Should we consider drafting Joe Alt in the first round?

[MahomestoKelce]

You should read what I wrote than cuz I didn't write that we should pass on a qb. I said alt has to be a consideration. Just like mhj. Your doing the team a disservice if you don't consider it. But my final sentence was if you believe in one of the qbs you gotta pull the trigger. Obviously a franchise qb is paramount but you can't pick one just cuz someone's there at 3. You gotta believe in that player. Missing on the qb that early kills your team. Joe Alt jr and MHJ will not bust out in the league. Outside of some crazy injury luck those dudes are gonna ball out. And Daniels and drake scare me McCarthy does too. Qb is such a crapshoot you just don't know for sure if they can handle it.

But it's the most important position in pro sports. The Patriots went from riches to poor at that position in an instant. So everyone in NE should know what happens when you have a franchise QB. You get the 2018 Patriots or 2023 Chiefs. Teams that were probably not even a top three or four team during the season. But it didn't matter because of the QB. They still won.

Conversely, you get the 2019 & 2023 49ers. Great regular season. SB expectations. Can't get it done because at the very end, the lesser QB can't outduel the much better QB.

 

[PatsFan2]

Chiefs - won 3 Super Bowls cause they drafted Mahomes
Bills - went from a laughing stock to a double digit win team every year cause they drafted Allen
Bengals - went from the dregs of the league to playing in the Super Bowl cause they drafted Joe Burrow
Texans - went from picking in the top 3 to the playoffs in 1 year cause they drafted CJ Stroud.

Patriots dominated because they had Tom Brady, Kirk Cousins is more important to winning than the best tackle in the league.

Cardinals last year took a tackle at 6 - suck
Bears last year took a tackle at 10 - suck
Titans last year took a tackle at 11 - suck

2022

Panthers took a tackle at 6 - suck
Giants took a tackle at 7 - suck
Seahawks took a tackle at 9 - suck

There's the results of the last 6 tackles picked in the top 11. All those teams built the offensive line for their suckbag QB options how's that working out?

 

[Steve102]

Chiefs - won 3 Super Bowls cause they drafted Mahomes
Bills - went from a laughing stock to a double digit win team every year cause they drafted Allen
Bengals - went from the dregs of the league to playing in the Super Bowl cause they drafted Joe Burrow
Texans - went from picking in the top 3 to the playoffs in 1 year cause they drafted CJ Stroud.

Patriots dominated because they had Tom Brady, Kirk Cousins is more important to winning than the best tackle in the league.

Cardinals last year took a tackle at 6 - suck
Bears last year took a tackle at 10 - suck
Titans last year took a tackle at 11 - suck

2022

Panthers took a tackle at 6 - suck
Giants took a tackle at 7 - suck
Seahawks took a tackle at 9 - suck

There's the results of the last 6 tackles picked in the top 11. All those teams built the offensive line for their suckbag QB options how's that working out?

I dunno man. Here's the PFF top 20 OTs currently and their draft position. Tope 10 picks are bold, non R1 guys are in italics.

Trent Williams, 4th overall.
Lane Johnson, 4th overall
Laremy Tunsil, 13th overall
Andrew Thomas, 4th overall
Christain Darrisaw, 23rd overall
Jordan Mailata, 7th round
Tristian Wirfs, 13th overall
Kolton Miller, 15th overall
Rashawn Slater, 13th overall
Penei Sewell, 7th overall
Ryan Ramczyk, 32nd overall
Ronnie Stanley, 6th overall
Davis Bakhtiara 4th round
Orlando Brown Jr, 3rd round
Braden Smith, 2nd round
Brian O'Neill, 2nd round
Terron Armstead, 3rd round
Jake Matthews, 6th overall
Taylor Decker, 16th overall
Morgan Moses, 3rd round

I get what your saying about the QB and the importance of the position, and you are correct, QB is the most important. It comes down to believing in your guy at 3. If they believe Maye or Daniels is a franchise transformative player, then they should 100% take them at 3. If they don't, dominant OTs generally go in the 1st round. It's like everything else, the top of R1 should be a dominant player, be it a QB (Williams, Daniels, Maye) or MHJ at WR. If they don't believe in those guys are franchise cornerstone types, and they believe Alt is, then you take Alt. It's really as simple as this is where those guys are drafted. You might be able to trade back a little of you want Alt, but not too far. My guess is it's either one of MHJ, Daniels, Maye, or trade back to add picks and get a very good player or players later in the round.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where taking Alt makes sense. If we think there's a legit franchise QB at #3, we need to stay put and take him. If we don't think there is, we need to trade back for a haul of draft picks that helps us potentially land a future QB in another draft (meaning at least one future 1st coming back).

If we go the trade back scenario, then I think the haul likely comes from a team picking too late to have a shot at Alt.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I’m not sure how they have them rated, but you are absolutely right in saying they can’t wait for the perfect prospect. They still have to have a high enough grade, and belief in their ability to develop them to make the pick. It’s only if they don’t believe they are worth the pick that they should go to their next options. Hopefully they have the top four rated highly enough to warrant the pick, otherwise they aren’t going to have a franchise caliber QB until 26’ at the earliest, and probably 27’ before they end up getting dividends from them. .

Exactly.

If they are 100% against drafting Maye/Daniels at 3, they should not do it. Maybe they see something nobody else does. My guess is this isn't the case and they will absolutely draft one of those guys at three.

To me, if they grade those guys high enough, the bidding needs to start at three first rounders. Or two first rounders and a roster player (Jefferson) from Minnesota for example.

But..I'm still not even sure it's worth trading down that far for future assets. You may end up getting first round picks to move up...for a future franchise QB in a few years. Or, you get great in other areas. But are not that great at the QB spot. Dolphins are an example. They have a generational type receiver. Yet, haven't been close to winning even a playoff game. Because Tua needs more help around him than even a Burrow or Allen do. Let alone guys like Brady/Mahomes who can win with anyone.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I dunno man. Here's the PFF top 20 OTs currently and their draft position. Non R1 guys are in italics.

Trent Williams, 4th overall.
Lane Johnson, 4th overall
Laremy Tunsil, 13th overall
Andrew Thomas, 4th overall
Christain Darrisaw, 23rd overall
Jordan Mailata, 7th round
Tristian Wirfs, 13th overall
Kolton Miller, 15th overall
Rashawn Slater, 13th overall
Penei Sewell, 7th overall
Ryan Ramczyk, 32nd overall
Ronnie Stanley, 6th overall
Davis Bakhtiara 4th round
Orlando Brown Jr, 3rd round
Braden Smith, 2nd round
Brian O'Neill, 2nd round
Terron Armstead, 3rd round
Jake Matthews, 6th overall
Taylor Decker, 16th overall
Morgan Moses, 3rd round

I get what your saying about the QB and the importance of the position, and you are correct, QB is the most important. It comes down to believing in your guy at 3. If they believe Maye or Daniels is a franchise transformative player, then they should 100% take them at 3. If they don't, dominant OTs generally go in the 1st round. It's like everything else, the top of R1 should be a dominant player, be it a QB (Williams, Daniels, Maye) or MHJ at WR. If they don't believe in those guys are franchise cornerstone types, and they believe Alt is, then you take Alt. It's really as simple as this is where those guys are drafted. You might be able to trade back a little of you want Alt, but not too far. My guess is it's either one of MHJ, Daniels, Maye, or trade back to add picks and get a very good player or players later in the round.

This I agree with. Never go against your grade/belief.

I have no proof. But my gut tells me they believe in Daniels/Maye enough to take them.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Chiefs - won 3 Super Bowls cause they drafted Mahomes
Bills - went from a laughing stock to a double digit win team every year cause they drafted Allen
Bengals - went from the dregs of the league to playing in the Super Bowl cause they drafted Joe Burrow
Texans - went from picking in the top 3 to the playoffs in 1 year cause they drafted CJ Stroud.

Patriots dominated because they had Tom Brady, Kirk Cousins is more important to winning than the best tackle in the league.

Cardinals last year took a tackle at 6 - suck
Bears last year took a tackle at 10 - suck
Titans last year took a tackle at 11 - suck

2022

Panthers took a tackle at 6 - suck
Giants took a tackle at 7 - suck
Seahawks took a tackle at 9 - suck

There's the results of the last 6 tackles picked in the top 11. All those teams built the offensive line for their suckbag QB options how's that working out?

I don't think anyone is arguing that a franchise QB or even just a "good" QB does way more to improve your record than a good, great or even elite OT. Just taking a QB at #3 doesn't mean he's one of those guys you described though. He could just as easily be Byrce Young, Kenny Pickett, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold, etc. Drafting one of those types of guys means not only do you suck, but likely waste multiple seasons by trying to develop that crappy player before you give up.

Everyone understands that QB is the most important position and that you need to address is. That doesn't mean you just blindly take the best one at #3. You have to do an actual evaluation to determine if the guy is worth it.

 

[Steve102]

This I agree with. Never go against your grade/belief.

I have no proof. But my gut tells me they believe in Daniels/Maye enough to take them.

My guess is they won't tip their hand either way to maximize trade value if they decide to trade out. If they look at Maye/Daniels as another Christian Ponder, then they'll present how interested they are in taking the player and then trade out last minute for max value.

I'm trying to figure out what they'll do if Williams is there at 3 and Maye and Daniels go 1-2.

 

[Ivan]

Exactly.

If they are 100% against drafting Maye/Daniels at 3, they should not do it. Maybe they see something nobody else does. My guess is this isn't the case and they will absolutely draft one of those guys at three.

To me, if they grade those guys high enough, the bidding needs to start at three first rounders. Or two first rounders and a roster player (Jefferson) from Minnesota for example.

But..I'm still not ecen sure it's worth trading down that far for future assets. You may end up getting first round picks to move up...for a future franchise QB in a few years. Or, you get great in other areas. But are not that great at the QB spot. Dolphins are an example. They have a generational type receiver. Yet, haven't been close to winning even a playoff game. Because Tua needs more help around him than even a Burrow or Allen do. Let alone guys like Brady/Mahomes who can win with anyone.

Agree completely. The argument many here keep making, that they shouldn’t no take a QBbat 3 just because they need one is a strawman argument, because no one is suggesting they take on if they don’t believe in them, but if they do believe in them then Ithrre really isn’t any trade compensation that they should take, because nothing is worth giving away a franchise quarterback for, as once you have them you are good to go for the foreseeable future, and you can allocate all of your resources to building a team around them.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a franchise QB or even just a "good" QB does way more to improve your record than a good, great or even elite OT. Just taking a QB at #3 doesn't mean he's one of those guys you described though. He could just as easily be Byrce Young, Kenny Pickett, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold, etc. Drafting one of those types of guys means not only do you suck, but likely waste multiple seasons by trying to develop that crappy player before you give up.

Everyone understands that QB is the most important position and that you need to address is. That doesn't mean you just blindly take the best one at #3. You have to do an actual evaluation to determine if the guy is worth it.

Mahomes - Allen and Watson Third QB's taken from their respective Drafts says Hi.

 

[PatsFan2]

My guess is they won't tip their hand either way to maximize trade value if they decide to trade out. If they look at Maye/Daniels as another Christian Ponder, then they'll present how interested they are in taking the player and then trade out last minute for max value.

I'm trying to figure out what they'll do if Williams is there at 3 and Maye and Daniels go 1-2.

Give me Mahomes light.

 

[PatsFan2]

My guess is they won't tip their hand either way to maximize trade value if they decide to trade out. If they look at Maye/Daniels as another Christian Ponder, then they'll present how interested they are in taking the player and then trade out last minute for max value.

I'm trying to figure out what they'll do if Williams is there at 3 and Maye and Daniels go 1-2.

Seriously though I feel Daniels is the better prospect right now of all the QB's you can see it on tape he's going to be Mahomes tough.

 

[Steve102]

Give me Mahomes light.

I hear you. There's a lot of entitlement there that the previous regime would not have dealt with. I am not sure it's a slam dunk because of that.

Seriously though I feel Daniels is the better prospect right now of all the QB's you can see it on tape he's going to be Mahomes tough.

Maybe. that's the thing. None of it is a guarantee. MHJ is as close to a guarantee as there is. I am all in on MHJ at 3 and Nix at 34.

 

[Simpelton]

I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where taking Alt makes sense.

I recommend envisioning the 2002 Buccaneers who won the Superbowl more or less despite their quarterback (Brad Johnson wasnh't a terrible quarterback, but he was about the same level as prime Alex Smith), because they won in the trenches.

 

[PatsFan2]

I hear you. There's a lot of entitlement there that the previous regime would not have dealt with. I am not sure it's a slam dunk because of that.

Maybe. that's the thing. None of it is a guarantee. MHJ is as close to a guarantee as there is. I am all in on MHJ at 3 and Nix at 34.

I think Wolf follows the Green Bay mantra of Drafting at least one WR every other year. I think this year we are definitely double dipping may be triple dip this is the year to do it. MH Jr is a very good talent: that said we have some other guys Who's Dad played too and we can have them a little later Luke McCaffrey and Brenden Rice.

 

[Simpelton]

I don't think anyone is arguing that a franchise QB or even just a "good" QB does way more to improve your record than a good, great or even elite OT. Just taking a QB at #3 doesn't mean he's one of those guys you described though. He could just as easily be Byrce Young, Kenny Pickett, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Sam Darnold, etc. Drafting one of those types of guys means not only do you suck, but likely waste multiple seasons by trying to develop that crappy player before you give up.

Everyone understands that QB is the most important position and that you need to address is. That doesn't mean you just blindly take the best one at #3. You have to do an actual evaluation to determine if the guy is worth it.

AND whether you can support them properly. Example: Joe Burrow's career is on the verge of being wasted and Justin Herbert isn't looking so hot either. Those guys ARE franchise defining QBs but terrible roster management means they're getting blown up. Andrew Luck's career was cut short by the same level of incompetence and by the time they gave him a line he was already burnt to a crisp.

Your prospect can have all the talent he needs to succeed and if you can't put a good supporting cast around him it's totally moot. you can fail even with that kind of support (see also: Trey Lance) but there's always the chance that a guy who might have failed without that support will get it and blossom, the way Jordan Love has. that's why you set your quarterback up for success. I'm not convinced we're at the point where we could do that for any of the QB we could take in this draft which is why I'm interested in improving the offensive line so much.

I think that's a step we need to take either simultaneously with drafting a quarterback, or before we draft a quarterback. Waiting to do it afte may cost us our guy before we even have a chance to see what he is, the same way happened to Lance and nearly happened to Joe Burrow.

 

[PatsFan2]

AND whether you can support them properly. Example: Joe Burrow's career is on the verge of being wasted and Justin Herbert isn't looking so hot either. Those guys ARE franchise defining QBs but terrible roster management means they're getting blown up. Andrew Luck's career was cut short by the same level of incompetence and by the time they gave him a line he was already burnt to a crisp.

Your prospect can have all the talent he needs to succeed and if you can't put a good supporting cast around him it's totally moot. you can fail even with that kind of support (see also: Trey Lance) but there's always the chance that a guy who might have failed without that support will get it and blossom, the way Jordan Love has. that's why you set your quarterback up for success. I'm not convinced we're at the point where we could do that for any of the QB we could take in this draft which is why I'm interested in improving the offensive line so much.

I think that's a step we need to take either simultaneously with drafting a quarterback, or before we draft a quarterback. Waiting to do it afte may cost us our guy before we even have a chance to see what he is, the same way happened to Lance and nearly happened to Joe Burrow.

Speaking of Justin Herbert he was also a Third QB Taken Mahomes - Watson - Allen and Herbert all Third QB's taken Hmmmmm. I am not trying to convince or anything.

 

[VrabelJr]

It’s always the drafts where consensus is that QB is loaded where positions like FS, DT, OT, and DE end up producing some perennial All Pro

 

[upstater1]

I dunno man. Here's the PFF top 20 OTs currently and their draft position. Non R1 guys are in italics.

Trent Williams, 4th overall.
Lane Johnson, 4th overall
Laremy Tunsil, 13th overall
Andrew Thomas, 4th overall
Christain Darrisaw, 23rd overall
Jordan Mailata, 7th round
Tristian Wirfs, 13th overall
Kolton Miller, 15th overall
Rashawn Slater, 13th overall
Penei Sewell, 7th overall
Ryan Ramczyk, 32nd overall
Ronnie Stanley, 6th overall
Davis Bakhtiara 4th round
Orlando Brown Jr, 3rd round
Braden Smith, 2nd round
Brian O'Neill, 2nd round
Terron Armstead, 3rd round
Jake Matthews, 6th overall
Taylor Decker, 16th overall
Morgan Moses, 3rd round

I get what your saying about the QB and the importance of the position, and you are correct, QB is the most important. It comes down to believing in your guy at 3. If they believe Maye or Daniels is a franchise transformative player, then they should 100% take them at 3. If they don't, dominant OTs generally go in the 1st round. It's like everything else, the top of R1 should be a dominant player, be it a QB (Williams, Daniels, Maye) or MHJ at WR. If they don't believe in those guys are franchise cornerstone types, and they believe Alt is, then you take Alt. It's really as simple as this is where those guys are drafted. You might be able to trade back a little of you want Alt, but not too far. My guess is it's either one of MHJ, Daniels, Maye, or trade back to add picks and get a very good player or players later in the round.

There are a lot of busts or guys on the road to bust at tackle as well. Just look at the top 10 of the 2022 draft and look at the WRs that those teams passed to select their bust tackle.

 

[stardawg]

This I agree with. Never go against your grade/belief.

I have no proof. But my gut tells me they believe in Daniels/Maye enough to take them.

I think you're right they're going QB at #3.