So how do you grade this year’s draft?

[Wozzy]

So Belichick's got all the answers for Mac jones as well, right? We should be expecting a Super Bowl title soon. But then again, what happened in 2020 with Cam? Didn't have all the answers to the test that year? Bledsoe in 2000? Kosar and Testaverde? Funny how having all the answers only works with Brady.

Cam sucked, they also paid him 500K guaranteed, so they obviously knew what they were getting, even if their hopes were high on a revival. BB won a playoff game with Testeverde. He won ten games with Cassel and probably would have gone far in the playoffs if the NFL's seeding wasn't such a mess and let teams with losing records get in.

You're hopelessly ridiculous. You said the Bucs had basically the same exact team. I point out how WRONG you are by reminding you they were down their #1 and #3 WRs and your reply is being without your #1 and #3 WRs doesn't matter. ************.

Mike Evans is their #1 WR. Gronk's pretty good also, so are all their other weapons. Just because Tom didn't have a couple weapons didn't stop them from scoring.

Here again you're WRONG. Go ahead tell me this doesn't matter either:

2020 Bucs Rushing Offense:
Attempts: 29th
Yards: 28th

The 2020 Bucs learned a hard lesson in week 9 when they set an NFL record for fewest rushing attempts in a single game and got thrashed by New Orleans. How do we know they learned a lesson?

Because they led the entire 2020 NFL postseason in rushing attempts, rushing attempts per game and ran their offense through their RB's, they rode Fournette like a rented mule.

He led the NFL postseason in rushing attempts, yards, rushing TD's and first downs... he also had the 4th most receptions, so when they weren't running him they were passing to him. Ronald Jones was 4th in attempts... they clearly ran the ball in the postseason.

WRONG is what you are all the time... you should probably stop disagreeing with me so much.

2021 Bucs Rushing Offense:
Attempts: 31th
Yards: 26th

They averaged 78 yards rushing per game in the 2021 postseason.

The Bucs run a pass first and often offense... this was before Brady even got there. They were 1st, 2nd & 1st in passing offense from 2019-2021. The big difference was transitioning from Winston to Brady which cutout a ton of inefficiency, mistakes and turnovers. That's right, Brady made the difference, he made the Bucs a Super Bowl contender. They probably could have been the #1 seed last season had their offense not completely fallen apart with injuries... that second Saints game they were without Brown and then Evans and Godwin went out before halftime. They still managed to get by (on one occasion with a miracle finish by Brady) until the Rams matchup when they just didn't have enough firepower to get through it. Too many injuries and a collapse on defense ended their season.

Winston sucked... that's a revelation?

I don't recall a season when Edelman, Brown and Pattern were their 1-3 WRs. I mean what's your point here anyway?... because he won with lesser WRs he then should have been able to suddenly get by with Grayson and Perriman over Godwin and AB?

You don't recall 2001, 2003, or 2004?

In your defense you were probably five years old, but that must be where your reimagining of Brady as a magical superhero savior comes from.

Brady won rings with a lot less than the Bucs had in 2021, it took a team and realizing that running the ball to keep opponents on the sideline is an option. I suspect that's why Brady got Arians fired... even Tom knew better.

The 2015 Broncos had Peyton Manning, one of the greatest QBs of all-time, and he actually was a detriment to the team winning.

Peyton Manning was coming off a broken neck and could only play because he borrowed his wife's HGH prescription... oh yeah, and after he got beat out in the regular season as starter by Brock Osweiler... but you must have forgotten that... along with his 59% completion percentage, his 9 TD's/17 INT's ratio... or his career low 6.8 yards per attempt and 224 yards per game... funny how you forgot all of that, or how he retired immediately after his rushing attack and defense carried him to his final ring.

2000 Ravens had a good running game, not great. Lewis and Holmes didn't receive any accolades in the 2000 season. Their passing offense was bottom third in the league, which is being polite, so I don't care who their receivers were, their QBs sucked. Their all-world defense gets 85% of the credit for that Super Bowl... probably more in the postseason when they gave up 3, 10, 3 & 7 points.

Again, you're meandering, so try to stay on track... we're talking about the 2002 Bucs... more than half of those players didn't make the pro bowl. Their offense ranked 18th in scoring and 24th in yards whereas their defense was 1st in both. In 3 postseason games their defense forced 13 turnovers... they completely dominated that season start to finish. The rest of their team was mediocre at best.

We can talk fantasy football if you'd like but otherwise I think we've established here that we're talking actual football.

Right the 2012 Ravens and yes they were an average team THAT season...

Offense:
15th in yards
15th in first downs
15th in passing
11th in rushing

Defense:
17th in yards
21st in first downs
17th in passing
20th in rushing

Those are actual rankings and they reflect an average team. They limped into the postseason but their quarterback caught fire and carried them to a Super Bowl title.

That Super Bowl result is an anomaly because you had the unprecedented occurrence of a head coach inexplicably benching a vitally important player which had an obvious detrimental impact on the outcome of the game.

You have a sht ton of excuses for why a large number of average QB's won rings... I mean you go on and on with the excuses and all you do is reinforce my position that you don't need the GOAT to win rings.

There's only one GOAT... that's how it works. If I had an example of another quarterback dominating postseason game-winning drives then I would give it to you. There isn't one.

Exactly... in your mind Tom Brady is the only good QB to have ever played the game. You're a delusional fanboy.

 

[Ring 6]

Youre referring to the 2020 team, but what about 2021 and beyond? They paid $160 mil gtd to FAs in the 2021 offseason, they would have had a large chunk of that money to spend on FAs if Brady was there under the TB deal. I dont see any reason why they wouldnt have been competitive in 2021 and for the future. Your two bolded statements contradict each other, one says until he retires and the next like says they wouldve sucked in 2020.

They had 65-ish million of cap room in 2021. Paying Brady the 25 mill a year that Tampa did for 20 and 21 would have reduced that to about 15 because part of it was carryover from 20 created by the opt outs.
The 160 mill number is not pertinent to the cap status.

No conflict, one comment says if he stayed they wouldn’t have been able to rebuild effectively before it was too late for him, the other says they would have been worse in 2020 than 2019 even with him. Both are true.

 

[All3Phases]

They had 65-ish million of cap room in 2021. Paying Brady the 25 mill a year that Tampa did for 20 and 21 would have reduced that to about 15 because part of it was carryover from 20 created by the opt outs.
The 160 mill number is not pertinent to the cap status.

No conflict, one comment says if he stayed they wouldn’t have been able to rebuild effectively before it was too late for him, the other says they would have been worse in 2020 than 2019 even with him. Both are true.

Right, the 160 mil is not cap dollars for 2021, that was guaranteed cash that doled out to acquire those players. I think we have seen, especially this year that the Cap figures can be adjusted with different strategies. I think they have money/space either way in 2021 to kind of rebuild on the fly

Also, Bradys Cap hit in 2021 was 10.5 Mil, due to an extension...Which he couldve easily signed here. This year its again at just under 12. Very affordable

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

20 or 30 more pages and they'll tucker themselves out.

What was this thread about again?

 

[mgteich]

20 or 30 more pages and they'll tucker themselves out.

What was this thread about again?

brady

We need to start non-Brady threads as "NB" much as we do "OT". Otherwise, every thread becomes a Brady thread.

 

[Toofy]

20 or 30 more pages and they'll tucker themselves out.

What was this thread about again?

Can we restrict to this topic. This is a great thread. Let's not get derailed by Brady vs belichick. Very difficult to read these rebuttals and back and forth .

Brady was not gonna stick around even if we paid him. He wanted to win and the probability was low with NE.

As for belichick , he has the most SB wins as a coach. Enough said. Both Brady and belichick complemented each other.

We all love Brady and belichick and Patriots .

Brady is not part of Patriots . Doesn't mean Patriots suck . We are still a team on the rise . So can we move on , please !!!

Let's discuss the Patriots draft and your opinions .

 

[crawhammer]

Cam sucked, they also paid him 500K guaranteed, so they obviously knew what they were getting, even if their hopes were high on a revival. BB won a playoff game with Testeverde. He won ten games with Cassel and probably would have gone far in the playoffs if the NFL's seeding wasn't such a mess and let teams with losing records get in.

Cam, Cassel, Testaverde... add'em all up... having "all the answers to the test" amounted to 1 playoff win in 9 seasons. That doesn't seem like the level of success that you would expect from a head coach who has "all the answers." I don't know, maybe your bar is low?

Mike Evans is their #1 WR. Gronk's pretty good also, so are all their other weapons. Just because Tom didn't have a couple weapons didn't stop them from scoring.

On that game-winning drive against the Jets in week 17, the one where Brady drove the team 70 yards with under a minute left, he completed 4 passes to Cyril Grayson who had 5 receptions for his entire career heading into that game. That's a couldn't stop'em moment.

Godwin is a MUCH better receiver than Evans in my opinion. I also prefer AB over Evans. But whatever, the Bucs were down two of their top three WRs... that's going to effect a team that relies so heavily on their passing game, which they should, it's what they're best at, but it's impossible to be as great being down two essential receivers.

The 2020 Bucs learned a hard lesson in week 9 when they set an NFL record for fewest rushing attempts in a single game and got thrashed by New Orleans. How do we know they learned a lesson?

Because they led the entire 2020 NFL postseason in rushing attempts, rushing attempts per game and ran their offense through their RB's, they rode Fournette like a rented mule.

He led the NFL postseason in rushing attempts, yards, rushing TD's and first downs... he also had the 4th most receptions, so when they weren't running him they were passing to him. Ronald Jones was 4th in attempts... they clearly ran the ball in the postseason.

They also led the NFL postseason in passing attempts, yards, passing TD's and first downs. They clearly played more postseason games than anyone else in 2020. ************. They had significantly more passing yards than rushing yards in that postseason. They also had 10 passing TDs to only 4 rushing TDs (one by Brady). They moved the ball and scored primarily through the passing game.

You don't recall 2001, 2003, or 2004?

Edelman was in high school. Not playing for the Patriots. You can't wave your magic wand and create a WR room. Remember we're talking real football teams, games and outcomes.

Peyton Manning was coming off a broken neck and could only play because he borrowed his wife's HGH prescription... oh yeah, and after he got beat out in the regular season as starter by Brock Osweiler... but you must have forgotten that... along with his 59% completion percentage, his 9 TD's/17 INT's ratio... or his career low 6.8 yards per attempt and 224 yards per game... funny how you forgot all of that, or how he retired immediately after his rushing attack and defense carried him to his final ring.

And? Are trying to agree with me? The 2015 Broncos were NOT a great team. You're overrating their running game and their passing game was horrific. ONLY their defense was great.

Exactly... in your mind Tom Brady is the only good QB to have ever played the game. You're a delusional fanboy.

There's a massive difference between good and the best. Even you think Brady is better than every other quarterback in the history of the NFL. You explain why it is that you feel that way. I'm sure your answer isn't because anyone else could have accomplished as much with exactly the same variables otherwise (same ownership, head coach, coordinators, teammates, etc.).

 

[Wozzy]

Cam, Cassel, Testaverde... add'em all up... having "all the answers to the test" amounted to 1 playoff win in 9 seasons. That doesn't seem like the level of success that you would expect from a head coach who has "all the answers." I don't know, maybe your bar is low?

BB drafted and developed Brady, he doesn't have to justify anything except in the mind of Brady ball washers.

On that game-winning drive against the Jets in week 17, the one where Brady drove the team 70 yards with under a minute left, he completed 4 passes to Cyril Grayson who had 5 receptions for his entire career heading into that game. That's a couldn't stop'em moment.

Against Green Bay in the NFC Title game Tom threw 3 INT's and had to be bailed out by his defense. Kind of shoots holes in your "Brady does it alone" narrative.

Godwin is a MUCH better receiver than Evans in my opinion. I also prefer AB over Evans. But whatever, the Bucs were down two of their top three WRs... that's going to effect a team that relies so heavily on their passing game, which they should, it's what they're best at, but it's impossible to be as great being down two essential receivers.

Essential... only to the fantasy football-centric among us. Brady won with Troy Brown as his #1 and he was taken in the 8th round... the 8th round doesn't even exist anymore, if he were taken today he would be an UDFA... David Patten came from the Arena league, he was undrafted.... so exactly like I said... Brady won rings with substantially less weapons in NE than Tampa had in 2021.

They also led the NFL postseason in passing attempts, yards, passing TD's and first downs. They clearly played more postseason games than anyone else in 2020. ************. They had significantly more passing yards than rushing yards in that postseason. They also had 10 passing TDs to only 4 rushing TDs (one by Brady). They moved the ball and scored primarily through the passing game.

What was it you said to me when I said they ran the ball more... WRONG!!! Lol the Bucs averaged 34 pass attempts per game in the playoffs, that put them below KC, Buffalo, Green Bay, New Orleans, Cleveland, Indy, Washington and Pittsburgh... 8th in the postseason on a per game basis.

The only team that had more rushing attempts per game in the postseason was Baltimore... the team that can't pass because their QB sucks.

I say the Bucs passed more, you say "wrong" then you make yourself look silly by pretending it didn't happen and posting some bogus stats... you hadn't even bothered to look beyond the regular season. It's a fact, the Bucs won in 2020 not only because they ran more but relied on their RB's more... again, shoots holes in your "Brady does it alone" narrative.

Edelman was in high school. Not playing for the Patriots. You can't wave your magic wand and create a WR room. Remember we're talking real football teams, games and outcomes.

Troy Brown, David Givens and David Patten... so an 8th rounder (doesn't exist anymore) a 7th rounder and an UDFA they found in the Arena League. I guess we can avoid talking about 7th round pick and Kent State QB convert Edelman... but it really doesn't help your argument anymore does it.

And? Are trying to agree with me? The 2015 Broncos were NOT a great team. You're overrating their running game and their passing game was horrific. ONLY their defense was great.

There's a massive difference between good and the best. Even you think Brady is better than every other quarterback in the history of the NFL. You explain why it is that you feel that way. I'm sure your answer isn't because anyone else could have accomplished as much with exactly the same variables otherwise (same ownership, head coach, coordinators, teammates, etc.).

Laughable... you give a million excuses for how numerous "average/good" QB's can win a ring... yet can't find a single example of a superstar QB dragging an average team to a championship... because it doesn't exist. You reinforce my argument with every response and are too daft to see it.
Fanboys... nobody will ever accuse them of being logical.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

FWIW, having some time to reflect on this year's draft. I've gone through the 5 stages of grief and come out the other side to realize it's a typical Bill draft (last year was the outlier) and it is a very intriguing cast of characters. Seems like a high potential for being really great or really bad (Says captain obvious), which will make it really exciting to see these guys in action. You can imagine thornton being a gem or another flop -- I can hardly wait to see how he and the rest turn out.

 

[Bruins29]

These threads

 

[crawhammer]

BB drafted and developed Brady, he doesn't have to justify anything except in the mind of Brady ball washers.

You have your head buried in the sand if you can't admit BB is facing a lot of questions.

Against Green Bay in the NFC Title game Tom threw 3 INT's and had to be bailed out by his defense. Kind of shoots holes in your "Brady does it alone" narrative.

Actually Rodgers bailed him out when he choked per usual.

Troy Brown, David Givens and David Patten... so an 8th rounder (doesn't exist anymore) a 7th rounder and an UDFA they found in the Arena League.

Essential... only to the fantasy football-centric among us. Brady won with Troy Brown as his #1 and he was taken in the 8th round... the 8th round doesn't even exist anymore, if he were taken today he would be an UDFA... David Patten came from the Arena league, he was undrafted.... so exactly like I said... Brady won rings with substantially less weapons in NE than Tampa had in 2021.
Yes he did. Pretty impressive winning with subpar supporting casts as often as he did.

Yes he did. Pretty impressive winning with subpar supporting casts as often as he did.

What was it you said to me when I said they ran the ball more... WRONG!!! Lol the Bucs averaged 34 pass attempts per game in the playoffs, that put them below KC, Buffalo, Green Bay, New Orleans, Cleveland, Indy, Washington and Pittsburgh... 8th in the postseason on a per game basis.

The only team that had more rushing attempts per game in the postseason was Baltimore... the team that can't pass because their QB sucks.

I say the Bucs passed more, you say "wrong" then you make yourself look silly by pretending it didn't happen and posting some bogus stats... you hadn't even bothered to look beyond the regular season. It's a fact, the Bucs won in 2020 not only because they ran more but relied on their RB's more... again, shoots holes in your "Brady does it alone" narrative.

You sir were the one who brought up volume stats initially. I was just following your lead. Since that blew up in your face you've moved onto other stats that also don't prove Brady took a back seat to a friggin running back. You're aware you win games by scoring more points than your opponent? Not by most rushing attempts per game. Tampa Bay had 14 TDs in the 2020 postseason... 11 by Brady (10 passing & 1 rushing) and 3 rushing by Fournette. Do we really need to talk about anything else here?

Laughable... you give a million excuses for how numerous "average/good" QB's can win a ring... yet can't find a single example of a superstar QB dragging an average team to a championship... because it doesn't exist. You reinforce my argument with every response and are too daft to see it.
Fanboys... nobody will ever accuse them of being logical.

I gave you Eli Manning and Joe Flacco... both had epic postseasons for mediocre teams. The 2014 and 2016 Patriots don't sniff a Super Bowl title without Brady's heroics... and was the 2014 team really all that great? The 2019 Chiefs weren't that great of a team... no running game and a pretty mediocre defense... Mahomes is one of few QBs that are winning a Super Bowl with that team. How good really were the 2020 Bucs? Their secondary sucked, 28th ranked running game, and a moron for a head coach... their passing game was the only consistently reliable component of their team.

I don't get your problem with QBs?... the last 9 league MVP's have been QBs... 15 of the last 16... 31 of the last 36, etc. They're winning SB MVPs on the regular too. 26 of the last 30 SB winning QBs are going to be HOFers. It's the single most important position by far.

 

[Pats2000]

Is he beating his horse meat?

 

[Wozzy]

You have your head buried in the sand if you can't admit BB is facing a lot of questions.

From negative nancy’s such as yourself… the same people who said we lacked talent in 2014, 2016 and 2018. What’s new?

Actually Rodgers bailed him out when he choked per usual.

He got taken out by a buzzsaw that was the superteam, he got sacked five times and their D forced two fumbles… but I’m sure that had nothing to do with it.

Tampa's D was nasty, they carried that game while their QB was throwing 3 INT's... despite only being sacked once and having superweapons. It's a TEAM game.

Yes he did. Pretty impressive winning with subpar supporting casts as often as he did.

So I was correct again.

You sir were the one who brought up volume stats initially. I was just following your lead. Since that blew up in your face you've moved onto other stats that also don't prove Brady took a back seat to a friggin running back. You're aware you win games by scoring more points than your opponent? Not by most rushing attempts per game. Tampa Bay had 14 TDs in the 2020 postseason... 11 by Brady (10 passing & 1 rushing) and 3 rushing by Fournette. Do we really need to talk about anything else here?

Wrong, I said “per game” as well as giving total stats in my response to you. So yes, the Bucs led the entire NFL postseason in rushing by any measure. Wrong again.

I gave you Eli Manning and Joe Flacco... both had epic postseasons for mediocre teams. The 2014 and 2016 Patriots don't sniff a Super Bowl title without Brady's heroics... and was the 2014 team really all that great? The 2019 Chiefs weren't that great of a team... no running game and a pretty mediocre defense... Mahomes is one of few QBs that are winning a Super Bowl with that team. How good really were the 2020 Bucs? Their secondary sucked, 28th ranked running game, and a moron for a head coach... their passing game was the only consistently reliable component of their team.

You have no answer for a large multitude of average/good QB’s winning rings… none. So your argument is wrong, that’s how debate works.

I have no problem with QB’s, fanboys simply give them too much credit and insult every other position group in football. It's the single most important position by far… worth roughly 10-15%. So not much in relation to the importance of team.

 

[All3Phases]

I have no problem with QB’s, fanboys simply give them too much credit and insult every other position group in football. It's the single most important position by far… worth roughly 10-15%. So not much in relation to the importance of team.

How can the most important position in the league by Far, not serve much importance in relation to the team? Kind of contradictory?

 

[Wozzy]

How can the most important position in the league by Far, not serve much importance in relation to the team? Kind of contradictory?

Because Deshaun Watson led the league in passing yards in 2020, he had the second highest QB Rating in the league behind Aaron Rogers, he had the best numbers of his entire career, most TD’s, fewest INT’s… and the Texans won 4 games.

The quality of the entire team is far more important than who the QB is.

 

[All3Phases]

Because Deshaun Watson led the league in passing yards in 2020, he had the second highest QB Rating in the league behind Aaron Rogers, he had the best numbers of his entire career, most TD’s, fewest INT’s… and the Texans won 4 games.

The quality of the entire team is far more important than who the QB is.

Sure, but your last line doesn’t mean the position has to reflect 10%. And you keep using Watson, when we can just look at the Patriots. I’m not saying they deserve all the credit, but they do touch the ball every offensive snap, have by far the most responsibility and influence on an entire side of the ball. To me, that’s extremely valuable and they hugely impact the team

 

[Wozzy]

Sure, but your last line doesn’t mean the position has to reflect 10%. And you keep using Watson, when we can just look at the Patriots. I’m not saying they deserve all the credit, but they do touch the ball every offensive snap, have by far the most responsibility and influence on an entire side of the ball. To me, that’s extremely valuable and they hugely impact the team

There’s other examples just as definitive, like Drew Brees leading lead the NFL in passing in 2016, have the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league... but his team had the 32nd worst defense and went 7-9.

Stop spamming the board with anti-Patriot nonsense. This thread is about the draft, nobody wants to keep talking about Tom Brady.

I gave you facts, you reject facts. Keeping a debate going long after it’s over doesn’t make it valid, it means one side is too stubborn to admit facts are against them.

 

[Pats2000]

There’s other examples just as definitive, like Drew Brees leading lead the NFL in passing in 2016, have the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league... but his team had the 32nd worst defense and went 7-9.

Stop spamming the board with anti-Patriot nonsense. This thread is about the draft, nobody wants to keep talking about Tom Brady.

I gave you facts, you reject facts. Keeping a debate going long after it’s over doesn’t make it valid, it means one side is too stubborn to admit facts are against them.

I remember 2019 when TB12 had a pedestrian WR group and bad protection. He looked like a mediocre QB that year. Some people just don't get that the Pats have fielded a lot of WR talent over the years. They just look for 4 or 5 #2 or #3 guys. If you have 3 #2 quality receivers, you can't take all of them away. Someone is going to be open on almost every play. Different philosophy than most, but it works really well.

 

[crawhammer]

From negative nancy’s such as yourself… the same people who said we lacked talent in 2014, 2016 and 2018. What’s new?

Some of those rosters weren't incredibly deep or full of high end talent but I never said any of those teams were incapable of a winning a Super Bowl. You gave up on the 2020 season with or without Brady, which is someone who didn't learn much from watching 18 seasons of anything is possible.

He got taken out by a buzzsaw that was the superteam, he got sacked five times and their D forced two fumbles… but I’m sure that had nothing to do with it.

Tampa's D was nasty, they carried that game while their QB was throwing 3 INT's... despite only being sacked once and having superweapons. It's a TEAM game.

Go back and watch Aaron Rodgers in the NFCCG with 1st-and-goal from the Tampa Bay 8-yardline... it's a spectacular fail by a choking quarterback. Rodgers is pretty much the opposite of Brady in the postseason, which is why he has 4 NFL MVPs and one Super Bowl appearance.

Brady makes it to the Super Bowl 50% of his career.
Rodgers makes it to the Super Bowl 7% of his career.
Even a choker like Peyton Manning made it to the Super Bowl 24% of his career.

Wrong, I said “per game” as well as giving total stats in my response to you. So yes, the Bucs led the entire NFL postseason in rushing by any measure. Wrong again.

You apparently are the only person on the planet who thinks the Bucs running game was more important than their passing game in the 2020 postseason. Good for you.

You have no answer for a large multitude of average/good QB’s winning rings… none. So your argument is wrong, that’s how debate works.

No, I don't have an answer to your false premise. Did you not read?: 26 of the last 30 Super Bowl winning QBs are going to be Hall of Famers. Do you have an answer for why a large multitude of Hall of Fame QBs are winning rings?

I have no problem with QB’s, fanboys simply give them too much credit and insult every other position group in football. It's the single most important position by far… worth roughly 10-15%. So not much in relation to the importance of team.

Your percentage aside, you basically just admitted it there. We agree, QB is the single most important position BY FAR.

Because Deshaun Watson led the league in passing yards in 2020, he had the second highest QB Rating in the league behind Aaron Rogers, he had the best numbers of his entire career, most TD’s, fewest INT’s… and the Texans won 4 games.

Over the last 30 years there's only one other example like that... Jeff George in 1997 when he also only won 4 games. Only 4 QBs have led the league in passing yards with sub-.500 records. Watson and George. Winston won 7 games in 2019 when he also led the league in INTs. And Drew Brees, who is the exception to the rule, did it four times with 7 wins. The majority of QBs who lead the league in passing yards make it to the postseason.

 

[All3Phases]

There’s other examples just as definitive, like Drew Brees leading lead the NFL in passing in 2016, have the 2nd highest scoring offense in the league... but his team had the 32nd worst defense and went 7-9.

Stop spamming the board with anti-Patriot nonsense. This thread is about the draft, nobody wants to keep talking about Tom Brady.

I gave you facts, you reject facts. Keeping a debate going long after it’s over doesn’t make it valid, it means one side is too stubborn to admit facts are against them.

I feel like I’ve tried to end this discussion before! It’s ok we will have to agree to disagree!

But I don’t feel like I’ve been anti patriot since I’ve been here, definitely not my intention