Should the Pats bring Brandon Lloyd back?

[Deus Irae]

Reject my plan if you must.

MY PLAN.....
D) Sign a WR to replace Lloyd if we decide not to pay his option, which option may be a major upgrade or simply a better fitting wide receiver...

Again, unless you've got names, you've got nothing and your plan is garbage. It's easy to say "replace X in free agency". The question is who you replace him with.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

I have a question, where is stallworth going, he provided the deep threat on the Texans and cashed in a TD?

 

[mgteich]

OK, your position is simply ignorant or obtuse. To believe that looking for an upgrade during the first week is a non-starter because I don't know who Belichick will want is simply ridiculous. Personally, I think arguing about specific free agents may be fun for some, but not for me. I am interested in which positions we should upgrade and how much we are willing to spend, and the timing of when we must make decisions. I take the same position with regard to the draft. I usually don't discuss players; rather I focus on positions and trading picks.
======================
There are at least a dozen players who will be available who Belichick may believe is a substitute for Lloyd and who might be willing to sign at an amount within Belichick's budget. Just go to any list and take the top twenty. Obviously, some will not be available. Obviously Belichick will judge that some will not be a good fit.

I do NOT know the seriousness of the team's issues with Lloyd. If they are serious, he's gone, period. I do NOT know who will be available when free agency starts. There will be tags and re-signs in the next couple of weeks. I do NOT know who will be willing to sign at a within-budget/value contract. I do NOT know who will fit best.

What I do know is that we should sign Welker and Edelman, draft a top receiver or two, and bring in a dozen low-level free agent wide receivers.

THE LLOYD DECISION IS NOT ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE UNTIL BELICHICK CHECKS OUT THE MARKET.

Again, unless you've got names, you've got nothing and your plan is garbage. It's easy to say "replace X in free agency". The question is who you replace him with.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, your position is simply ignorant or obtuse. To believe that looking for an upgrade during the first week is a non-starter because I don't know who Belichick will want is simply ridiculous.

No, what was ignorant or obtuse was your response towards those who voted "absolutely", when there was no regular "yes" option. I was just pointing out one reason why. That reply led to to reject your plan, not Belichick's.

 

[Deus Irae]

...There are at least a dozen players who will be available who Belichick may believe is a substitute for Lloyd and who might be willing to sign at an amount within Belichick's budget...

Yet you can't name a single one that fits your own criteria and is currently available.....

Welker and moss were trades, so.....

When was the last time the BB era Patriots brought in a free agent who had a more productive season than lloyd? How many such players have there been in the BB era?

 

[Triumph]

OK, your position is simply ignorant or obtuse. To believe that looking for an upgrade during the first week is a non-starter because I don't know who Belichick will want is simply ridiculous. Personally, I think arguing about specific free agents may be fun for some, but not for me. I am interested in which positions we should upgrade and how much we are willing to spend, and the timing of when we must make decisions. I take the same position with regard to the draft. I usually don't discuss players; rather I focus on positions and trading picks.
======================
There are at least a dozen players who will be available who Belichick may believe is a substitute for Lloyd and who might be willing to sign at an amount within Belichick's budget. Just go to any list and take the top twenty. Obviously, some will not be available. Obviously Belichick will judge that some will not be a good fit.

I do NOT know the seriousness of the team's issues with Lloyd. If they are serious, he's gone, period. I do NOT know who will be available when free agency starts. There will be tags and re-signs in the next couple of weeks. I do NOT know who will be willing to sign at a within-budget/value contract. I do NOT know who will fit best.

What I do know is that we should sign Welker and Edelman, draft a top receiver or two, and bring in a dozen low-level free agent wide receivers.

THE LLOYD DECISION IS NOT ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE UNTIL BELICHICK CHECKS OUT THE MARKET.

Right on MG.

People here act like Lloyd has the midas touch or something. Foolishness. Brandon Gibson would be worth a look and theres always surprise cuts around the NFL.

Brandon Gibson Brandon Gibson, WR, Free Agent
Steve Breaston Steve Breaston, WR, Free Agent
Josh Cribbs Joshua Cribbs, WR, Free Agent

Would you give a 1st for Cruz? No more deep threat issues.
Victor Cruz Victor Cruz, WR, New York Giants

Brian Hartline if he ever comes down from his crack high.
Brian Hartline, WR, Free Agent

Mohamed Massaquoi Mohamed Massaquoi, WR, Free Agent
Kevin Ogletree Kevin Ogletree, WR, Dallas Cowboys

How about a 3rd for Emmanuel Sanders?
Emmanuel Sanders, WR, Pittsburgh Steelers

KFFL - 2013 NFL Free Agents

 

[ausbacker]

Again, unless you've got names, you've got nothing and your plan is garbage. It's easy to say "replace X in free agency". The question is who you replace him with.

This isn't a reasonable post Deus. It seems to me that you're on the warpath of late.

Whilst I agree that having an identified replacement by name is preferential, mgteich's forwarding of a plan is reasonable. Filling it out with the details as they come to light isn't a difficult task.

 

[Triumph]

Yet you can't name a single one that fits your own criteria and is currently available.....

Welker and moss were trades, so.....

When was the last time the BB era Patriots brought in a free agent who had a more productive season than lloyd? How many such players have there been in the BB era?

If Lloyd is so productive then why is he packing his bags?

 

[IllegalContact]

Should the Pats bring Lloyd back?

Yet you can't name a single one that fits your own criteria and is currently available.....

Welker and moss were trades, so.....

When was the last time the BB era Patriots brought in a free agent who had a more productive season than lloyd? How many such players have there been in the BB era?

Relatively speaking? David patten

But then again, they never really tried

I think there's more to it though......4 of his 5 best games were losses.....he average 40 ypg in wins and most of the time was invisible. Ocho would have done as much if they threw to him that many times.

There's a reason he's been with 5 teams.....

Bring in breaston and get more for less

 

[Deus Irae]

This isn't a reasonable post Deus. It seems to me that you're on the warpath of late.

Whilst I agree that having an identified replacement by name is preferential, mgteich's forwarding of a plan is reasonable. Filling it out with the details as they come to light isn't a difficult task.

I'm not on the warpath at all, and his "plan" was in response to his bashing those who'd voted absolutely when there was no simple "yes/no" option in the poll. His "plan" has a provision for which he can not give one example.

It's easy to say "Just replace Lloyd with someone who'll be better for the same price". That's not really a plan. That's a wish. They're still trying to replace Samuel, Seymour, Moss etc....

 

[Deus Irae]

If Lloyd is so productive then why is he packing his bags?

Read the stories. It's made pretty clear.

 

[Deus Irae]

Relatively speaking? David patten

I assume you realize that Patten came in more than a decade ago, so you understand my point.

But then again, they never really tried

They've been trying since the day BB arrived.

I think there's more to it though......4 of his 5 best games were losses.....he average 40 ypg in wins and most of the time was invisible. Ocho would have done as much if they threw to him that many times.

Good comedy here, I'll give you that.

There's a reason he's been with 5 teams.....

That's competely irrelevant to the point.

Bring in breaston and get more for less

Have you not seen Breaston play his last 4 years?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Outside of Cruz and druggie Hartline once, none of the proposed replacements have ever caught much more than half the annual receptions of Lloyd. I doubt any will be available at Lloyd's price, (including dead money), either.

As for Cruz, he wants more than $12 million/year, not 2-4 million.

 

[mgteich]

I guess your point is that we have never paid for a top receiver, so we will fail if we do??????

I agree that we should not presume that we can find someone better than Lloyd. I agree that $4M a year doesn't buy much.

There are two key issues.

One is that Lloyd may be gone in any case.

The second is to speculate with regard to how much we should be willing to pay for a receiver, whether Lloyd is an option or not. BTW, I do NOT believe that we can replace Lloyd's production for the same price.

Yet you can't name a single one that fits your own criteria and is currently available.....

Welker and moss were trades, so.....

When was the last time the BB era Patriots brought in a free agent who had a more productive season than lloyd? How many such players have there been in the BB era?

 

[Triumph]

Read the stories. It's made pretty clear.

I have read the stories and there are more issues than his personality.

Avoiding contact and not finding his niche in the offense fall under the production column. Evidently Lloyd isnt as productive as you make him out to be.

Furthermore, he dropped 43% of the passes that came by way of a HOF QB resulting in a 57% catch rate. Thats also a production issue. Brandon Gibson caught 62% of his passes with a greater yards per reception than Lloyd and more TDs. So, Gibson would be equal if not better than Lloyd, younger and less expensive.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm not on the warpath at all, and his "plan" was in response to his bashing those who'd voted absolutely when there was no simple "yes/no" option in the poll. His "plan" has a provision for which he can not give one example.

It's easy to say "Just replace Lloyd with someone who'll be better for the same price". That's not really a plan. That's a wish. They're still trying to replace Samuel, Seymour, Moss etc....

You want specifics and that's fine. That shouldn't incite a post of rage when the outline of a plan is reasonable.

 

[Triumph]

Have you not seen Breaston play his last 4 years?

Have you seen a QB in KC these last 2 years?

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess your point is that we have never paid for a top receiver, so we will fail if we do??????

I agree that we should not presume that we can find someone better than Lloyd. I agree that $4M a year doesn't buy much.

There are two key issues.

One is that Lloyd may be gone in any case.

The second is to speculate with regard to how much we should be willing to pay for a receiver, whether Lloyd is an option or not. BTW, I do NOT believe that we can replace Lloyd's production for the same price.

No, my point was that if you're going to talk about replacing Lloyd with another player in the same price range, and getting the same production, you need to have examples of players that might work. Without that, you're basically doing to equivalent of saying that you're "planning" to solve your budget woes by winning the Powerball lottery. This is, after all, a Patriots team that can basically point to Brandon Lloyd as the most productive FA WR signing in the Bill Belichick era.

 

[Deus Irae]

You want specifics and that's fine. That shouldn't incite a post of rage when the outline of a plan is reasonable.

There was no post of rage. However, you might have missed the post I was responding to, where mgteich began with

OK, your position is simply ignorant or obtuse.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have read the stories and there are more issues than his personality.

Avoiding contact and not finding his niche in the offense fall under the production column. Evidently Lloyd isnt as productive as you make him out to be.

Furthermore, he dropped 43% of the passes that came by way of a HOF QB resulting in a 57% catch rate. Thats also a production issue. Brandon Gibson caught 62% of his passes with a greater yards per reception than Lloyd and more TDs. So, Gibson would be equal if not better than Lloyd, younger and less expensive.

The production was fine. I don't make his production out to be any more, or less, than it was.

Have you seen a QB in KC these last 2 years?

Yes, and that doesn't excuse Breaston's inability to even see the field for most of this past season.