Some OL chatter

[rkarp1]

I think the point here is that with the people already there we don't need a massive revamp. They could use more consistency, of course, especially given the constant moving around because of injuries.

But I do think this falls on the QB himself mostly. I already mentioned how he curls out right into the outside edge rush multiple times. He runs right into the path of a rusher who is already locked down as we saw last week. I've defended Brown in another post for "grabbing at air" because we are now taking 9 step drops and there is no way Brown can hang with an edge rusher 5-10 yards downfield. It's beyond him. That's not what we have him for. I did at the same time criticize him for the inside move he blew on run blocking.

So there are OL errors, and we always see OL errors even in the best of times on offense, BUT the repeated lack of a QB commanding the pocket presents huge issues for the entire OL. You can't have a QB uncomfortable in every spot, unwilling to step into the pocket, a guy who CANNOT hurt you when you blitz because he will always cower and throw off his back foot when you come within 3 yards of him. Every defense knows that if you breathe on him, he will do something stupid, and that only encourages them to get a semblance of pressure on him. He's not going to step up into the pocket and reset, so by all means, come at him from the edge. He's not willing to stand in there, so bull rush your guy even if you don't get a hand (or anywhere near) the QB.

QBs always make their OLs. I'm not asking for Tom Brady here. I'm asking for a Bailey Zappe with an NFL average level of accuracy/arm ability.

honestly. I do not care who is the teams QB. just want improved play.
I have to think if Zappe showed anything in the past 2 games, or even over the summer, he would be playing

 

[upstater1]

Its also about knowing where the QB will be.

Absolutely, this is the part that needs to be emphasized a lot. It wasn't only Scarnecchia that made our lines better but also Brady being able to move around the pocket, and the tackles knowing they only had to cheat to the inside, while routing edge rushers downfield. The people that gave Brady problems were the quick strong DTs that could push the middle of the pocket. The Giants made a living of this in the 2 Super Bowls.

I'm not saying we need a Brady. Just a guy that will have consistency back there.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

I've been inclined to do the same but if I watch individual OL to see if their personal technique is improving, I'm not seeing it. Scar used to really focus on this with the idea that if you're being personally overwhelmed due to poor technique you'll have a hard time integrating into the larger OL scheme. One example: we stink at interior runs. Watch OG pad level. Is there any drive or are the guards being stood up at contact?

The thing that's difficult with Scar comparisons (besides him being the best) is that there were way more padded practices to coach-up not quite good enough OLmen and get the overall operation on synch against live opposition than there is now with the changes to the CBA that became effective just after he retired. This, of course, means that we have to draft and sign more developed talent on the line than we might have had to just four years ago.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Thuney was a mistake.

Why are we talking about Shaq and Karras?

They are horrible. I mean, ask a Cincy fan about Karras. What a disaster.

Here's someone who is 10x better than both: Hjalte Froholdt.

froholdt looked bad here

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

Absolutely, this is the part that needs to be emphasized a lot. It wasn't only Scarnecchia that made our lines better but also Brady being able to move around the pocket, and the tackles knowing they only had to cheat to the inside, while routing edge rushers downfield. The people that gave Brady problems were the quick strong DTs that could push the middle of the pocket. The Giants made a living of this in the 2 Super Bowls.

I'm not saying we need a Brady. Just a guy that will have consistency back there.

i agree it all needs to work in sync, the qb and o-line need to be on the same page not only regarding blitzers etc but also drop back yards etc.

 

[upstater1]

froholdt looked bad here

Some rookies develop

 

[IcyPatriot]

David Andrews, Trent Brown have taken ownership of Patriots’ struggling O-line

New England’s veterans are stepping up.

www.patspulpit.com

 

[VrabelJr]

It’s wild to think in week 1 with two rookies at Guard it looked like all of our concerns were for nothing. To now a few weeks later the line has been a disaster against lesser teams. Something is broken but also highly likely to be fixable.

 

[SteveBsFan]

This is the bottom line. The measurement for protection rate sets the standard at 3.0 seconds to deliver the ball without being pressured or tackled. He's still getting that protection over 80% of the time. So if Mac Jones can't get the ball out consistently in under the 3.0 seconds mark maybe he just doesn't have what it takes to be an NFL starter.

That's 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, 3 Mississippi. Ball needs to be OUT!

You need to do the film room prep and know exactly what is happening pre-snap so you already know what the defense is doing and where you might need to go with the ball, as the ball is snapped the QB needs to read quickly how the play is developing, who's open, if he needs to check down from the primary target, etc.

Mac Jones needs to be more decisive with his throws and anticipate better because he certainly doesn't have some kind of rocket arm where he can throw across the grain. We saw him get punished multiple times by throwing floaters that got picked off by the defense.

And someone on Twitter today shows Mac is second in basically sack avoidance. And we know he’s not running. So if he’s not running and not being sacked, he’s getting the ball out fast.

The obvious problem is he’s making dumb decisions on a huge chunk of those or just inaccurate so short catches remain short catches (as opposed to large YAC because he was leading the receiver)

Those are the small differences that differentiate average qb from stars. Any d1 qb can hit open men when they have plenty of protection against slower defenders. The stars are the guys who can read a defense, notice it’s a zone cover, notice a guy sneaking in to blitz and then hot route a receiver to go just beyond the attacking defender to exploit that.

Manning didn’t necessarily get a better arm. He had a great arm, it’s why he was drafted first. What he got better at over the years was those duties as qb to make the adjustments needed. It’s why he had a mediocre rookie year but phenomenal career.

Mac needs to take the Brady approach and win with his mind until his arm can catch up. Brady has an incredible football IQ and I believe he was far quicker at reading defenses than even Manning. Is Mac smart enough? We will find out by the end of the season!

He won’t have many more tries unless he snaps out of whatever funk he’s in

 

[SteveBsFan]

It’s wild to think in week 1 with two rookies at Guard it looked like all of our concerns were for nothing. To now a few weeks later the line has been a disaster against lesser teams. Something is broken but also highly likely to be fixable.

Didn’t we notice something like that with Dante?

We all remember his absence and the line was really bad during that time. But then he basically took the same line (Solder, Andrews, Mason, Cannon) and coached the **** out of them and we noticed a significant improvement.

Obviously Dante is not walking through that door but hopefully what actually is wrong with the line ends up to be fixable via coaching…. And coaching gets better after this “reset”.

It’s doubtful but stranger things have happened. ‍

 

[State]

This is objective. Not opinion.

But Anderson’s bad stars are screwed by the boneheaded decision to have him appear in a game at RT. He is strictly a LT.

If Klemm had more ability as a coach, he’d be pushing for Anderson at LT and Trent Brown at RT.

 

[Sciz]

Didn’t we notice something like that with Dante?

We all remember his absence and the line was really bad during that time. But then he basically took the same line (Solder, Andrews, Mason, Cannon) and coached the **** out of them and we noticed a significant improvement.

Obviously Dante is not walking through that door but hopefully what actually is wrong with the line ends up to be fixable via coaching…. And coaching gets better after this “reset”.

It’s doubtful but stranger things have happened. ‍

Yes, but also health. Cannon, in particular, really struggled while playing through turf toe in 2015. He was 2nd Team All Pro in 2016 when he was healthy again.

 

[rkarp1]

Thuney was a mistake.

Why are we talking about Shaq and Karras?

They are horrible. I mean, ask a Cincy fan about Karras. What a disaster.

Here's someone who is 10x better than both: Hjalte Froholdt.

Karras played really well here. he also played both G positions, and C if called on. he was very capable and dependable. he left at 28 years old for essentially $6m apy. they are paying Reiff $5m.

Shaq was playing at a pro bowl level and is at approx $9m apy. he was also 28 years old when he left. his snap counts have been in the high 90's every season. the team kept Wynn at $10m.

Hjalte Froholdt is playing C at a very high level. the team drafted a C this year in the 3rd rd.

the decision making and forward thinking the past 3-5 seasons has been very un Patriot like

 

[upstater1]

This is objective. Not opinion.

But Anderson’s bad stars are screwed by the boneheaded decision to have him appear in a game at RT. He is strictly a LT.

If Klemm had more ability as a coach, he’d be pushing for Anderson at LT and Trent Brown at RT.

This includes all 3 games of the preseason.

 

[captain stone]

I think we'd miss out on Andrews or Mapu with Dawand.

So?

Mapu, the Patriots are on record as trying to trade back because they knew they were reaching there. But he was clearly a guy they wanted over Andrews.

But ****tsdirt traded-down with Carolina just four picks later...

I read an article on Andrews that said other teams considered him the top C prospect and they were going to get him in the 4th. This was intel the Patriots knew about.

I never read anything anywhere that considered Jake the possibly Newest Fake that highly compared to who was still available... And I mean No-Where.

 

[captain stone]

perhaps

In any case, Bill wasn't willing to wait 10 picks and hope that Andrews was there at 117.

Proof positive of Billy's utter ****ing Cluelessness.

 

[mgteich]

Proof positive of Billy's utter ****ing Cluelessness.

yes, we understand that your are much more skilled as a drafter than those that work for the patriots.

 

[upstater1]

So?




But ****tsdirt traded-down with Carolina just four picks later...




I never read anything anywhere that considered Jake the possibly Newest Fake that highly compared to who was still available... And I mean No-Where.

Reiss wrote about how they were on the phones trying to trade down.

I remembered where I saw the stuff on Andrews. It was on the NFLN secondary network, and that night NFL scouts were running the channels draft broadcast. The scout said he talked to people who told him Andrews was definitely going at some point in the 4th round.

 

[captain stone]

And the kicker we took is 50% on field goals...

...While the one we traded-away is 100% on them.

 

[captain stone]

froholdt looked bad here

He only played 8 games here, all in 2020, with zero starts & few snaps... I don't know who was signed/promoted/activated to the 53 that he needed to be waived, but the least Bill could've done with Frodo was continue to train him at Center to see if he could've salvage anything outta the 4th-rounder used on him instead of somebody such as OG Ben Powers, TE Foster Moreau or DT Greg Gaines.