Shotgun used more than half the snaps in 2007-2008

[DaBruinz]

Actually I think Belichick has already 'gotten it', I just enjoy talking to clowns here so their posts look silly a year from now. Look at Belichick's moves, his priority the moment free agency started was to acquire Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, draft multiple O-linemen including using high picks.

It'll be icing on the cake to see these ball washers react after their ex-coordinator, who is doing a great job displaying more situational dis-awareness, fall on his face.

So, let me get this straight. You think that the moves Belichick has made (Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, Joey Galloway, drafting multiple O-linemen) was ONLY because the shot gun formation was a failure?

I beg to differ. In fact, I think those players shows that Belichick is going to continue the trend of using the shot gun formation. The addition of Baker and Smith gives Belichick additional blockers so that he can actually use the running game more effectively out of the Shot gun. Adding Galloway and Lewis gives Belichick 2 more weapons to use in the spread offense. The youth on the O-line is needed because Neal is in the last year of his contract as are Mankins and Kaczur. Hochstein is only on a one year deal and Yates has regressed each of the last 2 years. Britt is about done and O'Callaghan has spent more time injured than he has playing.

BTW, what is all this "situational unawareness" you are talking about? You mean the stuff that you have unfairly and ignorantly attributed to him that was proven not to be him?

 

[maverick4]

So, let me get this straight. You think that the moved Belichick has made (Fred Taylor, Chris Baker, Alex Smith, drafting multiple O-linemen) was ONLY because the shot gun formation was a failure?

I beg to differ. In fact, I think those players shows that Belichick is going to continue the trend of using the shot gun formation. The addition of Baker and Smith gives Belichick additional blockers so that he can actually use the running game more effectively out of the Shot gun. Adding Galloway and Lewis gives Belichick 2 more weapons to use in the spread offense.

Yeah, adding a talented veteran RB, two veteran tight ends, and spending high picks on the o-line is a definite sign of Belichick's commitment for more shot gun :::rolls eyes:::
You are literally so insane and biased that you'll spin ANYTHING. You must be a real treat when discussing politics, it must be like talking to the most partisan brick wall ever.

I never said the shot gun was a failure. That's you twisting/making more stuff up (a clear pattern from you) because you seriously suck at debating using concrete arguments. The shot gun puts up monster stats, but it's flawed. It's a subtle statement that is flying over your head.

 

[maverick4]

BTW, what is all this "situational unawareness" you are talking about? You mean the stuff that you have unfairly and ignorantly attributed to him that was proven not to be him?

Yet more miscomprehension from you, I suspect deliberate as no one can be this obtuse.

It doesn't matter anymore since the ex-OC is on another team now (thank God), but you know that I think lack of situational awareness is an inability or unwillingness to adapt week to week (like our chameleon-like teams from 01-04), to self scout, to recognize flaws while in-game and to make adjustments. These types of stubborn coaches figure out a successful strategy, then use the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, relying on talent and execution.

A lack of situational awareness was also evident in the final drive of 2007: need 40 yards for a tying FG, have all 3 time outs, arguably the best QB and offensive talent in history, and with that we call 4 straight bombs to piss away the game.

It appears the lack of situation awareness, context, and adaption spills over outside of the field for this person as well:
Broncos players don't trust McDaniels | Truth&Rumors | FanNation

 

[efin98]

Actually, the first few pages had no mention of our ex-OC and were focused on the topic of shotgun and comparing it to other sports. Only after the email alert to all the 'the offense is being criticized' McDaniels ball-washers came in, with their own accusations and first bringing up their favorite coordinator into this thread, did the discussion get diverted.

Keep making stuff up though, I know it's part of your usual tactic/cycle:
- blow hard making initial condescending statements
- act like a petulant child, start throwing insults the moment anyone disagrees with you
- make odd generalizations, ad hominem once your argument is lost.

No matter how you disguise it, anyone with an ounce of football knowledge can see what you are really complaining about.

Keep claiming it's not about him, your topics are stating themselves that it is.

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually, the first few pages had no mention of our ex-OC and were focused on the topic of shotgun and comparing it to other sports. Only after the email alert to all the 'the offense is being criticized' McDaniels ball-washers came in, with their own accusations and first bringing up their favorite coordinator into this thread, did the discussion get diverted.

Keep making stuff up though, I know it's part of your usual tactic/cycle:
- blow hard making initial condescending statements
- act like a petulant child, start throwing insults the moment anyone disagrees with you
- make odd generalizations, ad hominem once your argument is lost.

1) There was no email alert. That is you being paranoid.
2) You are the one continuously acting like the petulant child with the insults. You were throwing them at people long before anyone else.
3) You are the only one who has lost the argument. Not myself. And not efin or anyone else..

I find it amazingly funny that you continuously lie, yet you blame everyone else. You are the person who can't comprehend what other people say and regularly misquote or just fabricate what they said.

You've yet to make an adequate argument about why the offense that provided this team with a 16-0 perfect regular season and a 27-5 record over the last two years is the issue.

 

[RDS11]

A lack of situational awareness was also evident in the final drive of 2007: need 40 yards for a tying FG, have all 3 time outs, arguably the best QB and offensive talent in history, and with that we call 4 straight bombs to piss away the game.

It appears the lack of situation awareness, context, and adaption spills over outside of the field for this person as well:
Broncos players don't trust McDaniels | Truth&Rumors | FanNation

Yeah, I remember that well...McDaniels said to Brady to stay off the fields, and took his place instead in order to throw those 4 passes.

Of course, Brady who can opt out of any plays and can audible when he feels like he should, went ahead with those plays. But only McDaniels is blamed here...

 

[Rob0729]

Football Outsiders just disporved maverick's theory that the Pats were a vertical team under McDaniels, at least last year with hint to previous years:

New England led the NFL with 6.2 average yards after catch, more than half a yard better than the Saints, who finished second. This had a lot to do with the one area Cassel found exceedingly difficult all year – the long bomb to Randy Moss. To compensate, the Pats led the league in receiver and tight end screens, using the plays 30 percent more than any team. This should even out with Brady’s return – New England was a YAC team before, but not to such an extreme degree.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2009/07/outsiders_on_pa_3.html

I guess this has to do with McDaniels' lack of situational awareness and stubborness to revise his gameplan. So the Pats led the league by 30% in the number of screen passes to compensate for Cassel's weaknesses. I guess it was Belichick who told McDaniels to revise his gameplan. But I am sure this is a silly useless stat unlike the number of hits Brady had.

 

[maverick4]

Yeah, I remember that well...McDaniels said to Brady to stay off the fields, and took his place instead in order to throw those 4 passes.

Of course, Brady who can opt out of any plays and can audible when he feels like he should, went ahead with those plays. But only McDaniels is blamed here...

Interesting, so it's Brady's fault for those play calls? Sounds like you're suggesting McKid didn't really do too much while on the team except piggy back off of the talent of his players.

 

[maverick4]

I guess this has to do with McDaniels' lack of situational awareness and stubborness to revise his gameplan.

That article doesn't disprove anything. I've said before he comes in with decent game plans pre-game, but that he isn't as adept during the game in identifying and making adjustments.

Funny that you're commenting in a thread talking about how the Pats loved to use shot gun over 50% of the total plays, including an overwhelming amount of his pass plays... yet you remain silent over whether that was a bad thing in any way, or how it might possibly be linked to why Brady was hit the most in the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

That article doesn't disprove anything. I've said before he comes in with decent game plans pre-game, but that he isn't as adept during the game in identifying and making adjustments.

Funny that you're commenting in a thread talking about how the Pats loved to use shot gun over 50% of the total plays, including an overwhelming amount of his pass plays... yet you remain silent over whether that was a bad thing in any way, or how it might possibly be linked to why Brady was hit the most in the league.

So, do you actually wear the red nose and big shoes when you post, or would that just be metaphorical?

 

[DaBruinz]

Yeah, adding a talented veteran RB, two veteran tight ends, and spending high picks on the o-line is a definite sign of Belichick's commitment for more shot gun :::rolls eyes:::
You are literally so insane and biased that you'll spin ANYTHING. You must be a real treat when discussing politics, it must be like talking to the most partisan brick wall ever.

I never said the shot gun was a failure. That's you twisting/making more stuff up (a clear pattern from you) because you seriously suck at debating using concrete arguments. The shot gun puts up monster stats, but it's flawed. It's a subtle statement that is flying over your head.

Did they add a fullback? No. They added another running back who was better than the 4th and 5th running backs they had last year.

In the TEs, they added 2 guys who should be upgrades over the 2nd, 3rd and 4th TEs they had last year. Oh, did we mention that Belichick likes to plan for the future when the talent available allows for it? Yes. That's right. Belichick knows that his 2 starting TEs from the 2008 season will be UFAs in 2010.

Spending high picks on the O-line? He spent a 2nd round pick on an offensive tackle because he knows that his starting LT is 31 and that his starting RT has had some issues and will be a UFA at the end of the 2009 season. Spending a 4th and a 5th on a C/G and a G/T is Belichick not being pleased with the depth of his O-line. Its also why the Pats brought in Al Johnson. See, its not spin to remember the Neal will be a UFA at the end of the season and that Neal is also injury prone. So, having a replacement on board that is potentially better than Hochstein or Yates is sound management.

Maverick the only person doing spinning here is yourself. You are the one who continues to insist in every thread you start that the offense the Pats ran is an issue.

 

[DaBruinz]

Yet more miscomprehension from you, I suspect deliberate as no one can be this obtuse.

Considering that you are the ignorant person who insists on making up words because you don't know them, you are hardly one to be calling another obtuse. Secondly, my comprehension is light years ahead of yours. And its been proven time and again.

It doesn't matter anymore since the ex-OC is on another team now (thank God), but you know that I think lack of situational awareness is an inability or unwillingness to adapt week to week (like our chameleon-like teams from 01-04), to self scout, to recognize flaws while in-game and to make adjustments. These types of stubborn coaches figure out a successful strategy, then use the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, relying on talent and execution.

You seem to forget that Belichick is the one with the final say. If he felt that McDaniels was an issue, he'd have taken over the offense much like he took over the defense from Mangini.

A lack of situational awareness was also evident in the final drive of 2007: need 40 yards for a tying FG, have all 3 time outs, arguably the best QB and offensive talent in history, and with that we call 4 straight bombs to piss away the game.

This is proof that you do not understand the Patriots offense. McDaniels calls in the general formation and the play he'd like Brady to run. However, because of the on field adjustments that Brady and the receivers are expected to make, there could be any number of different plays run from the same formation. This is what you continue to not understand. This has been your fallacy every time you've attacked the Patriots offense. You don't understand what you are talking about. You just don't. Plain and simple. What you blame on McDaniels you should be blaming on Brady, if anyone.

It appears the lack of situation awareness, context, and adaption spills over outside of the field for this person as well:
Broncos players don't trust McDaniels | Truth&Rumors | FanNation

I bet that you believed it when that nitwit from ESPN claimed "They hate their coach" after the 2003 opener when the Pats lost to the Bills as well.

First off, Cutler and Marshall were both cry babies. And its been proven since then by several players who have come out and said so. If you want to believe everything you read, so be it. Just makes you look the fool more often than not.

 

[DaBruinz]

That article doesn't disprove anything. I've said before he comes in with decent game plans pre-game, but that he isn't as adept during the game in identifying and making adjustments.

Funny that you're commenting in a thread talking about how the Pats loved to use shot gun over 50% of the total plays, including an overwhelming amount of his pass plays... yet you remain silent over whether that was a bad thing in any way, or how it might possibly be linked to why Brady was hit the most in the league.

Except that we know that Brady wasn't the most hit in the league. Just by the fact that Palmer actually took more sacks than Brady over that same time frame. Keep on spewing your stupidity. I enjoy pointing out how wrong you are.

 

[Patjew]

I can't believe that the rest of you don't have this "human" on ignore also.

This thread should be closed down as well. It's a joke.

 

[Deus Irae]

I can't believe that the rest of you don't have this "human" on ignore also.

This thread should be closed down as well. It's a joke.

Good point. I'll put him there.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I can't believe that the rest of you don't have this "human" on ignore also.

This thread should be closed down as well. It's a joke.

I put him there a couple days ago, and these threads became even funnier as a result. You already know what points he's going to attempt to make, since he's been dragging out the same argument over and over again no matter how many times it gets disproven. So now it's just a stream of posts blowing his arguments out of the water, uninterrupted by his feeble efforts to pretend that all of the counterpoints don't exist.

 

[maverick4]

Did they add a fullback? No. They added another running back who was better than the 4th and 5th running backs they had last year.

In the TEs, they added 2 guys who should be upgrades over the 2nd, 3rd and 4th TEs they had last year. Oh, did we mention that Belichick likes to plan for the future when the talent available allows for it? Yes. That's right. Belichick knows that his 2 starting TEs from the 2008 season will be UFAs in 2010.

And this proves your previous desperate assertion that Belichick added these guys as a sign of his faith to continue using MORE shotgun... HOW?????

 

[maverick4]

This thread should be closed down as well.

Yeah, talking about the Patriots use of shotgun is so off topic, from what you're using to writing.

You're just still hurt that the last few crappy threads you've made (mostly nothing related about the NFL or Patriots, or self-serving threads talking about your own post count), I asked why they were in the main Pats forum. Funny, I thought you made a pissy thread a few months ago swearing you were leaving. I guess your word counts as much as the irrelevant threads you make as well.

I hope you guys put me on ignore. I've had about a half dozen of you on ignore for months already, and it's makes things easier to read them all in a bunch, knowing they're going to just be parroting the same old tired, baseless defenses of Josh McDaniels.

 

[Patjew]

I put him there a couple days ago, and these threads became even funnier as a result. You already know what points he's going to attempt to make, since he's been dragging out the same argument over and over again no matter how many times it gets disproven. So now it's just a stream of posts blowing his arguments out of the water, uninterrupted by his feeble efforts to pretend that all of the counterpoints don't exist.

Actually I've been having a similar experience with it.

 

[maverick4]

You seem to forget that Belichick is the one with the final say. If he felt that McDaniels was an issue, he'd have taken over the offense much like he took over the defense from Mangini.

Belichick gave Mangini tons of leeway most of that season even though the on-field defensive performance was terrible, until very late into the season. This shows you how much autonomy he gives his coordinators, even with BB's background/expertise in defense. In McDaniels' case, he's been blessed with superior talent and Tom Brady, which makes it VERY hard to not produce.

However, because of the on field adjustments that Brady and the receivers are expected to make, there could be any number of different plays run from the same formation.

And yet you still can't do the math. It's very easy to figure out and see that when we are in shotgun formation, we very often PASS the ball. It makes it very easy for defenders to just sprint up field and pass rush whenever they see us lined up in shot gun.

I bet that you believed it when that nitwit from ESPN claimed "They hate their coach" after the 2003 opener when the Pats lost to the Bills as well.

Yet more making up crap and baseless insults, because you're losing your arguments (a clear pattern from you). It's obvious I sided with the Pats and Belichick on that one, and knew Tom Jackson made up that quote.

First off, Cutler and Marshall were both cry babies.

I know Jay Cutler is a little immature baby, so what, it doesn't help your point. It still doesn't discount the lack of social grace or situational behavior on McDaniels' part. First the guy publicly denies trying to trade Cutler, then admits he was a liar, then tries to fix things with text messages instead of phone calls/meetings, then he acts like a douche in a face to face meeting saying no one is untradable (not understanding he didn't need to say that), then he backtracks again by trading him. It's not just Broncos fans, a lot of people around the country are wondering what the hell he is doing. It's not about exploring the trade in the first place, it's how he mis-handled the whole situation afterward.