So Michael Sam Is Gay, Who Cares? Can He Rush The QB?

[BradyFTW!]

Yes, I have heard about gay dolphins and such. Point stands. A penis evolved to deliver sperm to an egg via a vagina. (We'll forget urination as irrelevant.)

Other uses are contrary to that. (Yes, I enjoy some - every man does, but I ca not name them in a "G" rated forum. I'm on the edge as it is. Yes a line backer leads to a sexual discussion.)

Yes, it occurring in nature, say 10% of the time (I'm being very, very generous, take it) does not make it "natural." Heck, killing off spring of genetic competitors occurs in nature and my ex-wife's replacement for me killing my kids would not be "natural."

The post that you quoted asked you to define 'natural'. You did not define 'natural'. Please do. After all, how can you claim that something is unnatural if you can't clarify what natural is?

 

[Ring 6]

If **** Cheney can come around, anyone can.

I think a huge part of the shift in attitude toward gay acceptance comes from people realizing that it's an issue that affects people who are close to them. It's easy to be anti-gay when it's an abstract concept that only affects people that you see in pride parades on TV (as far as you know). It's a lot harder to say that gay people shouldn't have equal rights and the ability to live their lives without shame when it turns out that you're talking about your son.

Excellent post.
Americans have been conditioned to be anti-gay. Calling someone gay was the biggest insult you could give them. Even today, when teenagers are incredibly tolerant of everyone, more than I ever thought could happen in a generation, 'thats gay' is used as 'thats stupid'. Gay jokes replaced black jokes from the previous generation, when you wear Red Sox gear in Yankee Stadium when YMCA comes on they point you out and sing Why Are You Gay.
Why you look into the eyes of someone you love who has come to grips with being gay, and realize all those things lead them to believe you think they are less of a person, it all changes. I am embarassed that anyone ever thought I would judge them as a person just because of that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

1) Death is natural. Sex with dead people is not. (Remember, we ARE talking about sex.)
2) Mules (like coyote-dogs) exist. How many horses, given the option of other horses will breed with donkeys? They answer is we don't have groups of wild donkeys to find out. Your example is man made - not natural. As for my example of coydogs - dogs, as domesticated animals, are not natural. (I assume you do not have a link for wild Chihuahua's roaming the Mexican plains.) Yes, humans can screw with nature.
3) Male pattern baldness occurs roughly after breeding as is not selected for or against. (I say "roughly" because it starts based on age and one can delay one's own breeding. Just because one goes through puberty at 13 or 14 [roughly] does not mean you must breed then.) Yes, it is "natural" as is death, but we are talking about sex. Would you call a bald 40 year old guy with a 18 year old woman natural?

Innocent error easily made. In the future remember we are talking about sex.

If we're talking about sex, then gay people can have sex just fine. If we're talking about reproduction, which I assume we are, then everything that I brought up is 100% relevant.

And again, you're failing at the very simple task that I put out there for you: define natural. Or, for that matter, define unnatural. You can't claim that something isn't natural until you've defined the term.

If your definition of unnatural is "anything that harms the reproductive prospects of an individual", then once again, we're back to everything that I cited above.

If someone chooses not to reproduce, is that unnatural?
If someone is unable to give birth due to a genetic mutation, is that unnatural?
Is birth control unnatural?

Because if you're willing to clarify your position to mean "homosexuality is exactly as unnatural as using birth control or choosing not to have children", then sure, I'll co-sign on that. It's a meaningless statement, though.

 

[Ring 6]

Other uses are contrary to that. (Yes, I enjoy some - every man does, but I ca not name them in a "G" rated forum. I'm on the edge as it is. Yes a line backer leads to a sexual discussion.)

But you cannot make that statement and say gay sex is against the natural order because it doesn't involve reproduction yet you find other forms of non-reproductive sex to be acceptable. If oral sex is acceptable between a man and a woman then it would be acceptable between 2 men or 2 women.

 

[condon84]

Fixed. No need to thank me.

You know it is possible that his father will accept that his son is gay, but still not approve of that lifestyle.

Why must people shove the idea that anyone who might not agree with this lifestyle is stupid?

 

[condon84]

Excellent post.
Americans have been conditioned to be anti-gay. Calling someone gay was the biggest insult you could give them. Even today, when teenagers are incredibly tolerant of everyone, more than I ever thought could happen in a generation, 'thats gay' is used as 'thats stupid'. Gay jokes replaced black jokes from the previous generation, when you wear Red Sox gear in Yankee Stadium when YMCA comes on they point you out and sing Why Are You Gay.
Why you look into the eyes of someone you love who has come to grips with being gay, and realize all those things lead them to believe you think they are less of a person, it all changes. I am embarassed that anyone ever thought I would judge them as a person just because of that.

I agree with a lot of your points, but the pendulum is on the other side right now. The media and the public in general is going overboard with this *****. If you're gay, cool, but you don't need to announce it. Don't make a spectacle of your sexual orientation.

 

[condon84]

Excellent post.
Americans have been conditioned to be anti-gay. Calling someone gay was the biggest insult you could give them. Even today, when teenagers are incredibly tolerant of everyone, more than I ever thought could happen in a generation, 'thats gay' is used as 'thats stupid'. Gay jokes replaced black jokes from the previous generation, when you wear Red Sox gear in Yankee Stadium when YMCA comes on they point you out and sing Why Are You Gay.
Why you look into the eyes of someone you love who has come to grips with being gay, and realize all those things lead them to believe you think they are less of a person, it all changes. I am embarassed that anyone ever thought I would judge them as a person just because of that.

I agree with a lot of your points, but the pendulum is on the other side right now. The media and the public in general is going overboard with this *****. If you're gay, cool, but you don't need to announce it. Don't make a spectacle of your sexual orientation. I don't care if you're gay. Just like I don't care if you're straight.

 

[Jetssuck]

Why must people shove the idea that anyone who might not agree with this lifestyle is stupid?

Because when you walk like a duck and quack like a duck you're usually a duck.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with a lot of your points, but the pendulum is on the other side right now. The media and the public in general is going overboard with this *****. If you're gay, cool, but you don't need to announce it. Don't make a spectacle of your sexual orientation.

So they should hide it? Do you not realize that they feel persecuted and society has told them for years that there is something wrong with them? Do you think 'in the closet' was because they wanted to be secretive or because they fear retribution, rebuke and mistreatment?
They want to be respected like any other human.
More people make a spectacle of their heterosexual life than homosexuals do.

 

[PATS16N0]

Homosexuality in nature and animals is agenda driven nonsense.
I have to yell at my dog for trying to mount the sofa throw pillow. It doesn't mean he's genetically designed to be attracted sexually to throw pillows on the sofa.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I think this guy would be ecstatic if the Chargers drafted him

San Diego Chargers #1 Fan! - YouTube

 

[Ring 6]

You know it is possible that his father will accept that his son is gay, but still not approve of that lifestyle.

Why must people shove the idea that anyone who might not agree with this lifestyle is stupid?

"That lifestyle" isn't a choice, it is who the person is. No you cannot accept what someone is and not approve of being what they are.
You can't lie that you accept it, while not approving of it, but thats not what you are saying.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree with a lot of your points, but the pendulum is on the other side right now. The media and the public in general is going overboard with this *****. If you're gay, cool, but you don't need to announce it. Don't make a spectacle of your sexual orientation. I don't care if you're gay. Just like I don't care if you're straight.

Do you think that Michael Sam made a spectacle out of it? Based on everything that we've heard, it seems that he was perfectly fine with keeping it mostly private, and only went public because he suspected that word was getting out. He made the decision that he'd rather just come out and confirm it than have to hide it from probing front offices and media sources digging for gossip. Rather than leaving it up to the Jeff Irelands of the world to discover what he's 'hiding', he chose to stop hiding it. He outright said that he doesn't want to make a big deal out of it and doesn't want to be an activist. He just wants to be able to live his life in peace and pursue his opportunity to play in the NFL.

Ironically, if he hadn't said anything, I bet a lot of people would claim that he betrayed his teammates by not telling them.

 

[condon84]

So they should hide it? Do you not realize that they feel persecuted and society has told them for years that there is something wrong with them? Do you think 'in the closet' was because they wanted to be secretive or because they fear retribution, rebuke and mistreatment?
They want to be respected like any other human.
More people make a spectacle of their heterosexual life than homosexuals do.

Persecuted? Like the slaves, Jews and native Americans? We're they ever put in labor camps like the Asians were in the 1950s? We're they ever not allowed to vote like women were not allowed to?

 

[condon84]

Do you think that Michael Sam made a spectacle out of it? Based on everything that we've heard, it seems that he was perfectly fine with keeping it mostly private, and only went public because he suspected that word was getting out. He made the decision that he'd rather just come out and confirm it than have to hide it from probing front offices and media sources digging for gossip. Rather than leaving it up to the Jeff Irelands of the world to discover what he's 'hiding', he chose to stop hiding it. He outright said that he doesn't want to make a big deal out of it and doesn't want to be an activist. He just wants to be able to live his life in peace and pursue his opportunity to play in the NFL.

Ironically, if he hadn't said anything, I bet a lot of people would claim that he betrayed his teammates by not telling them.

He didn't want to make a big deal about it but he announced it? And then grant SI exclusive interview right after he announced it. To top it off, he announced it on his fathers birthday, lol. That doesn't make sense man.

 

[BradyFTW!]

He didn't want to make a big deal about it but he announced it? And then grant SI exclusive interview right after he announced it. To top it off, he announced it on his fathers birthday, lol. That doesn't make sense man.

He announced it because he was being asked about it and he realized that it was an 'open secret' at best that was going to become a topic at the combine if not sooner. So he addressed it head-on rather than leave it to the Jeff Irelands of the world to 'discover' it.

This isn't speculation: he outright said why he did it. I find it kinda weird that people are so eager to ascribe a bunch of strange motivations to what he said and when he said it. Most gay people would love to live in a world where homosexuality is accepted to the point that it doesn't need to be announced. Of course, in that world, there would be no need to speak out just to show other gay people that they're not alone and having to be ashamed of, either.

If his goal was to make a huge public spectacle of himself, why wait until now to come out? He could've come out before last season and it would have been about as huge of a story as it is now, but he chose not to because there was no outside force compelling him to.

Alternately, if it was entirely up to him, he easily could have waited until after the draft. He had to know that being gay would hurt his draft stock (as a bunch of GMs anonymously confirmed to SI) -- he absolutely cost himself money by having his sexual orientation become public now.

So why now, if it was up to him?

 

[Ring 6]

Persecuted? Like the slaves, Jews and native Americans? We're they ever put in labor camps like the Asians were in the 1950s? We're they ever not allowed to vote like women were not allowed to?

Are you kidding me?
You think that gay people have been treated equally to straight people?
You think the beatings, gay bashings, fear to come out of the closet, discrimination that led to them becoming a protected class, and continuing fight to prevent them from having equal rights to straight people is fine?

 

[Sciz]

He announced it because he was being asked about it and he realized that it was an 'open secret' at best that was going to become a topic at the combine if not sooner. So he addressed it head-on rather than leave it to the Jeff Irelands of the world to 'discover' it.

And to give an idea of the "sooner," the plan was to do it on Monday, but they were so worried that it'd leak over those next 24 hours that they did it on Sunday instead.

 

[Ring 6]

He didn't want to make a big deal about it but he announced it? And then grant SI exclusive interview right after he announced it. To top it off, he announced it on his fathers birthday, lol. That doesn't make sense man.

Doesn't he have the right to handle that situation however he chooses?
Are you telling me he should consider your feelings about making an announcement and should be required to justify to you why he did? Really?
What does his fathers birthday have to do with it?
I bet his father is proud of him, and considered this announcement a reason to be more proud of his son. It would appear you think his father should be embarrassed for the world to know he has a homo kid.

 

[SB39]

I bet his father is proud of him, and considered this announcement a reason to be more proud of his son. It would appear you think his father should be embarrassed for the world to know he has a homo kid.

Ouch.

Father of Michael Sam struggling with news son is gay - ESPN

Sam's father took the news hard. He said he was eating at a Denny's restaurant but had to leave after receiving the text.

"I couldn't eat no more, so I went to Applebee's to have drinks," Sam Sr. told the newspaper. "I don't want my grandkids raised in that kind of environment."

Sam Sr., who described himself as "old-school," told the newspaper the idea of a gay player in the NFL bothers him, even when that person could be his own son.