Semi OT: Flores suing NFL and NYG. Texts from Bill involved in the suit.

[Tottie]

If you look at the chain it is apparent. He had the wrong Brian.

I just looked at it again and he does mention Buffalo which seems to indicate you are right.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Flores is going to have a difficult time proving discrimination unless there is a smoking gun out there. Right now, it's just a circumstantial case.
The three teams involved have a few excuses:

Giants - We were looking for an offensive minded coach because of our young QB. So if we were leaning towards hiring Daboll before the Flores interview, it's because Flores was a defensive minded coach. There was no racial animus on our part.

Broncos - Flores was a great candidate, but his record in Miami was less than appealing. Plus coming to an interview hungover shows a lack of professionalism, but not discrimination. We also hired Vance Joseph, who is black, to be our HC in the past.

Miami - We hired Flores and he just didn't produce. We gave him a shot. Also, our GM is black, so we don't discriminate as an organization.

 

[venecol]

Are you sure about that? Can you show me then and explain exactly how the Giants/Miami and other teams in the NLF have violated federal or state discriminatory laws with regards to hiring or firing? More to the point which is crucial under federal laws (ex: Title VII Civil Right Act of 1964, ADA, Age Discrimination Act, or The Pregnancy Discrimination Act) that the Giants refused to hire Flores simply because of his race or nationality vs his competencies/skill set according to the team's viewpoint on which competencies are of most importance for THEIR head coaching position, and that no other candidate was more qualified than Flores. Can you also prove to me that Flores or other minority coaches in the NFL were fired SIMPLY because of their race or nationality vs other reasons? That is the MAIN POINT and which laws cover, not if hiring practices are perfect or not.

Not an attorney, but all they have to look at is the number of potential black coaches, coordinators, ex HC in the pipeline that never get hired aside from sham interviews to get around a toothless rule created to get around these discriminatory practices.

Of the 7 openings for HCs in 2021, one was filled by a Black man. Over the previous 4 cycles, there were 27 openings, only 3 Black men became HC.

This season is another example with 9 openings, 6 have been filled by white guys. Two had SB wins.

Giants: Daboll (OC)
Bears: Matt Eberflus (DC)
Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett (OC)
Raiders: Josh McDaniels (OC, SB)
Vikings: Kevin O’Connell (OC)
Jaguars: Doug Pederson (ex HC, SB)
Saints:
Texans:
Dolphins:

Black candidates:

Todd Bowles, (DC, ex HC, SB)
Jim Caldwell (ex HC)
Brian Flores, (ex HC, SB)
Byron Leftwich (OC, SB)
Eric Bieniemy (OC, SB)
Jerod Mayo (LB coach, SB)
Leslie Frazier (DC, ex HC)
Vance Joseph (DC, ex HC)
Raheem Morris (DC, ex HC) Patrick Graham (DC)

There's a ton of experience from these black candidates, including coaching on SB winning teams and HC experience. Yet there's talk of Texans going with Josh McCown, longtime NFL QB with ZERO coaching experience.

I'm not sure this lawsuit goes anywhere given how powerful the NFL is and they'll certainly circle the wagons, but it's undeniable that black men have very little chance of being promoted.

 

[slash83]

Lost all respect for Flores.

 

[ralmat55]

https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf

Wow.
View attachment 40673

The quote above shows Belichick intended to text Brian Flores after misunderstanding the original text which said Brian Daboll was getting the job.

The alternative narrative was concocted by Bill’s Cult of the Coach apologists who want everyone to believe their hero just texted the wrong guy which we’ve all done rather than a case of a seventy year old’s senility making him misunderstand what he read and messaging the right guy to congratulate him for a job he’s not getting.

 

[FCB02062]

Adam Jones on 98.5 it's trying really hard to say coach Bill recommended Daboll for the nyg job and passed over Flores. Jones is intimating that Coach Bill is racist... this is why all media is garbage

 

[Tottie]

The quote above shows Belichick intended to text Brian Flores after misunderstanding the original text which said Brian Daboll was getting the job.

The alternative narrative was concocted by Bill’s Cult of the Coach apologists who want everyone to believe their hero just texted the wrong guy which we’ve all done rather than a case of a seventy year old’s senility making him misunderstand what he read and messaging the right guy to congratulate him for a job he’s not getting.

I agree and that's how I saw it also after a member here pointed it out a few days ago. I think Bill wanted Flores to get it but misread his information and had egg on his face after he gave him a heads up and it turned out to be wrong.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Anyway probably it was not a smart idea to text from BB

Looks what happened...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Lost all respect for Flores.

I can’t say that I lost respect for him, but I think he’s just frustrated and sometimes when you’re frustrated you make choices that are too emotional. He probably should have waited for a while to cool off before filing the lawsuit.

 

[Tottie]

Anyway probably it was not a smart idea to text from BB

Looks what happened...

He was trying to congratulate one of his former coaches. I guess no one talk to anyone in case someone files a racial lawsuit over it? I respected Flores when news first broke but not anymore. His latest comments on BB make me believe he has issues and maybe he's best off being behind the scenes as a coordinator.

 

[Patriots1993]

I must be missing something. I don't see the racism link other than he happens to be black and Daboll happens to be white? He sounds like a guy who got passed up for a job, which happens to everyone but is claiming racism. I don't get it

 

[Ring 6]

My immediate reaction is i'm a little disappointed Flo is calling out Bill here and not practicing common sense. It's obvious the Giants were doing their due diligence on Daboll after the initial Zoom.

To imply Bill intended to be part of this conspiracy to not give a Black HC an equal chance at a job is a pretty serious charge.

Speaking from experience, it is a common practice for a hiring manager to query his contacts and do some checking on a potential candidate before the final round of interviews. I wouldn't call them "reference checks" but they do serve the same purpose.

What I don't know is after the convo with Bill, did the NYG make up their minds on Daboll as HC and the Flo interview was in fact a sham.

An interview isn’t a sham until the deal is locked up. Just because they want to hire a guy doesn’t mean they are his top choice. Plus there is no way they fully decided on him before the interview.
But let’s do worst case. Zoom call they love him, BB give good recommendation, he’s the favorite and is interviewing tomorrow, with Flores set for Thursday, maybe secund choice at this point. Daboll interviews they love him. To not let him get hired by someone else they start negotiating an offer. Interviewing Flores the next day is not a sham.
These aren’t blind resumes sent in for a sales job at American Eagle. All of the candidates have a track record and reputation and the team has an idea what type of v coach they want to hire. I’m sure every team goes into the interview process with a loose ranking of candidates, otherwise they would do 100 interviews. Why was Doug Peterson denied an interview for example? Because track record and reputation led them to other candidates.

Flores is going to have a difficult time proving discrimination unless there is a smoking gun out there. Right now, it's just a circumstantial case.
The three teams involved have a few excuses:

Giants - We were looking for an offensive minded coach because of our young QB. So if we were leaning towards hiring Daboll before the Flores interview, it's because Flores was a defensive minded coach. There was no racial animus on our part.

Broncos - Flores was a great candidate, but his record in Miami was less than appealing. Plus coming to an interview hungover shows a lack of professionalism, but not discrimination. We also hired Vance Joseph, who is black, to be our HC in the past.

Miami - We hired Flores and he just didn't produce. We gave him a shot. Also, our GM is black, so we don't discriminate as an organization.

Denver was 2019 before Miami hired him, and they have disputed basically every word in his story.
Miami fired Gase after 3 years and 23-25 then Flores after 3 and 24-25.
The Giants hadn’t even interviewed Daboll at the time of that text.

But it’s not about that. It’s about a presumption that since the owners are white they are definitively racist because white=racist and a presumption that although the representation of black coaches across the positions they cited is on average higher than the % of the population that is black that the yardstick of fairness should be based upon the % of players that are black regardless of which players are interested in a career in coaching or have experience coaching. Flores has now taken a guy who by all accounts has pushed hard for diversity and given tremendous support to the black community (see jim brown comments) and labeled him part of the problem, simply because he is white and that must make him bad. It’s very sad.

I can’t wait to see the class action law suit from women petition the league to change the rules that discriminate against them because there are no female players.

 

[Ring 6]

I must be missing something. I don't see the racism link other than he happens to be black and Daboll happens to be white? He sounds like a guy who got passed up for a job, which happens to everyone but is claiming racism. I don't get it

You aren’t missing anything. Anyone white is presumptively racist and every action involving a minority is solely driven by race. Ask your kids, they are being taught this in school.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I'll repeat. 1 black NFL coach is an embarrassment

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

“I had a great experience there,” Flores said. “There’s a lot of great people in that building. There’s a reason why they’ve had so much success. I learned a lot about the game, myself, how to prepare, how to work, how to coach, how to teach. I grew exponentially when I was there. There’s a lot of things I learned. I have a lot of respect for a lot of people in that building. I have nothing but good memories there.”

So BB treated him with nothing but respect while he moved up the ranks under Bill and probably gave Miami a good referral on Flores when he got hired by the Phins. It is most likely common practice with coach and player hirings. Bill get’s a call from the Giants on a referral for Daboll another BB disciple and he gives Daboll a good referral but somehow now Flores thinks that improper on BB and the Giants part.
We can all have our opinions on the Rooney rule and whether it is a sham. Flores may have some damning evidence on Tanking payments and Tampering that the NFL may have to deal with. The more he keeps talking he is weakening his racist arguments whether they are real or not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

An interview isn’t a sham until the deal is locked up. Just because they want to hire a guy doesn’t mean they are his top choice. Plus there is no way they fully decided on him before the interview.
But let’s do worst case. Zoom call they love him, BB give good recommendation, he’s the favorite and is interviewing tomorrow, with Flores set for Thursday, maybe secund choice at this point. Daboll interviews they love him. To not let him get hired by someone else they start negotiating an offer. Interviewing Flores the next day is not a sham.
These aren’t blind resumes sent in for a sales job at American Eagle. All of the candidates have a track record and reputation and the team has an idea what type of v coach they want to hire. I’m sure every team goes into the interview process with a loose ranking of candidates, otherwise they would do 100 interviews. Why was Doug Peterson denied an interview for example? Because track record and reputation led them to other candidates.

Denver was 2019 before Miami hired him, and they have disputed basically every word in his story.
Miami fired Gase after 3 years and 23-25 then Flores after 3 and 24-25.
The Giants hadn’t even interviewed Daboll at the time of that text.

But it’s not about that. It’s about a presumption that since the owners are white they are definitively racist because white=racist and a presumption that although the representation of black coaches across the positions they cited is on average higher than the % of the population that is black that the yardstick of fairness should be based upon the % of players that are black regardless of which players are interested in a career in coaching or have experience coaching. Flores has now taken a guy who by all accounts has pushed hard for diversity and given tremendous support to the black community (see jim brown comments) and labeled him part of the problem, simply because he is white and that must make him bad. It’s very sad.

I can’t wait to see the class action law suit from women petition the league to change the rules that discriminate against them because there are no female players.

An interview is a sham if the hiring team has already made a decision prior to seeing additional candidates.

 

[venecol]

It's pretty clear most of you don't understand what this lawsuit is about. This doesn't begin and end with Flores. This is a class action suit. There's a class involved (i.e. black coaches). This is an indictment on the entire NFL, not particularly on the Giants or Broncos, but the entire system. The numbers are damning. If they can prevail the NFLs filing to toss the suit out, and they can get to discovery, they won't have any issues coming up with enough evidence to back their claims. It's a high mountain to climb, which is what makes Flores a ballsy mfer to take on the entire league. The numbers and facts don't lie. He's correct in his assessment. This has been known for a long time.

Of course, we have the typical white dudes on here that are scared shytless that their way of viewing white America is coming to an end. Get used to it.

 

[borg]

“I had a great experience there,” Flores said. “There’s a lot of great people in that building. There’s a reason why they’ve had so much success. I learned a lot about the game, myself, how to prepare, how to work, how to coach, how to teach. I grew exponentially when I was there. There’s a lot of things I learned. I have a lot of respect for a lot of people in that building. I have nothing but good memories there.”

So BB treated him with nothing but respect while he moved up the ranks under Bill and probably gave Miami a good referral on Flores when he got hired by the Phins. It is most likely common practice with coach and player hirings. Bill get’s a call from the Giants on a referral for Daboll another BB disciple and he gives Daboll a good referral but somehow now Flores thinks that improper on BB and the Giants part.
We can all have our opinions on the Rooney rule and whether it is a sham. Flores may have some damning evidence on Tanking payments and Tampering that the NFL may have to deal with. The more he keeps talking he is weakening his racist arguments whether they are real or not.

With Flores fired and no longer an AFCE thorn in Bill's side, clearly BB's next diabolical move was to expedite + ensure the removal of another AFCE thorn in his side; the man behind the curtain of an offense his team (and kids) can't stop, Brian Daboll.
Well done BB
3-D chess level maneuvering

 

[Calhoun44]

I'll repeat. 1 black NFL coach is an embarrassment

Is this true? The only black head coach is Tomlin?
That is mind-boggling. That can't be right.
I wonder what percentage of assistant coaches are black.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Is this true? The only black head coach is Tomlin?
That is mind-boggling. That can't be right.
I wonder what the percentage of assistant coaches are black?

Head coach, yes.