilities don't improve.
 

woolster22

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
Well in my case it's tough to say it will be better with the state of the LB corp. Faster is the glass half full. Is a younger faster Jennings an upgrade over a Hightower who lost a gear?

Tough to say. But what we know is that slow LB corp was not enough last year. So an infusion of speed can only be a good thing. But losing wisdom and savviness is surely a bad thing. So now we get to see kids trucking at 100mph and hopefully there are more positive plays vs negative plays.

But get the inference. Just my two pennies
I love the guy, but HT had lost far more than simply "a gear" last year.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Dog. I was just trying to troll the troll. Let me do my thing and don't get caught in the trolling crossfire lol
In every war there are casualties.

I disagree. For most of Patriots history this has been true. Do I know specifically why?

The Boston professional athletic atmosphere is more conducive to intelligence and focus than other areas of the country?

Boston sports fans are spoiled. Rotten. There is no other city in the country with such a history of competitiveness and success on the professional level.

The "Any Given Sunday" is applicable to most other teams, and all of them, including the Patriots, at one time or another.

I think that the Patriots have always flown under the national radar. It's one reason they only got attention when something unusual or stupid happens. But local media is mostly responsible for ignorance and dismissal of the team's success.

Boston is different. More attention is paid to sports around here than in other cities.

But, the big thing that my statement is based upon is the results under Parcells & Belichick. They speak for themselves.
The Pats have had successful teams in every decade of their existence. It just took them a while to win the big one.

After seeing the players that I've seen for "my" teams I feel blessed more than spoiled.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Those guys all had better weapons though. I don’t think we’ll see a major spike in mac’s numbers until he gets an elite weapon. Until then just hoping for steady improvements in the numbers and better decision making
After seeing the first game I'm hoping that Mac can stay upright. The Steelers are a pretty dirty team.
 

1960Pats

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It was interesting to come to this thread after the first game was played. The tone changed a little, but I'm still confident because the Pats under Bill start slowly. They seem to be a work in progress more than most teams.

Here are some of my thoughts as I read this thread;

It's funny how so little confidence there was in Pitt but they look like they could be okay. I hope so anyway. I put 5,000 Dingle Dollars on them at (+400) to make the playoffs.

I'm not so sure that Watson will be as good after a couple of years off. We'll see I guess. Btw, has there ever been a player that was so unpopular, even with his own team's fans? As tough as it's been for them, having to pull for that dirtbag has taken them to a new low.

After one game the playoff teams are really pretty well set in the AFC if you look at it closely. Buf, Bal, Cin, KC, LC, Ten are 6 right off the bat.

Sorry to be so direct, but it's crazy talk to think that Josh was more important to the team's success than JC Jackson. C'mon man. :)
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
Josh Allen played at WYOMING and never hit 60% passes completed in a season in his life. He was from the very start billed as “incredibly raw but high upside.”

Mac is almost literally the exact opposite kind of prospect in every measurable way.
Ever notice that its rare for an over hyped college QB to succeed at the next level?

Burrow is a rare example. Peyton Manning too. Guys like Josh Allen, Mahomes, Russel Wilson, Arron Rodgers, Brady fly under the radar and are ready to prove their merit in the Pros. I do not recall and pics of them smoking a cigar in the locker room like the legend Red Auerbach.

I have my doubts about Trevor Lawrence too.
 

Top