Special master rules in favor of Sauerbrun/NFLPA

[biffman]

He forces fumbles! He's done a good job punting and he often has his best games when you really need him to do well.

And he's not a loner with the Broncos. He's always giving Nate Jackson a hard time in camp. Maybe your players and coaches are too aloof?

That's why the donks cut him, right?

 

[evendelae]

That's why the donks cut him, right?

suspension.....

That and Ernster was outperforming him through camp and the early games, but once Sauerbrun left Ernster pretty much sucked.

31st ranked special teams when Sauerbrun left.

Ick.

 

[biffman]

suspension.....

That and Ernster was outperforming him through camp and the early games, but once Sauerbrun left Ernster pretty much sucked.

31st ranked special teams when Sauerbrun left.

Ick.

Didn’t they cut him AFTER the suspension?

In any event, my problem with sauerbrun (I know I must have butchered the spelling) is that the broncos cut him. He was not getting a sniff of attention and the Pats gave him a chance (I know the Pats needed a punter, but they still are the team that gave him a second chance). Instead of signing with the team who got him back into football, he goes back to the team that cut him. Not only that, he filed a grievance to get out of the contract.

I don’t see him as a big loss – he had a couple of hiccups and then played pretty well. He’s not going to make or break the team, it just would have been nice to see a little appreciation. It’s his choice, obviously, but I really hope he gets cut again. What can I say, I’m petty.

 

[evendelae]

I love it when people who are clueless about the inner workings of the Patriots come over here and attempt to tell Pats fans the "truth" and try and blame everything on the front office.

Reche Caldwell and his dropsies. If someone catches those two balls, you most likely win the game. Patriots fans on the Broncos site agree with me.

So that's why he retired? Not that he was a 12-year vet, who almost joined Willie Roaf in retirement last year? He hates the chief engine of the team's offense? He's "horrendously underpaid" at 4.7 mill, with only 3 others above him on the team in terms of pay? Right. OK. Got it!

Ah, how pre-emptive of you! You are still 9-7, no matter how you cut it. Cutler or no Cutler. Even if the Football Gods smile most favorably upon that team, 11-5 is where they max out, and I'm sorry, Charlie, but that just ain't gonna win your division.

That "total and inexplicable loss" ushered in the end of your season. Actually, I'm surprised it didn't happen earlier, but Shanahan had that team playing on adrenaline and fumes for way too long. I wasn't surprised at all when it happened.

That Colt team has always had the ability to score points in bunches, regardless of the opponent. They've always done well against your team.

But more than that, the AFCCG loss (do you understand that - AFCCG loss? It means we were there, and 14 other teams - including yours - weren't. We were 2 minutes and 4 yards from returning to our 4th Super Bowl in 6 years. We'll take it!) has been viewed as an opportunity to - not rebuild - reload. It appears the team has done that very well. There are still a few holes on this team, but the other side of that coin is, yours has a hell of a lot more.

Yeah, not just functionally illiterate, but developmentally disabled. There's another article which I can't find that mentions that "a veteran lineman" would rather retire than block for him.

These posts of yours are not merely inane, they're becoming a total waste of time. Good luck learning to use your spell checker.

You're the one talking out of your ass here. Will Shields was making 1.2 million in 2007. You want to know a player on the Broncos making that? John Engelberger. He was absolutely underpaid. But we already knew that the Chiefs are a **** organization.

Larry Johnson is far from the most popular player in the Chiefs' locker room with the players. He's aloof, moody and constantly distracted by his desire to be misunderstood and to be a member of Jay-Z's posse. Johnson, according to another teammate, can be a disruptive force in locker-room chemistry. The team's most valuable and important player, according to a teammate, oftentimes sits in meetings text messaging friends and associates.
-- Kansas City Star

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/scorecard/02/15/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html?cnn=yes

If you can't put two and two together here than you're the one that's developmentally disabled. There's an article which i'll post if I can find it that mentions that "a veteran offensive lineman" would rather retire than block for LJ again.

So first you say I'm preemptive for predicting 9-7 to 11-5 but then proceed to say we'll be 9-7? And we won't win our division? Who the hell else is? Norv Turner. That's all.

I don't know how you can say we were running on pure adrenaline. Our team collapsed when we lost our starting D-Tackle and both of our safeties to injury. It wasn't as high profile as the Browns or something like that, but the injuries we suffered were at the worst possible positions at the worst possible time. After we lost Sam Brandon and Nick Ferguson our defense absolutely died. I have no idea why they choked against San Diego, but they did.

We've improved our defense and our special teams. Our offense, on paper, is absolutely light years ahead of where it was last year. We've fixed our problems and, imo, had a better offseason than you. We'll see, but there's no reason to think we'll suck this year. And what exactly makes you think you're not going to bomb this year? We're all 0-0 at this point.

Playoffs? Boy, that's big dreams for that Denver team....

Oh, how quickly we forget. Not that I blame you wanting to block something like that out.

My theory. Y'all are still bitter about Sharpe.

 

[pats1]

Reche Caldwell and his dropsies. If someone catches those two balls, you most likely win the game. Patriots fans on the Broncos site agree with me.

You mean the ones who have nothing better to do than post on Broncos boards?

They're in the minority. Barely anyone around here is blaming Caldwell for the loss.

 

[DaBruinz]

Reche Caldwell and his dropsies. If someone catches those two balls, you most likely win the game. Patriots fans on the Broncos site agree with me.

Sure they do. SURE THEY DO.

Here's a reality check for you. You can't just assume that the situation would be exactly the same but with Branch or Givens in there. Why? Because reality doesn't work like that. Had Givens or Branch been around, the situations where Caldwell dropped the two balls would never have happened because all the games previously would have been different also. If you and they want to claim to be some sort of soothsayer or Miss Cleo and claim that you'd know the future, so be it. It just means you can continue to be laughed at.

OH, as for your other garbage, how about you learn how to properly use the multi-quote function so you aren't attributing other people's quote's to myself.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Reche Caldwell and his dropsies. If someone catches those two balls, you most likely win the game. Patriots fans on the Broncos site agree with me.


You're the one talking out of your ass here. Will Shields was making 1.2 million in 2007. You want to know a player on the Broncos making that? John Engelberger. He was absolutely underpaid. But we already knew that the Chiefs are a **** organization.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/scorecard/02/15/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html?cnn=yes

If you can't put two and two together here than you're the one that's developmentally disabled. There's an article which i'll post if I can find it that mentions that "a veteran offensive lineman" would rather retire than block for LJ again.

So first you say I'm preemptive for predicting 9-7 to 11-5 but then proceed to say we'll be 9-7? And we won't win our division? Who the hell else is? Norv Turner. That's all.

I don't know how you can say we were running on pure adrenaline. Our team collapsed when we lost our starting D-Tackle and both of our safeties to injury. It wasn't as high profile as the Browns or something like that, but the injuries we suffered were at the worst possible positions at the worst possible time. After we lost Sam Brandon and Nick Ferguson our defense absolutely died. I have no idea why they choked against San Diego, but they did.

We've improved our defense and our special teams. Our offense, on paper, is absolutely light years ahead of where it was last year. We've fixed our problems and, imo, had a better offseason than you. We'll see, but there's no reason to think we'll suck this year. And what exactly makes you think you're not going to bomb this year? We're all 0-0 at this point.

Oh, how quickly we forget. Not that I blame you wanting to block something like that out.

My theory. Y'all are still bitter about Sharpe.

Here's the Chief's payroll for the '06 season:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67049

I'm impressed with the way you used the past tense for the '07 season. You might want to revisit that "talking out of your ass" comment....

And, no! I'm not saying you were 9-7 - I'm saying are 9 - 7!

They "choked" against San Diego because they ran out of gas! Even today's Post has an article about Tuten toughing the team up because of their collapse last season, which, according to that article, has not been all that uncommon in this decade.

The Patriots suffer debilitating injuries on defense most every year, and most every year we are contending, if not winning outright. We don't use that as a crutch. We simply acknowledge that "it is what it is".

So you think you've had a better off-season than us, huh? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but the pundits and the bookies don't agree with you right now....

Sharpe was a good one, that is acknowledged, but he was much, much better on the field than he has been in the broadcasting booth.

**************************************************

Quite apart from all this, other than manufacturing turds for the Chicken Little Brigade, exactly what are you doing here?

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Didn’t they cut him AFTER the suspension?

In any event, my problem with sauerbrun (I know I must have butchered the spelling) is that the broncos cut him. He was not getting a sniff of attention and the Pats gave him a chance (I know the Pats needed a punter, but they still are the team that gave him a second chance). Instead of signing with the team who got him back into football, he goes back to the team that cut him. Not only that, he filed a grievance to get out of the contract.

I don’t see him as a big loss – he had a couple of hiccups and then played pretty well. He’s not going to make or break the team, it just would have been nice to see a little appreciation. It’s his choice, obviously, but I really hope he gets cut again. What can I say, I’m petty.

Yes, he was cut after the suspension. When it came time for him to come off that list and rejoin the team, Shanahan was forced to fish or cut bait, and we all know how that one turned out, don't we?

 

[PromisedLand]

Is this thread becoming a shouting match?

I tried to post the following earlier, but network problems prevented me:

If the Pats front office indeed screwed up by not following procedure in the right of first refusal matter, doesn't it seem like this kind of screwup used to happen a lot more in the olden days, pre-Kraft? I can't remember any specific examples, but my sense is this kind of procedural/technical error seemed to happen a lot in the bad old days under Sullivan and Kiam (I've omitted Orthwein only because he had Parcells running the team and I don't recall specifically any such errors during Parcells' first year here.)

Maybe some of the other old timers can help me out here. Doesn't it seem like, even if the Sauerbrun affair WAS a screw-up, that that kind of thing has been much rarer than it used to be? I don't remember any other such incident since BB came here, nor for that matter since Kraft bought the team.

 

[pats1]

Here's the infamous First Refusal Offer Sheet:

http://nflpa.org/cba/cba_pdf/Appendix_D_First_Refusal_Offer_Sheet.pdf

There's also this one:

http://nflpa.org/cba/cba_pdf/Appendix_E_First_Refusal_Exercise_Notice.pdf

Sauerbrun also has to fill out this one:

http://nflpa.org/cba/cba_pdf/Appendix_F_Waiver_of_Free_Agent_Rights.pdf

 

[evendelae]

Sure they do. SURE THEY DO.

Here's a reality check for you. You can't just assume that the situation would be exactly the same but with Branch or Givens in there. Why? Because reality doesn't work like that. Had Givens or Branch been around, the situations where Caldwell dropped the two balls would never have happened because all the games previously would have been different also. If you and they want to claim to be some sort of soothsayer or Miss Cleo and claim that you'd know the future, so be it. It just means you can continue to be laughed at.

OH, as for your other garbage, how about you learn how to properly use the multi-quote function so you aren't attributing other people's quote's to myself.

Do those quotes say anywhere on them "DaBruinz"? No. Those people know who they are. But I guess I'll appease you.

Here's the Chief's payroll for the '06 season:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSal...tegoryId=67049

I'm impressed with the way you used the past tense for the '07 season. You might want to revisit that "talking out of your ass" comment....

And, no! I'm not saying you were 9-7 - I'm saying are 9 - 7!

They "choked" against San Diego because they ran out of gas! Even today's Post has an article about Tuten toughing the team up because of their collapse last season, which, according to that article, has not been all that uncommon in this decade.

The Patriots suffer debilitating injuries on defense most every year, and most every year we are contending, if not winning outright. We don't use that as a crutch. We simply acknowledge that "it is what it is".

So you think you've had a better off-season than us, huh? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but the pundits and the bookies don't agree with you right now....

Sharpe was a good one, that is acknowledged, but he was much, much better on the field than he has been in the broadcasting booth.

Um, the Shields numbers I have are the NFLPA ones. He's not making half as much as comparable guards like Hutchinson.

My team is not 9-7. It is 0-0. The official new league year started in March.

They didn't choke against San Diego because they ran out of gas. They choked because of Larry Coyer and his mortal fear of the blitz. We dominated (and swept) them in '05 when we actually got pressure.

The problem with losing our SS, particularly Sam Brandon, is that right when he went down we played Antonio Gates twice and Tony Gonzalez sandwiched in between. We had no one to cover the tight ends. We had to convert our nickel corner (Foxworth) to safety. He's 170 pounds dripping wet, so we basically had no chance.

The pundits hate Denver. That's why we have one HOFer even though this team has been to the Superbowl six times. That didn't happen out of fairy dust and luck. I'm sure you don't notice the East Coast bias where you are, but pretty much everyone out west does. It's absolutely stunning to me to hear how many people on the coasts think Denver's a little snow town.

The reason I think we've had a better offseason is that we've acquired more quality players than you. Donte Stallworth was pretty much a bust, Kelly Washington almost never sees the field, Wes Welker you vastly overpaid for, Kyle Brady is servicable, and I've lost track of who else you've signed. AD will be good, but I doubt he's going to single handedly win a championship either. I personally am not worried about him. We shut him down when we played Baltimore last year.

Graham was signed to block and catch, and why wouldn't he? He should vastly improve QB protection, which was a major problem since George"What's technique?"Foster was inserted back into the lineup. Travis Henry is a 1200 yard back running behind the totally average Titans line. His style was absolutely made for the ZBS. Our tepid running game is fixed, and we have quality depth in Mike Bell. Dre Bly and Champ Bailey are scary. Bill Belichick agrees with me. I don't know where you all got the idea that he sucks, but in the game I saw last year, he pretty much shut Torry Holt down. He'll abuse teams second recievers, especially here in the AFC West. When Eddie Kennison and Vincent Jackson are #1s in your division, you know you're fine with Champ and Bly. Getting Sauerbrun should vastly improve our field position, and we signed several special teams cover guys to help out. We added depth on our O and D lines.

We're looking good.

 

[pats1]

Um, the Shields numbers I have are the NFLPA ones. He's not making half as much as comparable guards like Hutchinson.

Get a clue. NFLPA.org only lists base salaries, of which Shields' is $1.2 million. That doesn't take into account any of his signing bonus or any other bonuses or incentives. Trying to compare Shields' base salary to Hutchinson's is foolish.

Peyton Manning had a $665,000 base salary in 2005. Was he "underpaid?"

My team is not 9-7. It is 0-0. The official new league year started in March.

They didn't choke against San Diego because they ran out of gas. They choked because of Larry Coyer and his mortal fear of the blitz. We dominated (and swept) them in '05 when we actually got pressure.

The problem with losing our SS, particularly Sam Brandon, is that right when he went down we played Antonio Gates twice and Tony Gonzalez sandwiched in between. We had no one to cover the tight ends. We had to convert our nickel corner (Foxworth) to safety. He's 170 pounds dripping wet, so we basically had no chance.

The pundits hate Denver. That's why we have one HOFer even though this team has been to the Superbowl six times. That didn't happen out of fairy dust and luck. I'm sure you don't notice the East Coast bias where you are, but pretty much everyone out west does. It's absolutely stunning to me to hear how many people on the coasts think Denver's a little snow town.

Enough with the sob story.

The reason I think we've had a better offseason is that we've acquired more quality players than you. Donte Stallworth was pretty much a bust, Kelly Washington almost never sees the field, Wes Welker you vastly overpaid for, Kyle Brady is servicable, and I've lost track of who else you've signed. AD will be good, but I doubt he's going to single handedly win a championship either. I personally am not worried about him. We shut him down when we played Baltimore last year.

Good Lord, you sound like Dolphins fans last year. "We got Donte Culpepper this year and you guys lost Givens, therefore we're better than you."

Yeah, that worked out.

Graham was signed to block and catch, and why wouldn't he? He should vastly improve QB protection, which was a major problem since George"What's technique?"Foster was inserted back into the lineup. Travis Henry is a 1200 yard back running behind the totally average Titans line. His style was absolutely made for the ZBS. Our tepid running game is fixed, and we have quality depth in Mike Bell. Dre Bly and Champ Bailey are scary. Bill Belichick agrees with me. I don't know where you all got the idea that he sucks, but in the game I saw last year, he pretty much shut Torry Holt down. He'll abuse teams second recievers, especially here in the AFC West. When Eddie Kennison and Vincent Jackson are #1s in your division, you know you're fine with Champ and Bly. Getting Sauerbrun should vastly improve our field position, and we signed several special teams cover guys to help out. We added depth on our O and D lines.

We're looking good.

The Broncos had washed-up vet shopping spree this offseason, outside of the Bly trade and Graham signing. Travis Henry? Brandon Stokley? Alvin McKinley? Montrae Holland? Patrick Ramsey? Carlos Hall? David Terrell? Eddie Moore? Paul Smith?

Are you kidding me?

 

[Crowpointer]

Get a clue. NFLPA.org only lists base salaries, of which Shields' is $1.2 million. That doesn't take into account any of his signing bonus or any other bonuses or incentives. Trying to compare Shields' base salary to Hutchinson's is foolish.

Peyton Manning had a $665,000 base salary in 2005. Was he "underpaid?"



Enough with the sob story.



Good Lord, you sound like Dolphins fans last year. "We got Donte Culpepper this year and you guys lost Givens, therefore we're better than you."

Yeah, that worked out.



The Broncos had washed-up vet shopping spree this offseason, outside of the Bly trade and Graham signing. Travis Henry? Brandon Stokley? Alvin McKinley? Montrae Holland? Patrick Ramsey? Carlos Hall? David Terrell? Eddie Moore? Paul Smith?

Are you kidding me?

It's for Posts like this that Pats1 gets paid the big money around here. I believe that is game , set , match. See ya EvenDONK.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Get a clue. NFLPA.org only lists base salaries, of which Shields' is $1.2 million. That doesn't take into account any of his signing bonus or any other bonuses or incentives. Trying to compare Shields' base salary to Hutchinson's is foolish.

Peyton Manning had a $665,000 base salary in 2005. Was he "underpaid?"



Enough with the sob story.



Good Lord, you sound like Dolphins fans last year. "We got Donte Culpepper this year and you guys lost Givens, therefore we're better than you."

Yeah, that worked out.



The Broncos had washed-up vet shopping spree this offseason, outside of the Bly trade and Graham signing. Travis Henry? Brandon Stokley? Alvin McKinley? Montrae Holland? Patrick Ramsey? Carlos Hall? David Terrell? Eddie Moore? Paul Smith?

Are you kidding me?

Boy, Pats1, you really are good! I salute you!

Just for the record, for Evendelae's sake, I live out West, so that "East Coast" bias (why didn't he just call it a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"?) holds no sway here.

Judging from the posts on this thread by Donk fans, rather pathetic existence they eke out, huh?

Again, thanks for the post...

 

[Fixit]

How the hell has a thread about a departed punter gone over 100 posts?

 

[Miguel]

Here's the Chief's payroll for the '06 season:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamSalary?categoryId=67049

FWIW While it says that the table is for the 2006 season it is actually for the 2005 season.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

FWIW While it says that the table is for the 2006 season it is actually for the 2005 season.

I then stand corrected. I simply offered up what I'd found. Any source for updated numbers?

 

[Caspir]

Our teams have a rivalry. There's nothing wrong with that.

Maybe in your mind. The Broncos are irrelevant to the Patriots. You're not even the team we are concerned with most in your own division. You must be delusional.

And yet, he kept you in the AFCCG so your team could totally blow it in the second half....

How did "your" team's season end again? I can't seem to remember.

Keep throwing parties over the punter though. As I said, it will be one of the few things you can celebrate for the foreseeable future.

Why am I bothering with someone who actually thinks Denevr is the greatest city on the planet? You must never leave Colorado.

 

[evendelae]

Get a clue. NFLPA.org only lists base salaries, of which Shields' is $1.2 million. That doesn't take into account any of his signing bonus or any other bonuses or incentives. Trying to compare Shields' base salary to Hutchinson's is foolish.

Peyton Manning had a $665,000 base salary in 2005. Was he "underpaid?"



Enough with the sob story.



Good Lord, you sound like Dolphins fans last year. "We got Donte Culpepper this year and you guys lost Givens, therefore we're better than you."

Yeah, that worked out.



The Broncos had washed-up vet shopping spree this offseason, outside of the Bly trade and Graham signing. Travis Henry? Brandon Stokley? Alvin McKinley? Montrae Holland? Patrick Ramsey? Carlos Hall? David Terrell? Eddie Moore? Paul Smith?

Are you kidding me?

Paul Smith is an excellent special teams player, that's the only reason he's here. Travis Henry is a good back. You really can't debate that. The others are for depth (yeah, we're starting Patrick Ramsey) and camp fodder. They're all making pennies.

Uh, yeah, none of the players we signed are coming off major surgery. And I seem to recall the Dolphins shutting you out?

East coast bias is not bs. I'm sure Patriot Fervor doesn't notice it because he follows the Pats. Ask a Chiefs, Raiders, Broncos, Arizona, etc. fan. We seem to be a "flyover zone" and thusly noty important unless you're taking your vacation in Aspen. (which sucks balls as a ski town, btw)

 

[pats1]

Paul Smith is an excellent special teams player, that's the only reason he's here. Travis Henry is a good back. You really can't debate that. The others are for depth (yeah, we're starting Patrick Ramsey) and camp fodder. They're all making pennies.

You've gone from "we've acquired more quality players than you" to "they're camp fodder."

Great job.

Uh, yeah, none of the players we signed are coming off major surgery.

The comparison stands irrelevant of Culpepper's status. It's this flawed syllogistic logic the Jets used in 2005 and the Dolphins used in 2006.

The Jets believed that Nugent over Brien would mean AFC Championship over Divisional playoffs. They ended up out of the playoffs and with the 4th overall pick in 2006.

The Dolphins believed Culpepper over Frerotte would mean at least 10-6 over 9-7, the Dolphins' finish 1 game back in 2005. They ended up 6-10 and with the 9th overall pick in 2007.

My point? It's never as simple as a team's finish plus offseason additions minus offseason subtractions = a team's finish in the following year.

And I seem to recall the Dolphins shutting you out?

They also beat the Pats in 2004. Your smack talk is weaker than the Broncos' recent playoff record.

East coast bias is not bs. I'm sure Patriot Fervor doesn't notice it because he follows the Pats. Ask a Chiefs, Raiders, Broncos, Arizona, etc. fan. We seem to be a "flyover zone" and thusly noty important unless you're taking your vacation in Aspen. (which sucks balls as a ski town, btw)

Do you want a medal? A tissue? A bubble bath?