Shotgun used more than half the snaps in 2007-2008

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I love how this argument has continued from the thread, "Brady being the most hit QB in the league". Here's what's up, Brady gets hit a lot. I've said this before, but it was mind boggling to see the Pats come out in four WR sets against the Chiefs when Brady was coming off of an ankle injury and getting pounded in the super bowl. In addition, the Pats O-line was extremely shaky in the pre-season. Yes, the Pats probably upgraded the TE position for several reasons. First, Watson needs some competition and might walk in 2010. Second, David Thomas just isn't getting it done. The additions of Baker brings better blocking and Alex Smith brings his receiving ability. Also, the addition of Fred Taylor replaces LaMont Jordan and could signal the Pats continuing their platoon at RB. In the end, I will be extremely shocked if the Pats come out in four WR sets to start the game on Monday night against the Bills. Hopefully, the Pats use more two TE sets and a heavy ground game to limit the amount of hits on Brady. I'd rather see the Pats grind out the clock and score, instead of seeing them try to score in 3 plays on every drive.

 

[maverick4]

Hopefully, the Pats use more two TE sets and a heavy ground game to limit the amount of hits on Brady.

This is definitely going to happen, look at how we added two veteran tight ends, a veteran running back, and upgraded the O-line. Am *very excited* for the upcoming season.

I don't hate McDaniels, in fact he is now my FAVORITE Patriots ex-coordinator, a trojan horse for us. Here is Rick Reilly talking about some more lack of awareness, stubbornness/close-mindedness/arrogance, and naivete in using all his picks on only people he worked out:

Things I Yell at the TV: 4/29/09 - ESPN The Magazine

McKid isn't BB. Belichick lacks social grace, but is a master of situational awareness when it comes to football, maybe the best ever.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

This is definitely going to happen, look at how we added two veteran tight ends, a veteran running back, and upgraded the O-line.

I don't hate McDaniels, in fact he is now my FAVORITE Patriots ex-coordinator, a trojan horse for us. Here is Rick Reilly talking about some more lack of awareness, stubbornness/close-mindedness, and naivete in using all his picks on people he worked out:

Things I Yell at the TV: 4/29/09 - ESPN The Magazine

True that! When I saw that on draft day, I couldn't believe it. First, McDaniels trades his franchise QB, then he trades a future 1st round pick for a slow-smurf CB in the second round. McDaniels was good in NE, but he will get canned within 3 years from coaching the Broncos. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets canned after next season. Even if Cutler was a prick, you find a way to make it work. McDaniels freaked out and it's going to cost him.

 

[unoriginal]

I don't hate McDaniels, in fact he is now my FAVORITE Patriots ex-coordinator, a trojan horse for us. Here is Rick Reilly talking about some more lack of awareness, stubbornness/close-mindedness/arrogance, and naivete in using all his picks on only people he worked out:

Things I Yell at the TV: 4/29/09 - ESPN The Magazine

That should be interpreted as McDaniels' attempt to learn from BB's mistakes, as when BB went into the 2000 NFL Draft working off Grier's scouting board and ended up with an upside-down draft because the only picks that worked out were stuff his coaching staff convinced him to take fliers on in the late rounds.

 

[Deus Irae]

What happened to "This is not about McDaniels."?


See petard, hoist

 

[maverick4]

What happened to "This is not about McDaniels."?

The thread has gone so far off track from the first few pages, when it was actually focused on shot gun, offense, and debating styles which win.

McDaniels trolls like yourself derailed the thread.

 

[Rob0729]

I love how this argument has continued from the thread, "Brady being the most hit QB in the league". Here's what's up, Brady gets hit a lot. I've said this before, but it was mind boggling to see the Pats come out in four WR sets against the Chiefs when Brady was coming off of an ankle injury and getting pounded in the super bowl. In addition, the Pats O-line was extremely shaky in the pre-season. Yes, the Pats probably upgraded the TE position for several reasons. First, Watson needs some competition and might walk in 2010. Second, David Thomas just isn't getting it done. The additions of Baker brings better blocking and Alex Smith brings his receiving ability. Also, the addition of Fred Taylor replaces LaMont Jordan and could signal the Pats continuing their platoon at RB. In the end, I will be extremely shocked if the Pats come out in four WR sets to start the game on Monday night against the Bills. Hopefully, the Pats use more two TE sets and a heavy ground game to limit the amount of hits on Brady. I'd rather see the Pats grind out the clock and score, instead of seeing them try to score in 3 plays on every drive.

Why was it mind boggling that the Pats would come out in a 4 receiver set vs. the Chiefs. Especially since they didn't have much of a pass rush the year before and their CBs were older and slower. I have shown video of the hit before that showed that the protection was solid and Brady didn't hold onto the ball that long. It was a freak accident where everyone did everything right (except Moss fumbling the pass) and the defender was lucky to get up after being blocked to the ground and lunge at Brady. It could have happened on a quick screen with max protect.

I would be extremely shocked if the Pats don't use the 4 WR set a lot especially when they spent a lot of attention on WR during the offseason to upgrade the depth at the position including adding a burner like Galloway. It looks like to me that they are trying to accomplish what they tried with Stallworth two years ago. They want to have two outside burners which will leave Moss in a lot of one on one match ups deep. The addition of Galloway tells me that the spread is going to survive the loss of McDaniels.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why was it mind boggling that the Pats would come out in a 4 receiver set vs. the Chiefs. Especially since they didn't have much of a pass rush the year before and their CBs were older and slower. I have shown video of the hit before that showed that the protection was solid and Brady didn't hold onto the ball that long. It was a freak accident where everyone did everything right (except Moss fumbling the pass) and the defender was lucky to get up after being blocked to the ground and lunge at Brady. It could have happened on a quick screen with max protect.

I would be extremely shocked if the Pats don't use the 4 WR set a lot especially when they spent a lot of attention on WR during the offseason to upgrade the depth at the position including adding a burner like Galloway. It looks like to me that they are trying to accomplish what they tried with Stallworth two years ago. They want to have two outside burners which will leave Moss in a lot of one on one match ups deep. The addition of Galloway tells me that the spread is going to survive the loss of McDaniels.

Galloway was signed so that he and Moss can really block hard in 2 wr sets. Welker is going to become just a part-time player now.

 

[Rob0729]

True that! When I saw that on draft day, I couldn't believe it. First, McDaniels trades his franchise QB, then he trades a future 1st round pick for a slow-smurf CB in the second round. McDaniels was good in NE, but he will get canned within 3 years from coaching the Broncos. Even if Cutler was a prick, you find a way to make it work. McDaniels freaked out and it's going to cost him.

Cutler is highly overrated. He is a less talented Brett Favre and we see how many costly mistakes Favre can make now that his skills are deteriorating. McDaniels runs a complicated offense and Culter is knon not to put the film work in. Cutler was a bad fit for McDaniels' offense and the Broncos are going to be better off without him. Cutler's numbers are overrated because he had a lot of yards because the Broncos' defense was so bad. He was second in the league in INTs.

As for Alphonso Smith, the Pats have been living on slow smurfs at CB in the Belichick era. Look at Asante Samuel. Or Ty Law (granted he was slightly bigger than a smurf at 5-11, but not a big CB). Smith could end up being a horrible pick, but he also may be a solid player. He was the second or third ranked CB on most mock drafts.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Galloway was signed so that he and Moss can really block hard in 2 wr sets. Welker is going to become just a part-time player now.

You can be sarcastic all you want but Brady was injured twice in three games from the 2007 season and 2008 season. He severally injured his ankle against the Chargers and obviously didn't look right during the super bowl. Finally, his knee was ripped to shreds against KC in the opener. We will see how sarcastic you are when the same thing happens again after the coaching staff puts Brady in four and five wide sets after coming off of a major injury.

 

[maverick4]

We will see how sarcastic you are when the same thing happens again after the coaching staff puts Brady in four and five wide sets after he is coming off of a major injury.

Not gonna happen, BB and O'Brien are going to protect Brady more. Injury may happen to Kyle Orton though, that guy is going to start getting hit a ton, like a punching bag like Brady's been hit the past few years.

One thing you'll notice about these trolls is they are biased beyond belief for McDaniels. They'll even argue that shotgun protects the QB and reduces hits, and see no relationship between our disproportionate use of shotgun, with Brady having league-leading "hits while throwing".

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...tom-brady-most-hit-qb-league-2006-2007-a.html

 

[Deus Irae]

You can be sarcastic all you want but Brady was injured twice in three games from the 2007 season and 2008 season. He severally injured his ankle against the Chargers and obviously didn't look right during the super bowl. Finally, his knee was ripped to shreds against KC in the opener. We will see how sarcastic you are when the same thing happens again after the coaching staff puts Brady in four and five wide sets after he is coming off of a major injury.

Brady must be the only QB to ever be injured, then, right, and Brady's never gone into 4 wide situations prior to the winter of 2007-2008?

Hey, when Rivers shredded his knee, was he playing for the Patriots out of their spread formations? How about Carson Palmer? When Lawrence Taylor ended Theisman's career, was McDaniels calling the plays for the Redksins?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Brady must be the only QB to ever be injured, then, right, and Brady's never gone into 4 wide situations prior to the winter of 2007-2008?

Hey, when Rivers shredded his knee, was he playing for the Patriots out of their spread formations. How about Carson Palmer? When Lawrence Taylor ended Theisman's career, was McDaniels calling the plays for the Redksins?

They aren't in shotgun as much as Brady is. All I'm saying is, it would be flat out stupid to put a guy in shotgun on most plays after coming off of a major injury. If the Pats continue right where they left off, they're asking for it.

 

[maverick4]

and Brady's never gone into 4 wide situations prior to the winter of 2007-2008?

Yeah :::eye roll::: there is no link whatsoever between the disproportionate use of shotgun (for MOST of our passes) and spread formations, and the fact that Brady led the league multiple years in "hits while throwing". The only valid link is claiming our winning records were due to our ex-coordinator and due to use of the shotgun, not anything else (like, say... amazing offensive talent).

 

[Deus Irae]

They aren't in shotgun as much as Brady is. All I'm saying is, it would be flat out stupid to put a guy in shotgun on most plays after coming off of a major injury. If the Pats continue right where they left off, they're asking for it.

Great. Can you please find an injury breakdown by wideout number

1 WR
2 WR
3 WR
4 WR
5 WR

in shotgun and under center?

Maybe you could also show me one involving tight ends and running backs, too, since you seem to know about the inherent dangers of the shotgun formation...?

 

[maverick4]

Great. Can you please find an injury breakdown by wideout number

1 WR
2 WR
3 WR
4 WR
5 WR

in shotgun and under center?

Maybe you could also show me one involving tight ends and running backs, too, since you seem to know about the inherent dangers of the shotgun formation...?

Ignore this guy, he always goes way off on tangents which make no sense because he doesn't understand what people are talking about.

The fact that you bring up QB risk and he talks about wide receiver injuries, shows how clueless he is. It's like the "hits on QB's while throwing" thread where he then brought up QB rating - he's a funny clown. When he's losing arguments, he asks you to provide stats which he knows don't exist. But when those stats are brought up, he dismisses them as meaningless. It's a waste of your time.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Great. Can you please find an injury breakdown by wideout number

1 WR
2 WR
3 WR
4 WR
5 WR

in shotgun and under center?

Maybe you could also show me one involving tight ends and running backs, too, since you seem to know about the inherent dangers of the shotgun formation...?

Maverick4 is right, what the hell does this have to do with what we're talking about?

 

[Deus Irae]

Maverick4 is right, what the hell does this have to do with my argument?

You're blaming the shotgun for higher injury rates, aren't you? So, let's see the QB injury rates for all the possible combinations.

Surely you have them, since you know that the shotgun is more likely to lead to injury.

 

[jmt57]

Well since it is vitally important to keep Brady from being hit, perhaps the Pats should limit him to no more than ten passes per game. Standard formation could be a two-RB, two-TE set. And on those few times the Pats do pass, bring in the long snapper and line Brady up like a punter fifteen yards behind center; that will save wear and tear on his knees from having to drop back and set up. Better yet, let's just put him on PUP and save him for the second half of the season.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah :::eye roll::: there is no link whatsoever between the disproportionate use of shotgun (for MOST of our passes) and spread formations, and the fact that Brady led the league multiple years in "hits while throwing". The only valid link is claiming our winning records were due to our ex-coordinator and due to use of the shotgun, not anything else (like, say... amazing offensive talent).

He didnt lead the league multiple years,he led it once, your article shows that.
Until you include sacks and hits after releasing the ball, you have no point.
There is absolutely no question that the shotgun's purpose is to give the QB moe time to throw. What do you think the purpose of the shotgun is?
You want an incomplete stat to be proof of what you want it to be but nothing else can be proof of anything you don't want to believe.
Your standards are totally biased.