So Which Pieces on Offense/Defense Are a Part of the Future?

[Joey007]

It was more 2008-2010, with 2009 being the standout year of realizing the Patriots of the 00s had completed their lifecycle. That 2007 team was completely dismantled within a couple of years, which would be normal for teams except there were so many multi-ring contributors gone. Many of these guys were near their prime around 2007 and then had nothing left just two years later. Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Warren, Seymour, Colvin, Thomas, all with incredibly quick declines. It was mainly the defense that time around, but the offense failed to reload as well.

This team resembles that 2009 team in many ways, with inconsistency, lack of discipline, and spotty talent. Many players will likely follow the same path as the 10s lifecycle comes full circle. Looking at ages and other signs of decline: McCourty, Chung, Hightower, Gronkowski, Edelman, Amendola (already crossed off). A lot of key players will be leaving. Patriots need to really nail some drafts if TB12 is going to get his hands on one more, barring an unlikely postseason involving lot of luck.

Well I’ll say this. If we take care of business the last two weeks, and Houston finds a way to lose one of their last two, then anything can happen.

 

[Joey007]

Dax Raymond of Utah State...

I’m for it. But it’s doubtful we get much instant impact from a rookie TE. Which is why more than one should be added.

 

[ivanvamp]

Like which young players are the ones we need to build around? Which ones are not?

Seems to be very few blue chip players on this team.

Offense
Keepers: Brady, Gordon, Edelman, Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Michel, Develin, White, Burkhead

Movers: Hogan, Allen

Tweeners: Gronk, Dorsett, Hollister, Waddle, Patterson


Defense
Keepers: Flowers, Hightower, Van Noy, Bentley, McCourty, McCourty, Chung, Harmon, Jackson, JJones, Wise, Rivers, McClellan, Melifonwu, Dawson, Crossen, Gilmore

Movers: Rowe, Shelton, Simon, Roberts, Clayborn

Tweeners: Brown

 

[ivanvamp]

Gronk isn't toast. He's not GRONK, but he's still 6'6" with a huge catch radius, great hands, and is a great blocker. He's an ideal second tight end and still a starting caliber TE in the league. No doubt. He's not GRONK though, and this team is kind of predicated on him being GRONK.

Might be time to redesign the offense. Either get another stud TE and let Gronk be the second TE (with pay consistent with that role), or move to a more WR/RB centric offense, like they had back when their TEs were Wiggins or Watson.

The question is, is Gronk willing to be paid what a "normal" starting TE, or even quality #2 TE, is worth these days? I doubt it.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

I really don’t see Brown as a part of the team after this year. They’ve actually used him as a 3-tech significantly this year and he’s still getting driven 5 yards into the defensive backfield against the run. Can’t have that. He’s gone and so is Shelton. I think they’ll keep Guy and use him in more of a rotational role, which is where he’s best used.

I like Guy a lot and they have a lot of holes (2DT/2TE/WR/LB/ED) and would no use draft capital to upgrade him. As for Brown I think they will retain him, i would not. If they trade down i think they will have 7 picks that should contribute right away. If they stay put i would use HT as a ED. Chung is a liabilty this year, Brown too and Clayborn. I can live with the others.

HT - Guy - #1 - Flowers
Bentley - #3 - KVN
Gilmore - J MCourty | DMcCourty - #2b

IMO this is a legit D, if they want to be elite they have to find a ED and upgrade CB2 but that's impossible to accomplish next year.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Gronk isn't toast. He's not GRONK, but he's still 6'6" with a huge catch radius, great hands, and is a great blocker. He's an ideal second tight end and still a starting caliber TE in the league. No doubt. He's not GRONK though, and this team is kind of predicated on him being GRONK.

Might be time to redesign the offense. Either get another stud TE and let Gronk be the second TE (with pay consistent with that role), or move to a more WR/RB centric offense, like they had back when their TEs were Wiggins or Watson.

The question is, is Gronk willing to be paid what a "normal" starting TE, or even quality #2 TE, is worth these days? I doubt it.

This has bothered me a lot. We've never replaced Hernandez & found a Flex to complement Gronk when there have been more than a few that fit the bill.

I thought TE1 was a need at the beginning of the year & feel even stronger now.

Like you said Gronk might not be the Gronk of old but he's more than serviceable. Then again he might retire.

We have to invest in the position. Not only bc it's a soon to be huge hole but we need that matchup against other teams & another quick option in the passing game.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Well I’ll say this. If we take care of business the last two weeks, and Houston finds a way to lose one of their last two, then anything can happen.

I'm not saying they're out this year. But this team needs a massive change in its core group of players, like the transition from 2009-2010. That was an amazingly quick turnaround as they had a grand slam draft in 2010, and then they added other key pieces with great drafting the next couple of years. I think we're going to see a big blowup and wouldn't be surprised if the 2019 Patriots look much, much different. It's just the end of the 10s lifecycle for many of its core players. Hopefully they can pull off a miracle like the 2010 offseason, but it will more likely takes two-three years. I think TB12 will have some more chances, but it all depends on scouting and drafting young players. I wonder if the Patriots will trade away some assets this offseason (guys like Edelman, Gilmore, McCourty and Chung) for draft picks. They need draft capital.

This is Tom and Bill's final challenge. Rebuilding and winning with a new core group would be the third iteration of the Patriots dynasty.

 

[Snooky97]

I'm not saying they're out this year. But this team needs a massive change in its core group of players, like the transition from 2009-2010. That was an amazingly quick turnaround as they had a grand slam draft in 2010, and then they added other key pieces with great drafting the next couple of years. I think we're going to see a big blowup and wouldn't be surprised if the 2019 Patriots look much, much different. It's just the end of the 10s lifecycle for many of its core players. Hopefully they can pull off a miracle like the 2010 offseason, but it will more likely takes two-three years. I think TB12 will have some more chances, but it all depends on scouting and drafting young players. I wonder if the Patriots will trade away some assets this offseason (guys like Edelman, Gilmore, McCourty and Chung) for draft picks. They need draft capital.

This is Tom and Bill's final challenge. Rebuilding and winning with a new core group would be the third iteration of the Patriots dynasty.

I can’t see them trading Gilmore away, he’s a legit shutdown corner.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

We need a new dline. Luckily this upcoming draft is very deep at DT and DE! With that draft being so deep, I think the pats would let Flowers walk even though I think we should resign him.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I can’t see them trading Gilmore away, he’s a legit shutdown corner.

Gilmore's a great player and I think a top-5 corner, but it all depends on the value. I think they'd trade him for a top fifteen pick, which they could leverage into multiple first/second round picks. The team liked Cooks a lot but felt the offer was too good to pass up. With Gilmore, as good as he is, the idea of having $15M in cap flexibility and multiple high draft picks could address a lot of team issues. As awesome as Gilmore is, the defense is still struggling because they have so many holes.

 

[Snooky97]

Gilmore's a great player and I think a top-5 corner, but it all depends on the value. I think they'd trade him for a top fifteen pick, which they could leverage into multiple first/second round picks. The team liked Cooks a lot but felt the offer was too good to pass up. With Gilmore, as good as he is, the idea of having $15M in cap flexibility and multiple high draft picks could address a lot of team issues. As awesome as Gilmore is, the defense is still struggling because they have so many holes.

Unless we are getting top ten draft pick and a bundle of other picks I’m not trading Gilmore. He’s the best corner we’ve had since Revis. You don’t just trade away lockdown corners for a potential player that could be like him. That’s my opinion anyway.

 

[maineman209]

Might be time to redesign the offense.

This, probably. It's probably going to need to happen anyway, since Brady's successor is likely to be more similar to Mahomes than to JimmyG.

Gronk has been a superior blocking TE who's regularly also been among the top-10 wide receivers most seasons, at least on a per-game basis. As such, he's been of immeasurable benefit to play-action for the Pats.

The way the college game has been using TEs, we may not see another TE like Gronk in our lifetimes. We certainly won't see another one during Brady's remaining career. TEs coming out of college these days are either blockers who've had very little experience running routes (Izzo), or are merely big (slow) receivers with limited route portfolios who are rarely asked to block, and who barely understand line calls, if at all (Hollister).

I'd keep Gronk around for as long as he wants to play for the $$ amount that the Pats are offering, but reconfigure the offense, as you suggest, around WRs and RBs (who can catch), and solid blocking TEs who can be taught to catch a bit (reliably).

 

[mosslost]

Like which young players are the ones we need to build around? Which ones are not?

Seems to be very few blue chip players on this team.

I think Brady is the only solid future bet on the Pats

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I can’t see them trading Gilmore away, he’s a legit shutdown corner.

0.0 zero chance he isn't on the team the next 2 years

 

[ashley]

I'm not including anyone over 30.

Offensive building blocks- Sony, White, Gordon(if he stays clean), Mason, jury still out on Wynn.

Defense: Flowers, Gilmore, Jackson looks good in limited action, jury still out on Dawson and Bentley.....

That's not a lot...We need help along the defensive line, more athletic linebackers, a big time safety....On offense we need a young QB, a tight end, a young wide out( not sure about Berrios), would also like some help on the interior OK( maybe Wynn) and maybe competition for Cannon, he's not having a great year.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think Brady is the only solid future bet on the Pats

Not for much longer.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not including anyone over 30.

Offensive building blocks- Sony, White, Gordon(if he stays clean), Mason, jury still out on Wynn.

Defense: Flowers, Gilmore, Jackson looks good in limited action, jury still out on Dawson and Bentley.....

That's not a lot...We need help along the defensive line, more athletic linebackers, a big time safety....On offense we need a young QB, a tight end, a young wide out( not sure about Berrios), would also like some help on the interior OK( maybe Wynn) and maybe competition for Cannon, he's not having a great year.

Cannon has very low key had a very bad year when he’s played. Yesterday was the exclamation point on it. Brown is also very boom or bust/feast or famine. The two bookends of our OL could reasonably stand to be upgraded and that’s not even mentioning Thuney or Andrews, who is undersized. When you have a 41 year old QB, that’s not a good thing.

 

[Joker]

I should have been a shrink....the neuroses on display here is staggering, neurosis being that which makes you miserable in life.

 

[Kontradiction]

I should have been a shrink....the neuroses on display here is staggering, neurosis being that which makes you miserable in life.

Team’s not good, man. The *****ing has actually been reasonable for the most part outside of some insanity here and there.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Cannon has very low key had a very bad year when he’s played. Yesterday was the exclamation point on it. Brown is also very boom or bust/feast or famine. The two bookends of our OL could reasonably stand to be upgraded and that’s not even mentioning Thuney or Andrews, who is undersized. When you have a 41 year old QB, that’s not a good thing.

Because I watched him play a lot in SF, I was a big defender of Brown during the off season. But he's been adequate at best this season. Cannon has been pretty bad at times as well.