SOME OPTIONS

[mgteich]

You aren’t getting a qb worth a third for a third.

Perhaps it would take a 2nd to get someone to match those available after the top 5. However, I don't any of them were worth a 3rd.

It seems that pretty good prospects have been available for a 2nd or 3rd in the past.

 

[Ring 6]

Perhaps it would take a 2nd to get someone to match those available after the top 5. However, I don't any of them were worth a 3rd.

It seems that pretty good prospects have been available for a 2nd or 3rd in the past.

Who is going to trade us a qb that we feel us worth a second or 3rd. Please give me the list of all the qbs who are going to be cut that we should trade a second or third for to get them before they are cut.

 

[dustcover]

As memory serves me, I recall the Steelers cutting a QB who they drafted in the 9th round. They deemed him expendable, and he was released before the season began as the odd man out among four quarterbacks trying to fill three spots. The head coach had made up his mind and thought he was not smart enough to quarterback an NFL team and thus was not given any snaps in practice with the Steelers.
The Colts went ahead and signed this discarded QB. And, said QB went on to have what many would say was a very solid career.
So don’t disqualify a player simply because he doesn’t fit in a particular team’s plans.
And by the way, the discarded QB to whom I’m referring went by the name ‘Johnny U’.

 

[RDS11]

Who is going to trade us a qb that we feel us worth a second or 3rd. Please give me the list of all the qbs who are going to be cut that we should trade a second or third for to get them before they are cut.

I'm I missing something, or Garoppolo got traded for a 2nd rounder just 7 months ago ? If the 49ers were able to get him for a 2nd rounder, why wouldn't be possible to get another QB who might not fit into another team's plan for a 2nd or a 3rd ?

Matt Schaub price tag for the Texans was a little bit more than a 2nd rounder (it was for 2 second rounders and a switch of 1sr rounders). Matt Hasselbeck trade to the Seahawks also involved a switch of 1st round pick (the Hawks traded down from the 10th pick o the 17th) plus a 3rd. Both guys were going to be starters for their new team. So again, why trading for a backup with upside would cost that much more ? The only thing I could think of, is that other teams might be afraid to trade with Belichick; if he sees something in a player, the other team might be scared to trade the player away. But other than that, a backup shouldn't cost that much.

Let's assume the Pats didn't want to carry 4 QBs back and 2000 (and let's assume the GM was still Grier and Belichik wasn't with the team), what would have been the cost to acquire Brady ? I'm not saying there's another Brady out there available for a late pick, but there's certainly another player who might be better than where he was drafted who isn't given a fair chance by its current team.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm I missing something, or Garoppolo got traded for a 2nd rounder just 7 months ago ? If the 49ers were able to get him for a 2nd rounder, why wouldn't be possible to get another QB who might not fit into another team's plan for a 2nd or a 3rd ?

So show me that guy. I claim there is none out there right now including one who had to be traded because he can’t get in the field and his contract is up.

Matt Schaub price tag for the Texans was a little bit more than a 2nd rounder (it was for 2 second rounders and a switch of 1sr rounders). Matt Hasselbeck trade to the Seahawks also involved a switch of 1st round pick (the Hawks traded down from the 10th pick o the 17th) plus a 3rd. Both guys were going to be starters for their new team. So again, why trading for a backup with upside would cost that much more ? The only thing I could think of, is that other teams might be afraid to trade with Belichick; if he sees something in a player, the other team might be scared to trade the player away. But other than that, a backup shouldn't cost that much.

See above

Let's assume the Pats didn't want to carry 4 QBs back and 2000 (and let's assume the GM was still Grier and Belichik wasn't with the team), what would have been the cost to acquire Brady ? I'm not saying there's another Brady out there available for a late pick, but there's certainly another player who might be better than where he was drafted who isn't given a fair chance by its current team.

Again the comment was a qb who is gong to be cut that we should grab in a trade before that happens. None of your examples fit that.

 

[IcyPatriot]

We shall see as the roster evolves between now and opening day. Let's respect the process.

yes ... some are too eager to see the 53.

A few good vets will be cut and find their way here.

A few of our UDFA's will knock vets out.

 

[DW Toys]

Last year, Belichick drafted Rivers and Wise.

This year, he acquired Clayborne. That is more reasonable than passing on sompnee you want to draft someone who you don't think will work out.

I'm fine with the first 3 choices, and the assessment that the rest weren't what he wanted.

True post.
I for one am a fan of trading for Kendricks. We Drafted an UDFA LB Bentley and Sam, who might have a shot. They had a chance to get Jewell bu traded out and the Broncos took him next pick. Jewell would have started for us.

Our biggest need was pass rush we resolved in FA and getting back Hightower and Rivers

Second issue might be interior line/MLB with Malcom Brown being very mediocre and using Van Noy who got bulldozed up the middle in the Super Bowl. Shelton should help. This UDFA John Atkins form Georgia might help as well. He was Draftable.

TE we got two camp bodies. Nothing special

QB? Etling? Camp body and arm.
I still say trade for Lynch while the Broncos are down on him. Was at least as good as the crop of QBs in this Draft.

DW Toys

 

[Joker]

Malcolm Brown isn't "very mediocre"....that's just not true. He grades out just ABOVE average. You won't have him to shoot arrows at anymore anyway. He's entering the Chandler Jones area of his contract. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's traded during the summer. Belechick always tries to get rid of a player and his contract a year early rather than a year late..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Malcolm Brown isn't "very mediocre"....that's just not true. He grades out just ABOVE average. You won't have him to shoot arrows at anymore anyway. He's entering the Chandler Jones area of his contract. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's traded during the summer. Belechick always tries to get rid of a player and his contract a year early rather than a year late..

I don't see them doling out $7m for him.

 

[Tony2046]

Malcolm Brown isn't "very mediocre"....that's just not true. He grades out just ABOVE average. You won't have him to shoot arrows at anymore anyway. He's entering the Chandler Jones area of his contract. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's traded during the summer. Belechick always tries to get rid of a player and his contract a year early rather than a year late..

I don't disagree but I hope not.

 

[RDS11]

So show me that guy. I claim there is none out there right now including one who had to be traded because he can’t get in the field and his contract is up.

That's an idiotic answer. We're not even in May yet, the draft ended yesterday, the minicamps are not even underway, this is not a situation that would be happening now, but rather something the team could explore in August.

Again the comment was a qb who is gong to be cut that we should grab in a trade before that happens. None of your examples fit that.

Brady is exactly that. In the end the Pats kept him because Belichick saw something, but how many teams keep 4 QBs for a full year ? How many other teams would have kept him ?

Otherwise : Mark Brunell, who was buried on the Packers depth chart, was traded for a 3rd because he couldn't get past Detmer. Kurt Warner, who didn't make the Packers because he couldn't beat Favre, Brunell and Detmer, got cut and could have been available for a trade in the way mgteich envision. Jeff Blake was cut from the Jets before having a couple of good seasons with the Bengals. John Unitas, cut from the Steelers. Heck, we just lost the Super Bowl to Nick Foles, who was cut by the Rams and the Chiefs. That's just on top of my head...

 

[WaterfallJumper]

That's an idiotic answer. We're not even in May yet, the draft ended yesterday, the minicamps are not even underway, this is not a situation that would be happening now, but rather something the team could explore in August.



Brady is exactly that. In the end the Pats kept him because Belichick saw something, but how many teams keep 4 QBs for a full year ? How many other teams would have kept him ?

Otherwise : Mark Brunell, who was buried on the Packers depth chart, was traded for a 3rd because he couldn't get past Detmer. Kurt Warner, who didn't make the Packers because he couldn't beat Favre, Brunell and Detmer, got cut and could have been available for a trade in the way mgteich envision. Jeff Blake was cut from the Jets before having a couple of good seasons with the Bengals. John Unitas, cut from the Steelers. Heck, we just lost the Super Bowl to Nick Foles, who was cut by the Rams and the Chiefs. That's just on top of my head...

Something that happens every once in a great while is a good story because the players beat the odds -- but there's a reason you have to go back decades just to get a few decent examples. The fact is that the odds are heavily stacked against this scenario. We can't hope a good QB falls into our laps on the cheap, and confuse that with an actual plan.

I agree with Andy that currently there aren't any QBs who are worth the trade. Appealing to the Jimmy G example is pretty flimsy, too, since there were extenuating circumstances for cap and contact reasons. Most teams don't have an heir apparent on an expiring contact backing up the goat who still wants to play several more years. Unique situation.

 

[Ring 6]

That's an idiotic answer. We're not even in May yet, the draft ended yesterday, the minicamps are not even underway, this is not a situation that would be happening now, but rather something the team could explore in August.

Once again I seriously doubt our qb of the future is a guy ready to be cut by another team that we trade for so he can sit 3 more yrars before playing.

Brady is exactly that. In the end the Pats kept him because Belichick saw something, but how many teams keep 4 QBs for a full year ? How many other teams would have kept him ?

Otherwise : Mark Brunell, who was buried on the Packers depth chart, was traded for a 3rd because he couldn't get past Detmer. Kurt Warner, who didn't make the Packers because he couldn't beat Favre, Brunell and Detmer, got cut and could have been available for a trade in the way mgteich envision. Jeff Blake was cut from the Jets before having a couple of good seasons with the Bengals. John Unitas, cut from the Steelers. Heck, we just lost the Super Bowl to Nick Foles, who was cut by the Rams and the Chiefs. That's just on top of my head...

Jeff Blake lol.

None of those guys sat for 3 years.

Should we build the list of all the QBs who were cut that never became anything?

No one is saying give up looking for a qb, which started with a Etling. But to think there is some future great out there that another team is ready to give away is silly. To think we would trade a 2 or 3 so that guy can sit in the bench fit 3 yrars is silly. (As was the idea we were using a 1 or even packaging 2 of them to trade up. Just because people who didn’t know what they were talking about thought that doesn’t make it real)
I’m all for Etling having competition but the means mgteich brings up is about the least likely way the heir apparent arrives.

 

[Sciz]

Why are so many people obsessed with an overpaid linebacker that the Eagles took off the field in many obvious passing situations? After six NFL seasons, I think it’s time to give up on him having untapped potential as a coverage linebacker just because he ran a 4.47 40.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think Shelton, brown and Dorset have fifth year options we can pick up.

I can see picking up brown’s. No on Dorset. And Shelton is an unknown.

 

[supafly]

I think Shelton, brown and Dorset have fifth year options we can pick up.

I can see picking up brown’s. No on Dorset. And Shelton is an unknown.

I say 50/50 on both Brown and Shelton. No way on Dorsett. Have to make the decisions soon, IIRC. I believe it’s within the next week or so.

 

[luuked]

I still say trade for Lynch while the Broncos are down on him. Was at least as good as the crop of QBs in this Draft.

He is worse than Osweiler.

 

[maineman209]

I say 50/50 on both Brown and Shelton. No way on Dorsett. Have to make the decisions soon, IIRC. I believe it’s within the next week or so.

May 3rd?

Seems to me that, at about $7.1M apiece (not at all out of bounds for a good DL), it might be worth picking up the options on both Brown and Shelton (even though Shelton is an unknown, at this point). Doing so would give the Pats control through 2019 for the two leading candidates to anchor the interior DL, and the opportunity to negotiate a longer-term deal with one or both ... or neither.

Those $7.1M 2019 cap hits are guaranteed only for injury until the beginning of the new league year in 2019, and don't become fully-guaranteed after the Pats have seen how they perform for a full season. The options can be rescinded, as long as the player isn't injured.

The Dorsett situation is significantly different. Not only is his 5th year salary amount significantly higher relative to is positional value with the Pats, there's a significant chance that he may not make the 2018 roster, given all the competition he currently faces.

 

[maineman209]

I don't see them doling out $7m for him.

Picking up Brown's 2019 option right now isn't "doling out" anything - yet. That $7M doesn't become fully-guaranteed until sometime next February, IIRC, and can be rescinded before then (as long as he isn't injured). What picking up his option does accomplish is to extend the time frame of the Pats control over him until after they've seen how he performs working in tandem with Shelton for a full season. It seems to me that the opportunity advantage to that is worth taking the risk that Brown gets significantly injured.

In any case, I don't base my evaluation of Brown's performance as an interior DL in the Pats scheme on the way that other interior DL have performed in other schemes. I think Brown's role and requirements are significantly different from those others and that he fulfills both very well. To some extent, the ongoing criticism of Brown reminds me of the criticism of Nink during his first three seasons. He wasn't sufficiently "dynamic" as an edge-rusher, which was true, but irrelevant, since that wasn't the extent of his job in the Pats scheme

 

[maineman209]

The Patriots QB need is "young guy who can potentially take over from Brady once he retires," not "functional backup QB." Hoyer, with a decent team around him, already covers the latter.

Hoyer also turns 33 in October. Even if a 24-year-old's ceiling is only "Hoyer", he's probably worth a relatively small investment. Having a young quality backup who already knows the system certainly won't hurt any "Brady replacement" who may be acquired later.