(Sort of OT) Question for former IBWTers...

[VrabelJr]

All of the above. I can appreciate him and be grateful for the good he did, but also not be blind to his weaknesses.

This is it. Everyone is operating at two sides of extreme. We’re all flawed humans. Some more than others like @TheRainMaker or @MahomestoKelce.

You have to get a lot of things consecutively right to build a perennially competitive team. The biggest fault is that we didn’t go into rebuild mode right after the 2018-19 Super Bowl when you see how many guys we lost the next two seasons. I’m sure doing that would make BB look cold as hell but in hindsight it would have been right. That 2019-20 team was nothing but paper tigers.

 

[VrabelJr]

Always admire and have respect for Bill. At the same time, I'll always be angry about the benching of Butler in a game where they couldn't get off the field (Eagles were 10/16 on third down and they were 2/2 on 4th down with a touchdown) and New England essentially needed one stop to win given the monster game Brady had that day.

Could have benched him for a half, which would have been bad enough. But to not even put him out there in the second half - especially given how the game was going - was unfathomable.

I'll never forgive him for that.

Ever.

I put that game on Patricia. Eagles averaged over 6 yards per carry and The their route trees made our secondary look stupid. Corey Clements had an eighth of his entire career yards in that game. That Philly team was just talented at the right positions and Foles caught fire.

Butler would have only made a tiny difference but not enough to win.

 

[raduray]

It wasn’t the coaching.
It was multiple years of consistently bad GM judgment.
Bad drafts.
Bad trades.
Bad free agency decisions.

To the extent that hiring the coordinators is the head coach's responsibility, the Patricia/Judge decision is a major coaching fail.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This is it. Everyone is operating at two sides of extreme. We’re all flawed humans. Some more than others like @TheRainMaker or @MahomestoKelce.

You have to get a lot of things consecutively right to build a perennially competitive team. The biggest fault is that we didn’t go into rebuild mode right after the 2018-19 Super Bowl when you see how many guys we lost the next two seasons. I’m sure doing that would make BB look cold as hell but in hindsight it would have been right. That 2019-20 team was nothing but paper tigers.

Your obsession with me is getting quite creepy. We've never interacted on this forum until the day you mentioned something about Edelman and have been following me around since. You need to get over that.

 

[VrabelJr]

Your obsession with me is getting quite creepy. We've never interacted on this forum until the day you of what you mentioned about Edelman and have been following me around since. You need to get over that.

Don’t take it personally. You just have a good combination of awful ideas and a memorable username

 

[raduray]

The benching of Butler was the first time I thought Belicheck's coaching decision was the reason they lost a game. Despite his mantra of always doing what's best for the team, that decision was clearly more of a personal nature.

Chasing Brady out of town was the last straw of my trusting in Bill

Benching Wes Welker for the first part of a playoff game because of a foot fetish joke was an early warning for me.

 

[VrabelJr]

Benching Wes Welker for the first part of a game because of a foot fetish joke was an early warning for me.

He won 3 Super Bowls after that

 

[raduray]

I put that game on Patricia. Eagles averaged over 6 yards per carry and The their route trees made our secondary look stupid. Corey Clements had an eighth of his entire career yards in that game. That Philly team was just talented at the right positions and Foles caught fire.

Butler would have only made a tiny difference but not enough to win.

All we needed was one stop on 3rd down. One frigging stop. And nothing else was working.

 

[Hyped]

- Not sure we can completely blame BB for the Butler benching. And even if it was 100% a Belichick decision, we also need to praise him for benching Kyle Arrington in Superbowl XLIX.

- He did not have more influence on Brady's decision to bolt to Tampa than personnel (or lack thereof) did.

- As bad as Patricia and Judge were in 2022, they were BETTER than Bill O'Brien. Something that doesn't get talked about enough in these parts, IMO.

- Yeah, his drafting has been bad in recent years with outside exceptions of guys like Barmore, Stevenson, the Jones kids in the secondary, Gonzo, etc.... Again, he has also found guys in the back of the draft and from the UDFA pool. Free agency/trades have been so-so...except for Judon which has worked out well.

 

[HSanders]

imo bb's worst call was not re-signing deion branch after 2005. he likely was basing his decision on whatever offer seattle gave him not being worth it for deion in the physical sense of his performance. but i think having skill players a team can trust and who have the mental ability to grasp that offense should get a bit of a premium provided performance is there. they're not plug n play. we saw that with ocho. if they have deion in 06,i would bet they would have been playing in sb 41. and they would have won. that chi team was...

 

[Tunescribe]

Why is **** Vermeil chasing Ted Johnson?

Consider yourself lucky. You could've gotten one of these instead.

 

[Patriot Missile]

You coach a team for 20 plus years and you have multiple infractions that you can point out. I’d say the good outweighed the bad by a country mile but that’s just me.

I’m ok that they parted ways I guess. But I hate to read here from posters discrediting the man and saying it was all Brady and it absolutely wasn’t.

Egregious Butler benching, yes, we may have won that game and a possible 3 peat.

Brady’s departure, I don’t think it’s as black and white as some make it out to be

Bad drafting, yes it’s obvious he has been bad in recent years.

Patricia and Judge, undisputed bad. Gave him the benefit of the doubt at first. Snake eyes.

Mac sucks and was the final nail in the coffin BB went down with the ship.couldn’t hide those weaknesses after year 1. Has no touch and lacks NFL arm strength to throw short sideline passes. Defense’s pin their ears back and wait for the right time to jump the route. No way BB ruined him, he just doesn’t have it.

Despite the above, there are plenty of game plans during the regular season and playoffs where BB won the day. He’s the greatest ever and may have been able to turn this show around had he been given the chance. However, we’re moving on, hopefully to better days and to a up to date offense.

Exciting times for sure.

 

[Tunescribe]

You coach a team for 20 plus years and you have multiple infractions that you can point out. I’d say the good outweighed the bad by a country mile but that’s just me.

I’m ok that they parted ways I guess. But I hate to read here from posters discrediting the man and saying it was all Brady and it absolutely wasn’t.

Egregious Butler benching, yes, we may have won that game and a possible 3 peat.

Brady’s departure, I don’t think it’s as black and white as some make it out to be

Bad drafting, yes it’s obvious he has been bad in recent years.

Patricia and Judge, undisputed bad. Gave him the benefit of the doubt at first. Snake eyes.

Mac sucks and was the final nail in the coffin BB went down with the ship.couldn’t hide those weaknesses after year 1. Has no touch and lacks NFL arm strength to throw short sideline passes. Defense’s pin their ears back and wait for the right time to jump the route. No way BB ruined him, he just doesn’t have it.

Despite the above, there are plenty of game plans during the regular season and playoffs where BB won the day. He’s the greatest ever and may have been able to turn this show around had he been given the chance. However, we’re moving on, hopefully to better days and to a up to date offense.

Exciting times for sure.

Excellent post. In summary, BB's shelf life here expired but the sheer length of his tenure and many accomplishments en route deserve our respect and gratitude. Uncertain times ahead but hopefully there will be much to celebrate.

 

[venecol]

Bill's interpersonal skills have always been known what did you call oh brilliant one?

That his methods no longer worked with the younger modern players. That he couldn't reach them. Called this and was called a hater. It was obvious.

 

[venecol]

Lol, thanks for proving my point.

He’s just letting us know he was first in line hating the despicable BB.

 

[Tunescribe]

That his methods no longer worked with the younger modern players. That he couldn't reach them. Called this and was called a hater. It was obvious.

Lol, thanks for proving my point.

Oh stop it. You have absolutely hated Belichick for years. Now it's that you were unfairly labeled for making a "shrewd observation"?

 

[signbabybrady]

That his methods no longer worked with the younger modern players. That he couldn't reach them. Called this and was called a hater. It was obvious.

If it makes you feel better bravo.

I still choose to believe that there are players who would thrive under his tough love and more importantly that would put in the time and effort to learn his schemes properly.

Just because the first attempt post Brady failed doesn't mean no one out there couldn't have worked. I think the league is being foolish to get scared off by his age, schemes, and "interpersonal skills" fact is when he gets it right or more accurately when the right guys like Brady/Jules/Amendolla/White run it properly it wins Superbowls I don't know why everyone is ignoring that to chase the next young coach when that option is always there but there will only be one Bill. Us included.

I know things have barely gotten started under Mayo and he deserves a few years in his own right but isn't there a part of you that is already wondering if maybe we should have let Bill try and cook one more time with another QB instead of rushing to hand the franchise to a bunch of first timers. There's always some hot trend or scheme we could chase a year or two from now.

 

[Tunescribe]

. If it makes you feel better bravo.

I still choose to believe that there are players who would thrive under his tough love and more importantly that would put in the time and effort to learn his schemes properly.

Just because the first attempt post Brady failed doesn't mean no one out there couldn't have worked. I think the league is being foolish to get scared off by his age, schemes, and "interpersonal skills" fact is when he gets it right or more accurately when the right guys like Brady/Jules/Amendolla/White run it properly it wins Superbowls I don't know why everyone is ignoring that to chase the next young coach when that option is always there but there will only be one Bill. Us included.

I know things have barely gotten started under Mayo and he deserves a few years in his own right but isn't there a part of you that is already wondering if maybe we should have let Bill try and cook one more time with another QB instead of rushing to hand the franchise to a bunch of first timers. There's always some hot trend or scheme we could chase a year or two from now.

Of course what you say makes perfect sense. But you are addressing a guy who hated Belichick the minute Brady left and hasn't let up wanting him to fail.

That BB didn't muster a better record last season toward to smoother transition after one or two more seasons is a damn shame. He had to go, though, considering how badly the roster has fared. I think we'd be feeling better at least in the short term if Kraft handed the program off to someone like Vrabel, but as you say Mayo deserves our backing and patience.

 

[venecol]

If it makes you feel better bravo.

I still choose to believe that there are players who would thrive under his tough love and more importantly that would put in the time and effort to learn his schemes properly.

That's no longer true.

Just because the first attempt post Brady failed doesn't mean no one out there couldn't have worked. I think the league is being foolish to get scared off by his age, schemes, and "interpersonal skills" fact is when he gets it right or more accurately when the right guys like Brady/Jules/Amendolla/White run it properly it wins Superbowls I don't know why everyone is ignoring that to chase the next young coach when that option is always there but there will only be one Bill. Us included.

Because the next young coach has proven to be successful at motivating the young players. Bill has not been able to do that anymore w/o a Brady in the locker room to translate Bill's message.

I know things have barely gotten started under Mayo and he deserves a few years in his own right but isn't there a part of you that is already wondering if maybe we should have let Bill try and cook one more time with another QB instead of rushing to hand the franchise to a bunch of first timers. There's always some hot trend or scheme we could chase a year or two from now.

No. Bill should've been fired last year. He was given one more chance and things got much worse. Do you think it's a coincidence that no team offered him a job? I get that he did great things here during the dynasty. All good things must come to an end. It's over. Let it go. Support Mayo.

 

[Wax Frog]

Consider yourself lucky. You could've gotten one of these instead.

...and then there's the Vile and Despicable edition!